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Business Opinions Needed

HTN

Experienced Member
Joined
2 September 2007
Messages
862
Location
FL.
The Real Estate market has been quite tough to say the least. I have been in this industry for the past 10 years and I have not seen anything of this nature. It has affected many of my personal friends and clients. I have been very fortunate with the position that I am in with stocking away $$$ during the great years. Our company is doing quite well even in this slow market. I am 32 years old and not very happy with just sitting here and feeling helpless about the current situation.
I have been pondering and really thought about another business idea while weathering the storm of R.E.
I know that there are some really smart business people on this forum that perhaps can enlighten me or shed some ideas. Any opinions are greatly appreciated.

TIA
 
????

what are you looking for?? peoples opinions on a business venture/idea that you have?

or do you want people to give you ideas on how to make money in real estate now?
 
????

what are you looking for?? peoples opinions on a business venture/idea that you have?

or do you want people to give you ideas on how to make money in real estate now?

A new or related business venture. Basically another cash cow. Thanks
 
What's your background, e.g. education? Interests, etc?

Do you want to maintain your real estate position and do something part time or full time? How capital intensive do you want to be?

Sorry for nothing but questions.
 
Right now most of my investors/clients are switching over to rehabs. I know it's not ideal... but the process has come a long way in the last decade or so.

Detroit is a "HotBed" for rehabs right now because they are trying to rehab the whole city and they are basically giving houses away. You can literally buy a house in Detroit for less than a grand. Now, that wouldn't be ideal because those are uninhabitable and need extensive rehab... but those are where you're going to find the biggest margins. We are currently working with a lender who specializes in rehabs and basically handles the process for you. Here's how it works...

The lender finds rehab properties themselves (they have a list you can choose from). Here's one that we did earlier this year... Lender bought a rehab property in Detroit for $24k. We bought it from the lender at $37k. The lender also loans on the money for the rehab. We put in $12k for the rehab over a 3 month period. Once rehab is done, the prop appraises for $110k. Now you can refi into a more conventional loan, pull out some of the equity if you'd like (we pulled out $20k), and put a renter in the rehab to make it "cash flow". Now, you can either play "landlord" and have a cashflow property for however long you want, or if you left enough equity in the rehab, flip it to another investor who would gladly scoop it up as a "cash flow property" WITH a renter!

A few details to keep in mind...

1) The original loan is HARD MONEY. so rates are going to be high. We were paying approx $900 a month on $37k. But it was only for a few months.

2) Investor must have good credit, but they are pretty loose with the lending on these properties.

3)Initial deposits are required for the properties. Once you have established a relationship with the lender, and shown some fortitude, they will lend without rechecking credit and deposits will be lessened.

4)If you don't want to be deeply involved on the project, the lender has contractors lined up for everything (it's in their best interest to have good contractors because it's their money).

5) All monies paid for rehab are paid up front by the investor and reimbursed as they are paid (just show proof with cancelled checks or receipts).


With the above example, once refi'd into a conventional loan our payments are at about $500 and it rents now for $750. Cash flow of $250 a month... with equity still in the property. It's not a lot, but do a few of these and you could potentially have a cash flow of $1000 a month for doing alomost nothing (once the rehabs are done). Also, in this case... I've never seen the house (except for pictures) :biggrin:
 
Right now most of my investors/clients are switching over to rehabs. I know it's not ideal... but the process has come a long way in the last decade or so.

Detroit is a "HotBed" for rehabs right now because they are trying to rehab the whole city and they are basically giving houses away. You can literally buy a house in Detroit for less than a grand. Now, that wouldn't be ideal because those are uninhabitable and need extensive rehab... but those are where you're going to find the biggest margins. We are currently working with a lender who specializes in rehabs and basically handles the process for you. Here's how it works...

The lender finds rehab properties themselves (they have a list you can choose from). Here's one that we did earlier this year... Lender bought a rehab property in Detroit for $24k. We bought it from the lender at $37k. The lender also loans on the money for the rehab. We put in $12k for the rehab over a 3 month period. Once rehab is done, the prop appraises for $110k. Now you can refi into a more conventional loan, pull out some of the equity if you'd like (we pulled out $20k), and put a renter in the rehab to make it "cash flow". Now, you can either play "landlord" and have a cashflow property for however long you want, or if you left enough equity in the rehab, flip it to another investor who would gladly scoop it up as a "cash flow property" WITH a renter!

