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Bbsc install by Payne technologies

I thought the valve cover vent topic was better understood by now. I’ve posted on this at length in the past but I’ll give my take on it again.

First off, it sounds as though some of you are routing things in such a way that the front cover vent is routed to the pressure side of the intake. That does not seem to be a wise approach since it effectively plugs the vent whenever you are on boost.

The reason oil gets pushed out the vent in the extreme cases experienced by some people is not blow-by as such, although blow-by will exacerbate the problem. What happens is that sustained high lateral G’s can slow the drainage of oil from the head down to the pan. Oil flowing to the head can be “pinned” against one end of the valve cover then tossed to the other end, etc., with less than normal making it to the drain passages down. Remember that the V design of the engine means that the passages are “ramps“, not vertical passages, which may also slow the downward flow under G’s, especially acceleration in the case of the rear bank. So at the track you are at constant high RPM and therefore oil pumping volume. Occasionally at the track you gat just the right combination of moves to trap enough oil in the rear cover that it swamps the vent holes in the baffle (underside of the valve cover. see pick in my old post.) and gets up into the baffle itself, where only air and gasses were meant to be. Once there it has no easy way out, but as you continue around the corners is finds it’s way to the end with the exit vent and “belch” out it goes.

Why do we see this only (or at least mostly) with forced induction cars? It is important to first understand the stock venting design of the crankcase. It is designed to allow air to flow in the front cover, down to the crankcase, then up to the rear cover, and out that vent to the intake, taking “normal“ amounts of blow-by gasses along with it. (later cars flow in the opposite direction) That flow is aided by the inherent light vacuum effect where the rear vent connects to the intake. The fumes are sucked out of the crankcase and back to combustion with the front cover vent providing fresh replacement air and allowing for even mild vacuum to be enough. Even without emissions concerns the crankcase must be ventilated or it will pressurize, reducing power and blowing the dipstick through the engine cover. J

OK, now we add forced induction and can’t leave the rear vent connected to the stock location because it would be pressurized. Most people just route them both to a catch can, but that means you no longer have the “positive” aspect of the crankcase ventilation. And consequently more of the normal pressure is allowed to build up. Add to that the fact that you are burning more fuel which generates higher cylinder pressures than a normally aspirated car and even at normal leak-down figures you are forcing more gasses into an inadequately vented crankcase. The result is a pulsing of pressure at the vents. Once you get some oil trapped up in the baffle and it finds it’s way around to the vent tube, it gets expelled with some force.

If you find my old post you will see where I recommended drilling additional holes in the baffle to allow trapped oil to return to the head. Subsequently someone else (Gerry J. I think) said that he had some the same thing and solved the problem. Of course, the real problems are still there, oil collecting in the top of the engine rather than draining down, and poor ventilation of the crankcase, but at least the expulsion of oil into the engine compartment or even a catch-tank can be fixed, and the need for drains from there back to the dipstick or pan largely unnecessary.
 
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Devin, nice beads above...

sjs is on the money above, re: cc ventilation. The oil is getting trapped in the valve covers. I have a fresh motor, and blow-by was a problem, esp. at the track. I have run a hose loop from the rear valve cover port to the front one, around the perimeter of the engine compartment, with a vent bottle with breather in-line to allow pressure to equalize. Also, eliminate Pcv valve. If you make the vent loop independent of the intake system (you should), you don't need a check valve. Problem solved. Important points: don't allow any passage from your intake side to the valve covers. Cap all the ports on the intake manifold/throttle body. find a way to allow pressure to vent/ the crankcase must breathe. Find a way to capture and drain oil that will naturally escape from the valve cover vents.

Another problem solved: adding oil. After chasing my oil fill cap out from under my motor more than once (seems a common affliction!), and also having my PCV valve out, I discovered that the tip of a skinny funnel will fit that port (front valve cover) just fine. So, I add oil by pulling off my cc vent hose and sticking the skinny funnel tube in. You gotta pour the oil slowly, but it's much easier than dealing with the damn oil fill cap!
 
the nsxnut said:
I have run a hose loop from the rear valve cover port to the front one, around the perimeter of the engine compartment, with a vent bottle with breather in-line to allow pressure to equalize.
Mark, are you saying you don't think the baffle mod is necessary? I would think that is just as important, and maybe more so, as it would allow trapped oil a way to drain back down.
 
Gene, I don't disagree that the baffle mod is a good idea; oil in the pan is more useful than oil in the valve cover, no doubt. But, like most of us, I only have 24 hours a day to use up, and I just haven't gotten to that item on my list that says, 'remove rear valve cover and modify vent port' ;) . I def. will one day, but, for now, the post above describes how I solved my escaping oil problem.

