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Big lips going out?

Let me give examples of what I mean. They're extreme examples to illustrate my point.

10" wide rim. +75 offset. 1.5" thick spokes. You have approximately .5" lip in front, and 8" "lip" in back of the face.

Another 10" wide rim. -75 offset. Still the same 1.5" spokes. You have a gigantic 8" lip in front, and .5" lip in back of the face.

How is the rim that has the lip in front of the face weaker than the rim that has the lip in the back of the face?

As for the garbage can analogy... it doesn't matter if the bottom of the can was pushed way out to the top, it'd still be easy to bend on the other side. So moving the bottom "disc" of the garbage can to the top doesn't make the can any stronger. It just moves the weak end to the opposite end.

J
 
Even better, imagine a wheel that can be mounted from either side of the face. It has a 1" lip on one side of the face and a 6" lip on the other side of the face. Mount the rim with the 1" lip exposed. Fine. Now flip the rim around and mount it so that the 6" lip is exposed. Now it's weak?

J
 
We can only hope :smile:
 
i guess then all you have to do is flip the stock wheels backwards and save yourself 4 grand.:cool:
 
What would you guys do if running Sorcery widebody rear? I am really likeing wheels like on the new camaro. They are wide but the design is concaved, instead of deep lipped. As far as aftermarket Lambo, Porsche etc...with big lips, they get caught up in the trend crap, just like we do. Alot of these really deep lips are for bling bling factor...even on highend cars like Astonmartin, Ferrari, etc....Think about it, everytime you enlarge the size say 17 to 19 on rear wheels, you are slowing down the car by changing the gear ratio. If we really wanted a ultimate NSX, we would go back to the 15/16 oem setup. I don't like the smaller look, just thought to throw that in there. Anyway, I like the concave, but wide rear wheels. Who makes them? Maybe a 5 or 7 spoke. Any ideas? Sorry too much coffee.....:rolleyes:
 
Brent,

I had my ride how you explained. I had envisioned the flush concaved look without the large lip. A deal led me with a decent LIP. The car stands nicely since the NSX ass end lacks J LO. I say go for it. I love the look standing in front of the car how it V's out in shape. I do not honestly think the LIP thing is going out but designs in a new wheel direction has shown less lip but what manufacture has ever done a large lip on a completely stock car? As for the market in terms of the title of the thread, everyones preference differs.

do it, you live once!:biggrin:

Gil
 
Texas91Brent said:
Anyway, I like the concave, but wide rear wheels. Who makes them? Maybe a 5 or 7 spoke. Any ideas? Sorry too much coffee.....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Volk TE37 19" is concave compare to 18x8. a 19x9.5 TE37 definitely is a contender. Bunch of wheels are out recently with concave look and some are inexpensive. Tenzo R and 5-zigen have JDM good tuner design.

Talk about concave. I just got these on my W220 S-class.
MRR wheels 20x8.5 20x9.5 staggered concaved dish.
IMG_0088%5B1%5D.jpg
 
OEM's typically follow the aftermarket but there is a long lag so you might be seeing OEM's doing something that was done long ago, now its just finally in production. Really, the statement that a trend is changing is too general. Talking about the import market, domestic or what?

Big difference in tastes between many sub-markets. Just a thought.

James
 
swerve said:
i guess then all you have to do is flip the stock wheels backwards and save yourself 4 grand.:cool:
Click to expand...

No way I'd ever do that, even if I could. Because then it would have a massive lip and, according to you, it would then be weaker than if I mounted it the other way.:confused: :cool: :confused: :cool:
 
02#154 said:
Well, if comparing forged to cast... this is something I could understand. But just to say that a bigger lip is weaker or inferior in some way just based on the pure fact that it's bigger is what I don't understand.

J
Click to expand...


?? huh? It wasnt me who said the bigger lip is weaker and inferior...

Overall- trends will come and go...such as colored lips, matching this and that, spinners...but the original large lip design will always stay "in".
 
Re: Big lips going out? NEVER

FeetFxr said:
I think big lips suck...but I like that! :biggrin: :biggrin:
<a href="http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2644028410103321564VeKwdz"><img src="http://inlinethumb25.webshots.com/42264/2644028410103321564S425x425Q85.jpg" alt="Sexy20lips1"></a>
Click to expand...
Let's hijack this thread.....
ss_blonde_lips4.jpg
 
we use to flip the lip on epsilons in the 80's but that was to put it on a Mazda B2200 mini truck.

you have to deal with valve stem in the inside. but you get a massion 5" lip.

like this.
2096759_7_full.jpg
 
Show me one (performance) car that comes/came with big lip wheels from the factory - thats right, they never do, so I dont think your argument holds up.

