At Last NEW NSX

[Vega$ NSX]

Forgive the slang but anyone getting dissed this hard has to wake up. This thing with CR went viral big time! The fact that Honda responded so quickly let's you know it hit a sore spot.

Can someone ask Consumer Reports to diss the non-existent Acura sports car. Maybe then that will hit a sore spot as well and have Honda respond quickly to that as well and actually make one. :smile:

 

[WingZ]

Can someone ask Consumer Reports to diss the non-existent Acura sports car. Maybe then that will hit a sore spot as well and have Honda respond quickly to that as well and actually make one. :smile:

Good thought but I'm going to go with Honcho's lead on this and say "Would you want a sportscar from current Honda??". When even the Civic is no longer sporty you don't need to make a sportscar.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Good thought but I'm going to go with Honcho's lead on this and say "Would you want a sportscar from current Honda??". When even the Civic is no longer sporty you don't need to make a sportscar.

Then can someone ask Consumer Reports to diss Honda's ability to paint my house? I'm hoping that might snap them into a knee jerk reaction and respond. I've been needing to get that done, but apparently I'm below CR's radar and they haven't written an abrasive article on my house painting abilities yet so I haven't had the impetus to do so. :smile:

 

[sadlerau]

*SIGH* You know, somewhere in the bowels of Honda's engineering department there is a young engineer who grew up dreaming of the NSX, drives a DC5 Type-R and thinks back to when "Powered by Honda" used to mean something special, such as when it was emblazoned on Ayrton Senna's McLaren. He has all kinds of great ideas about how to make Hondas the standard of the world like they used to be and most of them would probably work. This guy will probably never get to be CEO and we'll never see any of his ideas. Instead we have Ito and his fleet of boring, overpriced golf carts.

But Takanobu Ito was on the NSX dsign team and is president of Honda now? So it can still happen. He has been "in power" since July 2009. I am still hopeful that he will win his battle with the bean-counters and regain lost ground for us enthusiasts. 2 years in a BIG corporation like Honda is not a long time in which to change things around. Takes more than two years to bring a new project to market don't you think?

 

[WingZ]

Then can someone ask Consumer Reports to diss Honda's ability to paint my house? I'm hoping that might snap them into a knee jerk reaction and respond. I've been needing to get that done, but apparently I'm below CR's radar and they haven't written an abrasive article on my house painting abilities yet so I haven't had the impetus to do so. :smile:

ROFLMAO!

But Takanobu Ito was on the NSX dsign team and is president of Honda now? So it can still happen. He has been "in power" since July 2009. I am still hopeful that he will win his battle with the bean-counters and regain lost ground for us enthusiasts. 2 years in a BIG corporation like Honda is not a long time in which to change things around. Takes more than two years to bring a new project to market don't you think?

Ito is the one who bragged about killing the V10 ASC/HSC. He is not the enthusiast friend! He called the LFA a dinosaur when he showed up with the CRZ at the Tokyo autoshow. He's not fighting the bean counters by a long shot. Hell the new Civic is his as he canceled the other one that was supposed to come to market for that bean counter special.

 

[WingZ]

Our Perspective... on Consumer Reports Review of the Civic LX

August 02 2011

John Mendel
Executive Vice President of Sales
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.

08/02/2011

In life, sometimes you disagree even with those for whom you have the greatest respect. And it seems as if that is what has occurred with the Consumer Reports review of the 2012 Honda Civic LX.

We have great respect for the magazine and its editors, but we fundamentally disagree with their suggestion that Civic doesn't rank among their recommended small cars. As for Consumer Reports, well, the magazine has named Civic as the "top pick" in its segment six times over the past 15 years. So, they are definitely finding fault with someone they have shown a lot of love in the past.

Interestingly, even using Consumer Reports own results, consumers can find ample reason to purchase a new 2012 Civic. The new Civic truly excels in areas that matter to small car customers, including fuel efficiency, safety, and reliability.

