• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

BaschBoost update, from MB

Yes,true a less antagonistic approach is just "a matter of opinion".As far as being impressed w/ your tuning of a 10 second 1/4 miler .Let me be clear on this drag racing just starts to become exiting @ 10's,and the NSX is hardly a drag car.Check the front cover of your February 2000 edition of Superford magazine right next to Billy Glidden's (surely you know who that is)thats "my" 8 second 1/4 miler.Yea'the larger picture in the center.And yes it says ABC Plumbing. You'll also notice the licence plate says ABC1(unlike yourself who hides your plate to remain hidden).A those trap speeds you dont even need a NHRA licence.P.S..the serious contenders around here run 8's in their honda's.I love MYNSX but it is a road race car,unless heavily modified like Adams 1600 hp NSX monster.

MYNSX

------------------
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:

Hmmmmm


1.
That was a great post.......
2.
I am an owner. (The Nsx is the least built and powerful car that I have owned and tuned) http://www.dvsracingcrew.com/images/blacknsx/index.htm
3.
Prove My Math Wrong. http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

I have extensive experience with performance...If you question my information prove me wrong. What have you tuned lately?What have you done in the performance world? Ever build a 10 second honda? didn't think so.

[This message has been edited by 4g62bt2c30a (edited 29 November 2001).]


Im going to jump in the fray here.I dont have a degree in engineering or anything but that chart that you use on that site is wrong.I plugged the numbers of my Supra in and it said that at my HP levels Id have to run 655 cc injectors.Now,my injectors are stock and the car still runs rich.The car only comes with 550 cc injectors.I believe that if Mark B says it dynos 380hp then it does.I believe it so firmly that as soon as my numbers called Ill plunk down $5600.



------------------
97 NSX-T
93 Supra TT BPU+
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
Prove My Math Wrong.

Don't misinterpret my post. I started by trying to understand where your "expert" knowledge was coming from as you've posted anonymously. I referenced my educational background as basis for my questioning of your view based solely on formulas whereas Mark has posted supporting evidence based on actual testing.

In the engineering world you're ask to show your work along with supporting evidence obtained through testing. Mark did, you haven't.

While I agree with you the injectors can be the limiting factor I question your use of .5 BSFC and the 80% duty cycle. Are these really the proper numbers to be using in your formula?

If you're stating that you're Russ or work for him then using you're own language "In most cases" the BSFC would be .50. I interpret that as pretty lose! Why don't you give us the evidence that the NSX engine BSFC is .5. Have you actually measured this "factor" on an NSX? Remember the technology and engineering that is put into the NSX engine is very high.

Also on the RC Engineering page it states for super charged engines the BSFC should be more like .55 to .60. And the NSX is a highly efficient engine compared to other NA engines and even more when compared to engines designed to be SC or turbod from the beginning. What if before the NSX engine is super charged the BSFC is lower. Wouldn't the BSFC be even lower after?

Last if I recall doesn't BSFC vary across the rpm range depending on the efficiency of the engine at a given RPM? Given the V-tec design wouldn't BSFC potentially change dramatically?

Is the duty cycle really 80% currently? I think that's another assumption that I question. I don't claim to know the answer but if you're RC Engineering I would think you should be able to answer that question for us being the injector expert promoted.

Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:

I have extensive experience with performance...If you question my information prove me wrong. What have you tuned lately?What have you done in the performance world? Ever build a 10 second honda? didn't think so.

Here's the difference. I didn't claim to be a tuning expert and dispute the evidence that was presented --> you did. You're approach is based solely on an injector formula that uses an unsubstantiated BSFC factor for a super charged NSX engine that is unsupported by actual test results. Further you're assuming the duty factor of the injector without supporting engineering documentation. So either the dyno is wrong or something in your formula is wrong. That's all I was trying convey in my post.

BTW I did some of my own quick calc in my mind and it seems that stock NSX should have a BSFC between .35 and .4 roughly

[This message has been edited by hejo (edited 29 November 2001).]