A few details to keep in mind...

1) The original loan is HARD MONEY. so rates are going to be high. We were paying approx $900 a month on $37k. But it was only for a few months.

2) Investor must have good credit, but they are pretty loose with the lending on these properties.

3)Initial deposits are required for the properties. Once you have established a relationship with the lender, and shown some fortitude, they will lend without rechecking credit and deposits will be lessened.

4)If you don't want to be deeply involved on the project, the lender has contractors lined up for everything (it's in their best interest to have good contractors because it's their money).

5) All monies paid for rehab are paid up front by the investor and reimbursed as they are paid (just show proof with cancelled checks or receipts).


With the above example, once refi'd into a conventional loan our payments are at about $500 and it rents now for $750. Cash flow of $250 a month... with equity still in the property. It's not a lot, but do a few of these and you could potentially have a cash flow of $1000 a month for doing alomost nothing (once the rehabs are done). Also, in this case... I've never seen the house (except for pictures) :biggrin:

We do the exact same thing but now the financing has changed. The only loans available are 70 LTV and you must have a score of 700 or better. We have several properties done and ready to refi but the investors can't get favorable financing . I myself just came out 18k short on the last property in refi..ed, IOW I have 18k more into the property than I was able to get out and my credit score is just a few points from being perfect. This is not that much problem for me as the property generates 1500 a month and the loan and taxes are only 548 a month with a total investment at 18k and a loan of 46k. I am happy with those numbers. The part that makes me the happiest is those numbers will not change but the rents will go up. In 5-10 years that thing will be a cash cow BIGTIME!

A good example of that anything I bought 5-10 years ago, some of them I have more than doubled the rent. One of my favorites is a 4 plex I bought for 42k and the rents were 350 a month. Now those rents are 700 or better each and my expenses have risen very little.

The market for all types of RE has changed. I expect prices to adjust downward because of the lack of qualified buyers left to loan to. The only way to make $ in the game at this point is to have 60% of the LTV wrapped up in the final product and a appraiser who does his job.

It looks like in your example your investors have ~50k tied up for a $250.00 cash flow after mortgage and taxes but before expenses?

For 45K our properties are returning 900 a month before expenses.

68k gets a 1600 a month gross. The numbers are good and will only get better as property prices come down.
 
It looks like in your example your investors have ~50k tied up for a $250.00 cash flow after mortgage and taxes but before expenses?

For 45K our properties are returning 900 a month before expenses.

68k gets a 1600 a month gross. The numbers are good and will only get better as property prices come down.

In my examples the investor is investing VERY LITTLE of his/her own money. Basically just the Initial Deposit which is based on the value of the property, so the only money that is tied up is the ID, which is returned at COE. As far as the cash flow rates go, I was giving bare minimums so as not to overinflate and disappoint the investors if numbers don't come out as good as expected. I have several properties that cash flow over $1,000 a month, some of which I have attained through this lender.

Also remember that the initial loan is Hard Money, and you would need to refi into a conventional loan. right now it is damn near impossible to get financed on anything unless you have a 700+ score and full doc with a 2 year history. But, the same lender that is doing the hard money loans can also refi you into a conventional loan. Seeing as they give you the Hard Money Loan, they know what you are doing, so it is not impossible to get financed with them, it's what they do. Most of these loans are decent rates and they will allow you to do a "cash out refi" up to 80% LTV. Now if you want to start talking REAL cash flow numbers... we can get into "multi-units" :biggrin:
 
I can always count on you 2 to speak up.
Thanks sharing.
Any other thoughts will greatly be appreciated as I have learned so much from others.

Bob... I will be in Corona this Friday for 1 day and will fly out to S.E Asia.
If I have some free time, I'll contact you.
 
Just my two cents in two words since I see you are in florida!


PROPERTY MANAGEMENT!!

From what I have found it is a great market for pm's down there. I recently picked up a new never lived in house in ft myers and have spoken with several pm's down there and since there is nothing or next to nothing selling that is the only way to make any money thats worth it. Most pm's I spoke with are getting 10% monthly to manage the properties. Since there are literally thousands of vacant homes there and renter coming out of the woodwork its a good time to be a pm...