Consumer Reports own testing found that Civic's smooth and efficient powertrain returned "... an impressive 30 mpg overall on regular fuel and 47 mpg on the highway." Only one other compact car the magazine tested did better.
In the area of safety, the magazine pointed out that Civic has earned a class-leading 'Top Safety Pick' rating from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Further, as noted in Consumer Reports findings, the Civic excels with a long list of important safety features that are standard on all trim levels.
Civic has a stellar reliability history with Consumer Reports, and we have complete confidence that the new Civic will be a reliability leader as well. In fact, one of our plants building Civic (in Indiana) earned the top "platinum" award in the 2011 J.D. Power & Associates Initial Quality Study. So, Civic's quality and reliability story has a solid foundation.
It is also important to point out that Consumer Reports reviewed only one Civic model - the Civic LX Sedan. There are actually six different versions of Civic - the Civic Sedan (in DX, LX and EX trim levels), Civic Coupe, sporty Civic Si (Coupe and Sedan), Civic HF high fuel economy model, the Civic Natural gas, and the Civic Hybrid. Consumer Reports has indicated they also plan to test the Civic Hybrid. Customers can literally find a Civic model that meets a variety of needs and interests.

Finally, among many other very positive reviews of the Civic lineup, Motor Trend magazine recently tested eight compact cars, including Civic. The respected auto enthusiast magazine - which knows a thing or two about ride and handling - ranked Civic second among eight compact cars in the comparison drive. Many would be thrilled with this result. However, we disagree with Motor Trend as well - we think there is no better compact car than Civic.

Is the small sedan segment more competitive than ever? Without question. But in virtually every way, the completely redesigned 2012 Civic is a step forward that our customers will value and enjoy. So, while we will continue to have great respect for Consumer Reports, regarding their editors' review of the Civic LX - we will just have to agree to disagree… strenuously.

Damage control. The CR article hit hard!

 

[AR]

Well guys the same source who told me about the V10 not making emnissions told me the other day that in 2/3 year the next one is out and might be a V8. I am holding out buying a replacement for Everyone must make their own mind.

 

[willabeest]

i suggest Honda cut a deal with GM.
GM supplies chassis/body 2012 corvette, Honda designs an engine/tranny that will fit in it.
GM can call it a corvette, Honda can re-badge it as an Acura sports car, upgrade the interior a little.

this way Honda retains it's title as best engines in the world, and Honda lovers can still buy a light powerful sports car. GM gets the engine it needs and get finally to work on their mid engine vette.

lexus is left in the dust cause the vette/honda combination will be 1/2 the price but faster.:biggrin:

 

[Midnight_Raven]

i suggest Honda cut a deal with GM.
GM supplies chassis/body 2012 corvette, Honda designs an engine/tranny that will fit in it.
GM can call it a corvette, Honda can re-badge it as an Acura sports car, upgrade the interior a little.

this way Honda retains it's title as best engines in the world, and Honda lovers can still buy a light powerful sports car. GM gets the engine it needs and get finally to work on their mid engine vette.

lexus is left in the dust cause the vette/honda combination will be 1/2 the price but faster.:biggrin:

And when people finally come up to you and say "That's the new corrvette right!" Instead of the usual "No it's an Acura" you would have to say "Yeah... kind of.." lol.

 

[NSX-C2]

And when people finally come up to you and say "That's the new corrvette right!" Instead of the usual "No it's an Acura" you would have to say "Yeah... kind of.." lol.

No, you say it's a "GMonda"!

 

[Nukem]

i suggest Honda cut a deal with GM.
GM supplies chassis/body 2012 corvette, Honda designs an engine/tranny that will fit in it.
GM can call it a corvette, Honda can re-badge it as an Acura sports car, upgrade the interior a little.

this way Honda retains it's title as best engines in the world, and Honda lovers can still buy a light powerful sports car. GM gets the engine it needs and get finally to work on their mid engine vette.

lexus is left in the dust cause the vette/honda combination will be 1/2 the price but faster.:biggrin:

I wouldn't buy it. If Honda really had to stoop that low and copy/share a car with another Manufactuter then what would be the point.

 

[Honcho]

i suggest Honda cut a deal with GM.
GM supplies chassis/body 2012 corvette, Honda designs an engine/tranny that will fit in it.
GM can call it a corvette, Honda can re-badge it as an Acura sports car, upgrade the interior a little.

this way Honda retains it's title as best engines in the world, and Honda lovers can still buy a light powerful sports car. GM gets the engine it needs and get finally to work on their mid engine vette.

lexus is left in the dust cause the vette/honda combination will be 1/2 the price but faster.:biggrin:

If they wanted to do it on the cheap, Honda already has a superb off-the-shelf chassis- the NA2 NSX. In fact, it was the basis for the HSC concept sports car. Honda would only need to tweak the design to pass current NHTSA crash standards. The NA2 basic design has been shown to reliably handle 500+ hp with no issues. Honda also has a multitude of available off-the-shelf powerplants available as well- the J37A4, the V-10 from the HSV-10, the new J-series replacement with next gen hybrid, or even a V8 made from two K20 blocks. Any of these options would be far less expernsive than designing an engine from scratch. The problem here is not engineering, it is leadership and vision.