[This message has been edited by hejo (edited 29 November 2001).]
 
also in regards to mynsx.. wouldn't you think someone would block a license plate on the internet so that people that are looking at message boards and web sites to steal cars could easily find where you live by your plate? I for one could find out where you live by your plate, it's easy. Why do you think people get their cars stolen and then come onto that same message board that they talk on and say oh my car got stolen. Showing your car on the internet with your plate is like allowing a theif to pick and choose what cars he wants and with what mods the cars have since you most likely post pics with car mods then they run the plate come to your house and you're out a car... They've been doing it for years and they still are. Some of you that are saying you can use 240cc injectors to be able to run 380 WHP tell me how you are doing it because I am sure lot's of people would like to know how they can get extra fuel out of already maxed out injectors, I know that I am one of them since it doesn't add up.

:edit:
and by the way if the calculator is prehistoric I am going to stop using it to pay my bills
wink.gif


------------------
Have you seen the tailights on the new mustangs? I haven't.

[This message has been edited by primetime_vtec (edited 29 November 2001).]
 

Lud - Can you please do a search on all references to "V-tec", "V-TEC", "V-tech", "V-TECH", "VTECH", "VTEK", "vtech", "vtec", "vortech", "Vtec", or "Vtech" and change them to "VTEC" so primetime_vtec does NOT get bent out of shape. Thanks.

primetime_vtec BTW your username is in violation. It should be primetime_VTEC but if you keep up the inmature postings we'll start calling you primetime_VDEK!

[This message has been edited by hejo (edited 29 November 2001).]
 
I wasn't getting bent I was just giving you a explaination of the word VTEC. When I registered my name it wasn't allowing me to use the word VTEC in capitol letters so I used all lower case.
 
How about VEE-TEQUE?

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s
 
oooooo you've just gone too far!! hehe j/k I was just explaining to hejo the word so other people can understand that he is talking about VTEC on a engine not a cordless phone..
 
Originally posted by primetime_vtec:
When I registered my name it wasn't allowing me to use the word VTEC in capitol letters so I used all lower case.

Then why didn't you choose a different username? According to the website you so strongly advocate (having posted it in several topics on this forum), anything other than VTEC is sacrilege.
togo.gif


Quoting the website..."Capital V Capital T Capital E and Capital C. That's it. This misspelling is something that is becoming more and more prevalent as Honda trickles this technology to all models and more people buy cars utilizing VTEC technology. It's my number one biggest pet-peeve."

[This message has been edited by Exotica (edited 29 November 2001).]
 
Just so you know it's not "my" website. I do believe that you were just saying your website because I posted it, not as in saying that I am the owner of that site. I think we should get back on topic of this thread and figure out how you can get 240cc injectors to put out enough fuel to get 380 WHP, I still would like to know.
 
MYNSX you can blah blah blah all you want. I explained one of the reasons of many that people block out license plates on the internet. You can take it with a grain of salt if you wish but I can rest assure you that theives strive on attitudes like yours of not caring to take the 5 seconds to block out a license plate and posting it on the internet, trust me.
 
Originally posted by primetime_vtec:
...I think we should get back on topic of this thread and figure out how you can get 240cc injectors to put out enough fuel to get 380 WHP, I still would like to know.

And I'm still waiting for you to respond to the possibility that your assumptions about the real max capacity of the stock injectors (and by extension their require duty cycle) and the BSFC of an SC NSX may be faulty.
 
I invite the opportunity for a thief to attempt to try and get past the security systems on my vehicles.With 3 tracking devises internally,2 Rotties where they are parked, and a couple of Glocks it would be actually an exiting hunt and most humiliating experience for the poor soul that thought I didn't cross the T's and dot the I's.

------------------
 
Why does one put two air/fuel ratio gauges on the instrument deck?

-- Chris

Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:

Hmmmmm


1.
That was a great post.......
2.
I am an owner. (The Nsx is the least built and powerful car that I have owned and tuned) http://www.dvsracingcrew.com/images/blacknsx/index.htm
3.
Prove My Math Wrong. http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

I have extensive experience with performance...If you question my information prove me wrong. What have you tuned lately?What have you done in the performance world? Ever build a 10 second honda? didn't think so.

[This message has been edited by 4g62bt2c30a (edited 29 November 2001).]