Deep dish wheels has always been an aftermarket treat.
 
5inchfatlip said:
?? huh? It wasnt me who said the bigger lip is weaker and inferior...

Overall- trends will come and go...such as colored lips, matching this and that, spinners...but the original large lip design will always stay "in".
Click to expand...

Yeah, you didn't... my bad. I owe you a beer. Sorry.

So... can anyone explain the claims made by a couple of the members at the top of this thread? (Not necessarily you, fatlip, but anyone.) At this point, until someone can explain why a lip in the back is fine but a lip in front is weaker, I'm going to have to call BS.

Oh, and hey, Erick those are some sick looking wheels there by Rays. I wish I could fit those on my NSX... those F1 cars have all the luck...:biggrin:

J
 
structurely the lip is more vulnerable to bending because it has a vertical 90 deg tire edge that buckles on impact more so than the rest of the wheel which has equal tire around it to distrbute the impact forces.
 
also, it is not correct to compare cast/forged wheels to multi-piece ones like ones on the f40 or examples above. multi-piece wheels' hoops are formed by rolling which is the only way to produce a strong lip without the weight penalty as it basically stretches the metal unidirectionally without stresses and voids present in casting and forging. so unless you have a multi-piece wheel your cast/forged example will be weaker.


i'll take it a step further- the area you call the 'back lip' is in fact the weakest part of the wheel, by adding another weak area in the 'front' of the wheel and thinning out the spoke-attachment-area to make room for the aformentioned new lip can't exactly add to the wheel's strength. so unless you have a high-dollar multi-piece wheel that has forged disc and rolled hoop and with the added benefit of additional stress/impact absorption provided by the bolts, you have either a heavier wheel or weaker wheel as compared to a conventional counterpart.

you can call it b/s, i call it bending moment.
 
Its all coming down now to Concave and offsets. I think before the trend for everyone was getting the most lip they could fit. Now the year end trend and more of a game would be the concave and the exact flush fitment of your offset. People are pushing it to the limits on what they can and i like they way its going cause its pushing the limits and making new visions of the scene.
 
docjohn said:
structurely the lip is more vulnerable to bending because it has a vertical 90 deg tire edge that buckles on impact more so than the rest of the wheel which has equal tire around it to distrbute the impact forces.
Click to expand...

I agree with you completely... but I'd like to also note that there is a lip in back of the wheel which is subject to the same exact forces as the outer lip.

swerve said:
the area you call the 'back lip' is in fact the weakest part of the wheel
Click to expand...

What makes you say this? What makes the backside of a wheel inherently the weakest? What if the face of the wheel was mounted to the barrel in such a way that it had only a 1/2" lip, leaving the front of the wheel with a 8" lip? That .5" lip is weakest? I think your statement is over-generalizing, or more likely, incorrect.

swerve said:
by adding another weak area in the 'front' of the wheel and thinning out the spoke-attachment-area to make room for the aformentioned new lip can't exactly add to the wheel's strength
Click to expand...

Who's talking about thinning out the spoke attachment area? When you change offsets you don't change anything about the spoke attachment area... you just move the attachment area toward the front or back of the wheel.

swerve said:
so unless you have a high-dollar multi-piece wheel that has forged disc and rolled hoop and with the added benefit of additional stress/impact absorption provided by the bolts, you have either a heavier wheel or weaker wheel as compared to a conventional counterpart.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about forged vs cast or multi-piece vs single-piece or anything vs anything. All I'm talking about is this statement:

"Big lips come with big risks. Manufacturers probably don't want to keep replacing bent rims all the time."

and this statement:

"generally wide-lipped wheels are weaker."

All things equal (forged vs. forged, multi-piece vs. multi-piece, etc.) how can a bigger lip make a weaker rim?

Is a Volk GT-C with a +43 offset is stronger than a Volk GT-C with a +30 offset? Or is a Volk TE37 with a +43 offset is weaker than a Volk TE37 with a +30 offset?

J
 

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