 

[Ponyboy]

...the V-10 from the HSV-10...

That engine really was a gem. 5L 90degree V10, 500+hp, 23mpg, 3 stage i-VTEC, 8500 redline, cylinder deactivation, gas guzzler exempt, and ULEV compliant.

The amount of tech to meet the power, mpg, and emissions numbers would have been amazing to behold and experience.

 

[WingZ]

That engine really was a gem. 5L 90degree V10, 500+hp, 23mpg, 3 stage i-VTEC, 8500 redline, cylinder deactivation, gas guzzler exempt, and ULEV compliant.

The amount of tech to meet the power, mpg, and emissions numbers would have been amazing to behold and experience.

Yeah :frown:

Well CR stuck their foot even deeper up Hondas junk stack

We recently announced that the redesigned 2012 Honda Civic scored too low in our tests to recommend. Each car we test must pass a threshold in road test score for it to be recommended. It’s no surprise that such a knock against a perennial top-selling small sedan generated a lot of reaction and debate. But something has often been missed in the conversation: Consumer Reports has been chronicling a decline in Honda’s design competitiveness for the last few years.

Don’t get me wrong. For the most part, Honda makes well-rounded, reliable, and fuel-efficient vehicles. Some of Honda’s products, like the Fit, Odyssey, and Ridgeline, and Acura MDX, still are near or at the top of their respective categories.

But Hondas no longer dominate our Top Picks list; as recently as 2006, Honda built five out of the 10 Top Picks. Most of their best products (Fit, Ridgeline, MDX) are older designs. In comparison, Honda’s recent track record with redesigns of some of their key products—as well as some of their all-new models—shows some disturbing trends.

Overall score Generational declines
2012 Honda Civic LX 61 Braking, fit and finish, agility
2006 Honda Civic EX 78

2011 Honda Odyssey EX-L 83 Agility, some interior materials
2005 Honda Odyssey EX-L 91

2009 Honda Pilot EX-L 74 Braking, fit and finish
2005 Honda Pilot EX-L 79

2009 Acura TL 85 Controls, steering feel
2004 Acura TL 90

2010 Honda Insight 54 n/a (new model) but scored too low to be recommended

2010 Honda CR-Z 57 n/a (new model) but scored too low to be recommended
Most of these redesigns have better fuel economy than the model they replaced. They also do well in recent, more-stringent crash tests. But there are some common shortcomings:

Stopping distances are often long.
Fit and finish is declining. More cheap-looking materials are appearing. (Toyota has been prone to this, too.)
We’ve been complaining about Honda road noise for years. While it’s improved in some of their recent products (Accord Crosstour, Odyssey), it’s still an annoyance in many of their other cars.
A long-time hallmark of Honda was that the cars were fun to drive. Even mainstream models had great steering feel and body control—both essential ingredients for driving involvement. That entertainment quality has been disappearing with each redesign. The Insight has sloppy on-limit handling with too much oversteer, despite its stability control.
Honda is stingy with standard equipment and their options structure (or lack thereof) can make it hard to get what you want. Since Honda doesn’t offer options, you usually wind up paying for other features you might not want. For example, want Bluetooth or an ambient temperature display in a Civic? Hope you don’t mind paying for a sunroof in the EX model. (Honda might be listening: They added equipment like a backup camera to lower levels of the Odyssey and Crosstour for 2012.)
As Honda (and several 2012 Civic owners) responded to our recent Civic news, their cars are often reliable, fuel efficient, and have strong resale. But steady competition means that those factors just aren’t enough. The car should be a really good car, too. We’re getting the feeling that recent Honda designs aren’t aiming at being great, but rather at being good enough. Why tell someone to spend their hard-earned money on something that’s just good enough?

Maybe part of the problem is that old assumptions are becoming blurred. A Ford Fusion is more reliable than the Accord, not to mention quieter and nicer to drive. Hyundai and Kia are building fuel-efficient and well-equipped cars at aggressive prices, and they often drive like Hondas used to. Hondas are traditionally priced at the upper end of their respective segments. Perhaps the company feels the need to become more competitive requires cost-cutting, but it isn’t reflected on their window stickers.

We hope this serves as a wake-up call for Honda and spurs the company to return to its previous excellence of making fun cars with impeccable interiors. Resting on its laurels is no recipe for long-term success.