------------------
SoS_logo.gif

www.ScienceofSpeed.com - Click for more info
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:

I have just noticed in the deletion on the posts how one sided this topic has become. I would like to hear from the the people who are also involved.Grouppe M ,Comtech, NSX Modified.....Where are you ????????? In you HUGE experience with these cars what do you think of this topic? Was the wheel re-invented????? or not....Please clarify....Is it all possible.... How did you miss all that horsepower??????

Cheers,
Corey

Sorry guys, but I decided not to participate in this thread, for two reasons. First, there are already too many misrepresentations made and perpetrated, and secondly, there are also a few sensitive souls who will continue to believe what they want to believe no matter what others may say.

However, the entertainment value is priceless, so carry on! :)

Thanks for the invitation, Corey.

Best regards,

Alex
 
Originally posted by GruppeMUSA:
Sorry guys, but I decided not to participate in this thread, for two reasons. First, there are already too many misrepresentations made and perpetrated, and secondly, there are also a few sensitive souls who will continue to believe what they want to believe no matter what others may say.

However, the entertainment value is priceless, so carry on! :)

Thanks for the invitation, Corey.

Best regards,

Alex

I've tried to read between the lines, but I'm still not sure what this means except that you won't give us the benefit of your knowledge. Some simple comments from you, factual or simply sharing your observations, would be quite valuable.
 
I find it very interesting that the only people who are trying to use numbers to prove me wrong, no- lets call it what it is- prove me DECEITFULL- are the people who have already decided that I am full of s---. Reminds me of the politicians who use numbers and formulas and statistics to prove ridiculous theorys about all sorts of things we know to be bogus. With all due respect to Russ Collins, he is a motorcycle guru, and his stated formulas do not cover every situation. As a few have mentioned already, not every engine fits into every formula and the engines FURTHEST from the formulas seem to all be Honda engines. Can any of my detractors explain in good soid engineering form, why Honda engines get anywhere from 15 to 40 per cent more power from a cubic liter than Ford or GM besides the obvious diffrence in redlines? I would love to hear it. Do you understand anything about volumetric or thermal effiency? Formulas are starting points, nothing more. If we took the formulas quoted here and tried to stuff all of our project cars into them, most would not fit just like the Supra example quoted above.
I am not going to reveal everything here, at least not today. I don't have to, and it would weaken my position in the market, not strengthen it. I already have more orders than I can fill, from people who know and trust me, and if you think "that doesn't sound like Mark", Mark is getting very tired of people who are pretending to care about the community buying a product that may not be as advertised when their only real concern is whether or not the success of my product may be in the best interest of their friends and associates.
But for those of you who have a genuine interest in this, let me just say this- as so many have mentioned, the reason for their trust in me is my experience with SC's. I have installed almost 50 NSX SC's and what I do know is that CompTech uses the exact same voltage inverter that I do (guess that's backwards) and we have never had a fuel pump failure in at least 300 kits. Comptech also runs the basic kit (which is 95% of those sold) at 88 to 90 psi, and we have never had an injector failure. I do not believe another 2 to 4 pounds is going to be any different. When you all talk about running too close to max ratings and duty cycles, you must remember that the engine is actually in the boost mode less than 2 per cent of its life. There is NO boost in the engine at all except when the pedal is almost to the floor. Nothing at cruise, idle, or normal accel. And lastly, for now, to the common comment about paying a few dollars more for a better pump and injectors-it is not about money- it is about reliability and availabilty. There are no injectors available from Honda that meet the requirements we have, except possibly the JDM injectors that come with the Gruppe M kit, and since I turned them onto the p/n, with the CT hi-boost kit. These injectors are too big, and you must cut the fuel pressure way back to use them. If fuel pressure should increase from this number say because of an FMU failure, the engine would die a slow death from cylinder wash- I have witnessed this myself. I do not choose to use injectors from an aftermarket sourse because they fail too often compared to Honda injectors and I won't accept that. Cruise the Integra and Civic boards and read about the failurs of injectors from some of these companies you are so full of.
And lastly, lastly, I am not in this myself. I am working with two other tuners, as well as, twenty five minutes from now Nick is dropping off his beta tester at one of the most prestigious fuel mgmt computer builders in Ca, to have fitted the "black box" of OUR design, for install and initial calibration, then he is driving straight to Phoenix for another long night at the dyno, before a long day at Firebird tomorrow for track testing. MJ's CC 3.2 beta tester will also be fitted by midnight with the same black box and will also be running at Firebird tomorrow along with at least 15 NSX's that I have modified and maintain. I wish some of you nay-sayers would leave the safety of your keyboards and come into the trenches with me, and MJ, and Nick, and BZ, and Chris, and all the others who are out here in the real world using their pride and joy NSX's along side MY pride and joy VERYRED, finding out where fromula's end and the real world starts, and most important, where the fun is.
And lastly, lastly, lastly, I get a lot of mail this week asking why I don't jump in here more to defend myself- I just don't have the time- see previous paragraph.

