drew said:
When Honda wins the F1 constructors title next year in the new Honda V8, I bet we will see Honda V8's powering many of the upscale Acuras here including the next generation NSX! :smile:
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And Then?
- Thread starter MiamieNeSeX
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When Honda wins the F1 constructors title next year in the new Honda V8, I bet we will see Honda V8's powering many of the upscale Acuras here including the next generation NSX! :smile:
That is just total BS. There is absolutely NO WAY that it cost Ford 2 Bill to redisign the other door. It might have been a cost $2 bill extra to put the extra door on ALL of the hundreds of thousands or even millions of the minivans and even then it is way too ridiculous. Do YOU have any idea what a billion is?!!? If it cost even ONE billion to develop and build the Ferrari Enzo, then sell the entire production of 400 at $600k for $240 million, then the company would have lost $760 million on this car and I am sure it would have been a DEAD company. Ferrari is doing better than ever financially. One billion can buy 5000 Modenas!!!!! How do you figure?Doc C said:
Steve
Honda F1 Racing said:
I think you may be on to something.
Honda MUST have a V8 to compete in the truck industry, the large luxury sedans and also exotic sports cars. I think it is coming.
whiteNSXs said:
My sources for that information was Car and Driver in 1996 and Business Week online in 1999. The Car and Driver said that this was estimated to cost Ford 2 Bil to fix. The Business Week online was more specific and said the error cost Ford 560 Million to rectify, but cost them that much or more in the lucrative minivan sales market The Car and Driver article was an estimate and the Business week was more concrete since it was looking back on the situation after the fact. Why don't you list your sources to back up your comments??? Before you shoot your mouth off and call something BS, why don't you think before you type>??
Read what you wrote. "They said later that it cost Ford 2 billion to redesign the minivan for another door on the left side as well. My point is that if it cost that much to just engineer a sliding door and redesigning a minivan, then 8 billion for an outstanding performance car from the ground up doesn't seem to be bad at all. You gotta spend some to make some and 8 billion for a completely new car and platform is not terribly out of line in today's costs."Doc C said:
Common sense please. See the Ferrari comment. Again, 8 billion can buy you 40,000+ Modena and that sounds reasonable to you to "develop" a HSC???
What kind of "Doc" are you anyway?
Steve
Steve,
I quoted two sources about the door of the minivan. Car and driver quote was an estimate on what it would cost Ford to fix the situation. I'm assuming that they meant initial development + the $560M it cost to fix the error. Since Business Week said the $560M was what it cost to rectify the situation, I would again assume that the total would be well north of $1 billion, not to mention lost sales. Not knowing the Car and Driver article was merely an estimate, because it was written at the time it happened, I quoted what they estimated. The approx R&D would be in the 600-800 million dollar range, which is much less than the 8 billion someone mentioned on here. I concur that 8 billion would be a staggering figure for development for an NSX, but what I was saying was that it should be at least similar to if not a little more than for the design of a minivan, and what C&D had mentioned was not the original costs of development only as mentioned above. I apologize for the error of assumption and for using Car and Driver as a source. I would like to retract what I said regarding that figure.
Lastly, I don't appreciate the characterization that I somehow may be misrepresenting myself with my name on this forum. I earned my Doctorate of Dental Surgery degree and I certainly don't need any endorsement or approval from someone who is obviously lacking in social currency such as yourself.
I quoted two sources about the door of the minivan. Car and driver quote was an estimate on what it would cost Ford to fix the situation. I'm assuming that they meant initial development + the $560M it cost to fix the error. Since Business Week said the $560M was what it cost to rectify the situation, I would again assume that the total would be well north of $1 billion, not to mention lost sales. Not knowing the Car and Driver article was merely an estimate, because it was written at the time it happened, I quoted what they estimated. The approx R&D would be in the 600-800 million dollar range, which is much less than the 8 billion someone mentioned on here. I concur that 8 billion would be a staggering figure for development for an NSX, but what I was saying was that it should be at least similar to if not a little more than for the design of a minivan, and what C&D had mentioned was not the original costs of development only as mentioned above. I apologize for the error of assumption and for using Car and Driver as a source. I would like to retract what I said regarding that figure.