See our complete 2012 Honda Civic road test and ratings.

—Tom Mutchler

Article link
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/08/honda-redesigns-is-the-automaker-resting-on-its-laurels.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Plus another article from auto news on the same subject
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110806/RETAIL03/110809870/1273

 

[Juice]

I feel that this is a good thing. Honda needs their ass kicked up around their ear lobes. They have ignored their base for far too long. The constant excuses have worn thin and their inability to accept criticism shows how out of touch they are with the majority of consumers.

I may buy a Honda again in the future, but I have no motivation at this point. Their lack of involvement in many forms of racing says it all. I rufuse to buy a car designed ONLY around "green" mentality.

 

[Honcho]

Yeah :frown:

Well CR stuck their foot even deeper up Hondas junk stack



Article link
http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/08/honda-redesigns-is-the-automaker-resting-on-its-laurels.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Plus another article from auto news on the same subject
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110806/RETAIL03/110809870/1273

Wow. That's a kick in the nuts. Honda deserves it though for the crap they've been peddeling lately.

 

[WingZ]

Wow. That's a kick in the nuts. Honda deserves it though for the crap they've been peddeling lately.

Yep! Gonna be some big changes at Honda. Finally finally someone has called them out and not backed down! Spot light is on. Japanese do not like to be shamed. This might actually get a decent sportscar built:wink:

 

[Swift]

thank you Tom. Thanks for calling out Honda and maybe now they realize they aren't as "sneaky" as they thought

 

[NSXrebel]

If they wanted to do it on the cheap, Honda already has a superb off-the-shelf chassis- the NA2 NSX. In fact, it was the basis for the HSC concept sports car. Honda would only need to tweak the design to pass current NHTSA crash standards. The NA2 basic design has been shown to reliably handle 500+ hp with no issues. Honda also has a multitude of available off-the-shelf powerplants available as well- the J37A4, the V-10 from the HSV-10, the new J-series replacement with next gen hybrid, or even a V8 made from two K20 blocks. Any of these options would be far less expernsive than designing an engine from scratch. The problem here is not engineering, it is leadership and vision.

That engine really was a gem. 5L 90degree V10, 500+hp, 23mpg, 3 stage i-VTEC, 8500 redline, cylinder deactivation, gas guzzler exempt, and ULEV compliant.

The amount of tech to meet the power, mpg, and emissions numbers would have been amazing to behold and experience.

I'd much rather have the 3.4L V8 they are currently using in the HSV-010 that's racing in SuperGT! It's also 500hp, 90degree, 3 stage iVtec, etc. :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[slashmatt]

i suggest Honda cut a deal with GM.
GM supplies chassis/body 2012 corvette, Honda designs an engine/tranny that will fit in it.
GM can call it a corvette, Honda can re-badge it as an Acura sports car, upgrade the interior a little.

this way Honda retains it's title as best engines in the world, and Honda lovers can still buy a light powerful sports car. GM gets the engine it needs and get finally to work on their mid engine vette.

lexus is left in the dust cause the vette/honda combination will be 1/2 the price but faster.:biggrin:

You got it backwards. I would much rather have an LS7 in an NSX than a 3.2L V6 from Honda in a Vette.

 

[N Spec]

you got it backwards. I would much rather have an ls7 in an nsx than a 3.2l v6 from honda in a vette.

fail

 

[Ponyboy]

I'd much rather have the 3.4L V8 they are currently using in the HSV-010 that's racing in SuperGT! It's also 500hp, 90degree, 3 stage iVtec, etc. :biggrin::biggrin:

Well, the C32 in the Super GT NSXs were making 500hp too but I'd still rather have that V10. Meh, really, I'd take either the V8 or V10.

Also, are you sure the 3.4L V8 is using the 3 stage i-VTEC? That third lob was for VCM in the HSV.

 

[slashmatt]

fail

Ever heard of a Mosler?

 

[N Spec]

What does Mosler have to do with Honda? What does GM have to do with Honda?

You obviously have not seen the power a simple bolt-on turbo kit can do for a 3 liter Honda V6 can dish out. Someone should tell the gentleman doing the LS7 NSX that too, although I respect his endeavor with all of the fabrications needed.

 

[Timeless1]

It's a year old article (probably the most updated) from motortrend but, it appears this will be more of the likes of a new NSX successor, notice the similarities.


http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2010/1011_honda_nsx_gets_new_lease_on_life/