The "kit" is not yet in its final form. The parts listed on the sites offering them for sale are the current 'minimum' parts that will be used. If anything listed gets dropped from the final kit, everyone who has placed an order will certainly be notified and they can cancel if they like. As I have said over and over, the kit is not for sale untill I am completely impressed with it. If you have to have an SC now- I still sell CT and GM SC's, if you really want to spend 10 grand. I could use the money. (G)

Cheers,
Mark Basch
 
sjs wrote:

"If I had the Basch system in it's present state I would not rely on my stock fuel pump especially if it has many miles on it. (Note, just because you can supply 100+ psi with more voltage doesn't mean it can sustain anywhere near that under full throttle) The one in my 93 was totally incapable of such demands, pressure or volume, even with the resistor out. I considered a voltage up-converter but found a new killer pump was 1/2 the price and I didn't need to worry about an already weak pump being worked to death, eventually taking my engine with it."

Sjs,
Mark B. measures the fuel pressure under full throttle conditions (on the dyno and on the road), so I believe that the stock NSX fuel pump (supplied with 20V) is up to the task (90+ psi).

You mentioned your "93", is this an NSX? Do you have any flow rate vs. pressure data for the stock pump that you can share with us that prompted you to replace the pump? This kind of data is hard to find, unless one is willing to perform the test themselves or pay a company like RC Engineering to perform the test.

Can you post the part number and supplier of the new pump that you installed? I assume that it installs the same place as the stock pump (ie. in the tank)?

Regards,
Bryan Zublin

------------------
Zublin Engineering
http://www.zublin.com
 
Originally posted by ScienceofSpeed:
Why does one put two air/fuel ratio gauges on the instrument deck?

-- Chris




I would guess that it is to monitor each of the two stock O2 sensors.

Bryan Zublin

------------------
Zublin Engineering
http://www.zublin.com
 
Originally posted by 4g62bt2c30a:
Prove My Math Wrong. http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

Can you please be more specific? For the sake of discussion and education, can you please tell us how (what numbers did you use and in which fields did you put them and/or which formula did you use) you came to the conclusion that the Basch SC 100rwhp claim and resulting dyno sheets may be suspect. I’m not trying to be a jerk about this; I just want to learn more about all this fuel management stuff, and to prove someone’s math right or wrong, one first needs to see the math <g>.

I believe that there MAY be a good argument that 100rwhp gain with stock injectors is implausible or at the very least, pushing the safety envelope, but I have yet to see this good argument--only abrasive comebacks and pedantic sidebars by those who make this claim. By the evidence (dyno plots), Mark B’s 100rwhp claim seems to be real and repeatable—and to claim that these charts are somehow untruthful is an injustice to some very honest, knowledgeable and hardworking people. Comically, one of the posters who claimed these dyno plots to be suspect didn’t even know how to read a dyno chart! (that post has since been deleted)

Therefore (for academic reasons only), out with the numbers and formula guys!

DanO

P.S. Continuing on with this thread is primarily academic because Mark B settled things earlier in this thread when he said: “It allows for almost double the fuel pressure and quantity, not by formulae- but by testing.

Again: “NOT BY FORMULAE – BUT BY TESTING” (emphasis added) <g>

Now, it may be fun trying to figure out what numbers and/or formula do not match the real world.
 
Sorry guys, but I decided not to participate in this thread, for two reasons. First, there are already too many misrepresentations made and perpetrated, and secondly, there are also a few sensitive souls who will continue to believe what they want to believe no matter what others may say.

I don't blame you, Alex.

If everyone in the NSX community behaved as belligerently as some of the posts on this topic, I would have left the forums long ago.
 
Back
Top