I am actually looking into forming a pm company in the ft. myers area and am looking for investors. If interested let me know. What part of Florida are you in?
 
In my examples the investor is investing VERY LITTLE of his/her own money. Basically just the Initial Deposit which is based on the value of the property, so the only money that is tied up is the ID, which is returned at COE. As far as the cash flow rates go, I was giving bare minimums so as not to overinflate and disappoint the investors if numbers don't come out as good as expected. I have several properties that cash flow over $1,000 a month, some of which I have attained through this lender.

Also remember that the initial loan is Hard Money, and you would need to refi into a conventional loan. right now it is damn near impossible to get financed on anything unless you have a 700+ score and full doc with a 2 year history. But, the same lender that is doing the hard money loans can also refi you into a conventional loan. Seeing as they give you the Hard Money Loan, they know what you are doing, so it is not impossible to get financed with them, it's what they do. Most of these loans are decent rates and they will allow you to do a "cash out refi" up to 80% LTV. Now if you want to start talking REAL cash flow numbers... we can get into "multi-units" :biggrin:

There are a number of rehab lenders out there that will lend 85-100% of the total project cost, including interest, points, and closing costs. I know of a couple that will lend up to 75% of the after repaired value. Of course it is a hard money loan with higher rates, but the repayment of this loan begins after 6 months - you can conceivably be finished with the renovations at that time and be ready to switch into conventional financing. The lenders that I know of do not help find property for investors - that's up to you. But I estimate that their rates are about 1/2 of what you're paying.

I am surprised that you are able to do this in Detroit. I'm not surprised that you are able to find bargains out there, but rather you are able to rent them out after you are completed with the renovations. Do you have a reliable property management company to deal with the screening/renting/collection? I would be wary of doing the same if I did not have contacts in the city to check on my property. Since reselling rehab property in Detroit may not be feasible at this time, I'd think that the most important part of this equation is finding good management and tenants as you may be holding this property for awhile. I guess if you can find someone like steveny to help you manage your property out there, you'll be fine.

If this property is a long term hold (using your first example), then $250 a month cash flow before expenses (management, vacancy, repairs) is not very much. You will likely end up spending this money in the future for said expenses. However, if you're able to cash out a good amount of money first, I guess this is perfectly acceptable.

If you're able to find rehab property that you can cash out some equity AND cash flow $1000 a month, then that sounds like a great opportunity.
 
I'll ditto (or maybe assert..) the great opportunities in buying Real Estate right now.. ESPECIALLY the Detroit market.

If you look at the graphs of the Real Estate appreciation for the last 30 years (too lazy to look for them), you'll find that Real Estate has increased linearly most years, and even in the downtimes - such as the early 80's - it was flat in many areas, or minues a few percentage points. I don't know anywhere it was over 10 or 15% or so, but it could have been. After that down period of a few years, Real Estate skyrocketed and made lost ground within a few years.

This is especially true in Detroit, and I think it will be the case again. Buy Detroit! I want to.. I just don't have enough know-abouts of the actual market or anyone there that can do the homework for me...
 
Just my two cents in two words since I see you are in florida!


PROPERTY MANAGEMENT!!

From what I have found it is a great market for pm's down there. I recently picked up a new never lived in house in ft myers and have spoken with several pm's down there and since there is nothing or next to nothing selling that is the only way to make any money thats worth it. Most pm's I spoke with are getting 10% monthly to manage the properties. Since there are literally thousands of vacant homes there and renter coming out of the woodwork its a good time to be a pm...

I am actually looking into forming a pm company in the ft. myers area and am looking for investors. If interested let me know. What part of Florida are you in?

We do handle some property management,mostly my personal rentals and some for close clients. Commercial leasing is a great avenue as well...less Head Ache. Let me know if you would like to do something in the Tampa area.
Thanks for chiming in.
 
I'll ditto (or maybe assert..) the great opportunities in buying Real Estate right now.. ESPECIALLY the Detroit market.

If you look at the graphs of the Real Estate appreciation for the last 30 years (too lazy to look for them), you'll find that Real Estate has increased linearly most years, and even in the downtimes - such as the early 80's - it was flat in many areas, or minues a few percentage points. I don't know anywhere it was over 10 or 15% or so, but it could have been. After that down period of a few years, Real Estate skyrocketed and made lost ground within a few years.