Anecdotal evidence: Before solving the problem: at a track day at Road Atlanta (LOTS of high g-load right turns), after puking up enough oil to really aggravate me (all over the engine compartment), I took off the rear vent tube and capped the port, to prevent any oil from venting. Next session, I had to pit with a CEL for 'rear VTEC switch overpressure', whatever code that was. It was the trapped oil in the valve cover. Took off the cap, ran a tube to a damn plastic drink bottle duct taped to my strut bar, and the CEL went away...

Ah, the joys of forced induction... I think of it as 'excruciatingly gratifying'. And, all you arm chair quarterbacks and wannabees, be assured this is not a BBSC issue, it affects all FI applications at the track.
 
My bad. ;) I guess I just assumed from your post that you thought the solution did not warrant baffle mods. I do understand the 24 hr per day thing.
 
Very nice. Tubi looks to be fitting perfectly. ;)
 
The intake hose from the air filter to the Novi appears to be the same as the stock hose, correct? This is the first picture that I have seen of a BBSC installation that actually connects the crankcase vent pipe instead of having it vent directly to the atmosphere.
 
No doubt, Devin is a real pro, but note that there is the potential for oil to be vented into the blower, potentially fouling the impeller. Consider that in the upper rev range, that port will be exposed to a considerable amount of vacuum, possibly enough to actually suck oil from the valve cover...
 
the nsxnut said:
No doubt, Devin is a real pro, but note that there is the potential for oil to be vented into the blower, potentially fouling the impeller. Consider that in the upper rev range, that port will be exposed to a considerable amount of vacuum, possibly enough to actually suck oil from the valve cover...

I wanted to test a theory I had based on several calls and emails I recieved last week. Brian and I will be testing several urban legends on the dyno and post the results. I'm sure he'll end up with a catch can similar to most of the cars we've done.
 
We are trying different things that have been talked about here on prime, to see how what differences they make on the dyno and how the car runs.
In the end we know what set up we want, and how to achieve it.
But we want to start off small and dyno every change to the car to see what can be achieved.
That includes the vvis mod.
The intake hose from the air filter to the Novi, was sent with the BBSC kit. :eek:
Mine is still attached to my air box.
You might see little things that are not done yet, but there are reasons for that we have a different plan for the long run.

The elbow that is coming off the blower and going to the intake, Devin had to fab up because the wrong one was sent. :confused:
If you notice the rest of the BBSC is polished except that piece,
that's because we are going to add a polished intercooler later.

Later Brian.
 
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Brian and I had quite some fun on the dyno today. We finally got a chance to spend some time tuning and testing several theories that have surfaced lately on prime. The results were interesting to say the least.

I will let him spill the beans as to numbers. In the meantime, I am going to compare some more data and will post all of the dyno graphs on Monday morning.
 
I got 363hp on the first run, and 358.hp on the next one.
6lb pully, Comptech headers, with a Tubi, 500 injectors.
I don't know the A/F chart you will have to wait for Devin to post it.
He did tune it so it was safe to drive everyday.
You could tune some more hp out of it if you wanted to risk it.

I know this post is worthless without pics. :p

The sad part is I haven't drove it yet, with all this snow we have its kind of hard.

I am going to have to get use too that wine of the blower.

We also did the vvis thing, it didn't make more than a couple of hp difference.
 
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the nsxnut said:
Ah, the joys of forced induction... I think of it as 'excruciatingly gratifying'. And, all you arm chair quarterbacks and wannabees, be assured this is not a BBSC issue, it affects all FI applications at the track.

Correction, Mark-O!
This does NOT affect the Comptech Supercharger. :p
 
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The car N/A as it came in the door vs. BBSC with Comptech headers and AEM EMS


brian_hp.jpg


Air/Fuel trace data. Knowing that Brian is going to beat the daylights out of his car on several cross-country "runs" this year (not to mention he is not using an aftercooler yet), I tuned a little on the rich side for safety with an added bit of fuel nearing redline. This graph is the 6th tuning run on the dyno.

brian_af.jpg


All runs are SAE corrected graphs. We also checked and corrected temp, humidity, and baro pressure each run.

I would have to bet there is 15 to 20 hp left in her considering the timing advance values and conservative air/fuels, but I would give that up any day in exchange for a bad phone call from Brian explaining he is half way across the country and pieces of NSX engine bits got run over by the 360 Modena chasing him.

Tomorrow I will post up some more "interesting" graphs later in the day including our VVIS testing and more.
 
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Payne nsx, did your catch can work out. Did you place a check valve in the oil return line. I ended up with larger vent lines and made a oil seperator to clean the oil mist from the vent air. The car has only been on the track for three laps and it seemed to work correctly. Now I want to run the vent back to the turbo compressor intake. Dan
 
Didn't install the catch can yet. Tested the car on the dyno using the factory routing for the rear vent line to intake and front PCV line to the manifold with an inline check. We looking for oiling in the lines and intake tube using the factory PCV setup while on the dyno. There were NO oil traces anywhere proving nothing so far I guess. We will be installing a catch can regardless.
 
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