Lastly, I don't appreciate the characterization that I somehow may be misrepresenting myself with my name on this forum. I earned my Doctorate of Dental Surgery degree and I certainly don't need any endorsement or approval from someone who is obviously lacking in social currency such as yourself.
It can be a lot more expensive to correct such a problem, than to just plan it right the first time.
If it is anything like software engineering or home building (both of which I have experience): 1x effort to do it right the first time and 10x-50x to correct a problem that starts at the foundation.
Correcting problems in large systems can be very very expensive.
And mass producing a car is a very large system. Adding hundreds of part numbers, creating new [many $tructural] parts, retooling the line, retraining and probably re-NHTSA'ing the car. Might as well have started over...
So I suspect that fixing a large problem and creating a brand new car is not a fair comparison.
Drew
Chris,Doc C said:
I just asked you a question.
Steve
Joe,pbassjo said:
You are "someone who is obviously lacking in social currency such as myself" to know what it is. :biggrin:
Steve
I asked Jeeves:
Social Currency:
The intangible value earned from the exchange of positive human interactions.
I really did not understand the term. :redface:
Now I get it. Sorry for the hijack now back to the HSC. I doubt it will happen but hope it does.
Social Currency:
The intangible value earned from the exchange of positive human interactions.
I really did not understand the term. :redface:
Now I get it. Sorry for the hijack now back to the HSC. I doubt it will happen but hope it does.
whiteNSXs said:
Absolutely, and I just gave you an answer. Anyway, let's talk about the HSC. There has been talk about how Honda's F1 success with be related to the release of the HSC on these forums. With the FIA coming down on BAR Honda like they have, that will hurt Honda's chance even more for winning an F1 title. Will this also screw up the release of the HSC??? Don't you think Honda would release it whether it does well in F1 or not??? I mean, they are kicking ass in IRL (which is certainly not F1, but it's something anyway) and seem to dominate Toyota.
Its my view that the motives behind the development of the NSX were more about branding and less about sales in the sense that Honda wanted to prove to the world what its abilities were. And I think in that respect it was a success. One immeasureable effect the NSX has had was elevating the prestige-image of Honda . And I think the sales figures over the last 15 years would back this up.
So I say spend the 8 billion...... :biggrin:
So I say spend the 8 billion...... :biggrin:
Doc C said:
My 2 cents about the issue is that I feel Honda will not release a new NSX until they win the Constructor's in F1. To release a flagship exotic without a championship pedigree is something a company like Toyota would do. Racing purely for marketing purposes regardless of the end result. Toyota, other than this season, have been so pitiful in F1 yet they still for some unknown reason, want to release the LF-A, or whatever that monstrosity is called.
Honda race because it's within their corporate philosophy to continually challenge their engineers within the top level of motorsport, which is F1. Sure, if kicking ass in F1 will help sell a couple extra Accords, Civics, and give them the platform to introduce an awesome supercar, great! However, it's the challenge of getting to the top that drives them, not the marketing aspect. When Honda released the original NSX, they were dominating F1, and even though this season has been horrible and BAR is unlikely to win a drivers or constructors title, much less defend their 2nd place from the 2004 season, I have a good feeling about next season when they debut the new V8. Your point about IRL is true, Honda is wiping the floor but IRL is not a series that has a worldwide fan base. If anything, since the CART/IRL split, it's alienated fans more than brought them in. To debut a brand new V8 NSX hot on the heels of a Formula 1 constructor's title won with the 06' spec season V8 would be perfect :smile:
I think that waiting till they're world champions to bring out the at least 8-year-overdue new nsx is a bad business move. What if that championship doesn't come till 2009? Maybe they're waiting till the series uses the same configuration as the car they've been waiting to introduce. Hmmm. But, is it a given that F1 is definitely switching to 2.4 liters? I personally would like to see them stay more exotic and bump displacement to 3.2, and with that encourage the use of V12s. Maybe then, we could get a 4.5 liter, 12 cylinder, 9500 redline, 2800 pound, 600 horsepower world-slayer. Give us something that the other makers aren't doing. That's what they did in 1990. This time, however, it's going to take a hell of a lot more innovation; there's just too much heavy competition.
Honda indeed planned on making money with the NSX.
Original production estimates were about 7,500 units per year - and at those levels it would have been very profitable.
Original production estimates were about 7,500 units per year - and at those levels it would have been very profitable.
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