This is especially true in Detroit, and I think it will be the case again. Buy Detroit! I want to.. I just don't have enough know-abouts of the actual market or anyone there that can do the homework for me...

I like your spirit my friend. You are correct about the past and how quickly it can make up for lost time.
 
www.thebabychef.com

I have a business idea for you. The Baby Chef is an invention that my wife came up with. We have filed a patent application, and have had an engineering company build a prototype. Unfortunately, we don't have the money to mass produce so we are shopping the product out to companies hoping that a company will "buy" the idea from us and pay us royalties on sales. We just need someone to pick this up and mass produce it so that my wife and I can retire and live off royalties :smile:
 
www.thebabychef.com

I have a business idea for you. The Baby Chef is an invention that my wife came up with. We have filed a patent application, and have had an engineering company build a prototype. Unfortunately, we don't have the money to mass produce so we are shopping the product out to companies hoping that a company will "buy" the idea from us and pay us royalties on sales. We just need someone to pick this up and mass produce it so that my wife and I can retire and live off royalties :smile:

Charley,
What a brilliant idea? I personally would buy it, if I have a baby or 2. I see this being very marketable. Have you both been actively marketing it to the big guys? Big Congrats on getting it this far. Most people including myself will have an idea, but never execute it to prototype.

Have you done any market research on this bad boy? I can see you and your wife next to a bottle of Corona by the beach already.:biggrin:
 
Most people including myself will have an idea, but never execute it to prototype.


Tell me about it. I have spril notebooks full of great ideas but no follow through yet. My last idea I think I will follow through on because it really is the best idea I have had to date.

I sure wish Honda would come up with a great idea, like building a new NSX.
 
I sure wish Honda would come up with a great idea, like building a new NSX.[/QUOTE]

LOL.

Steve... you should think about getting a Babychef from Charley.
 
I sure wish Honda would come up with a great idea, like building a new NSX.

LOL.

Steve... you should think about getting a Babychef from Charley.[/QUOTE]

I sent one to Honda so they can put 2 old NSX's in their and get one new improved NSX out the other side.
 
If you are a really fast learner, a good people oriented person, and have good business sense try your hand in sales. Sales can be quite lucrative and it is only limited to your own abilities and willingness. Also, sales is less about experience and education and more about how quickly you can learn and adapt. It could be a great way to supplement your income. However, the key is to not go for the run of the mill sales positions (i.e. retail, insurance etc.) It will be small income for a cutthroat environment. The key is to get your foot in more obscure, niche sales positions. Certain medical, software and engineering sales positions make crazy good money and have high demand because their industries are often overlooked.
 
If you are a really fast learner, a good people oriented person, and have good business sense try your hand in sales. Sales can be quite lucrative and it is only limited to your own abilities and willingness. Also, sales is less about experience and education and more about how quickly you can learn and adapt. It could be a great way to supplement your income. However, the key is to not go for the run of the mill sales positions (i.e. retail, insurance etc.) It will be small income for a cutthroat environment. The key is to get your foot in more obscure, niche sales positions. Certain medical, software and engineering sales positions make crazy good money and have high demand because their industries are often overlooked.

You're speaking my language Vegas. Being in Real Estate sales for 10 years can really take a toll on you,especially the mental part.:biggrin:
That's why I have been scratching my head like a monkey and try to think of something new.
You are absolutely right on the niche part. Thanks for the suggestions... May I ask if you are also in sales? If so, what industry?
Thanks for the tips.
 
HTN: If you're willing to spend the time to know the industry, Web Development and even SEO seem to be lucrative sectors in todays economy. Craigslist.org's "gigs" section is teeming with individuals who need a website done &/or looking for expanded marketability for their product/service.
 
HTN: If you're willing to spend the time to know the industry, Web Development and even SEO seem to be lucrative sectors in todays economy. Craigslist.org's "gigs" section is teeming with individuals who need a website done &/or looking for expanded marketability for their product/service.

SEO is huge in my industry. Every company wants to be the first to pop up. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
If you build me a new NSX I will buy it from you. Hell I will even buy the 2nd one too.

Steve,
By the time I'm done building you one, you'll be asking me to add a super charger on your walker.:biggrin:
 
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