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Camber/Toe/etc. settings for track use?


Performance/track focused:
(at the slight sacrifice of street tire wear)

Camber:
Front: -2* to -2.5* -3.0* could work too with corresponding setup.
Rear: -2.5* to -3*

Toe:
Front: 0-2mm OUT
Rear: 0-4mm IN


Tire Pressure:

COLD:
Front:32psi
Rear: 32psi

HOT:
Front: 35-40psi (35psi for max front grip, 40psi if the car oversteers too much to induce understeer)
Rear: 36psi (for max grip).

Just as a datapoint, I'm running somewhere in the scope this alignment range:

Camber: -2.0F / -2.5R
Toe: 0.3 OUT F / 0.2 IN R

This results in a pretty neutral car on either 215/255 or 235/275 aggressive street tires (Dunlop Z1 / Nitto NT05). The following data was collected at CMP In February after a cool-down lap, so the outer edges would have cooled slightly more than the inners, and these are not peak temps but give a good relative picture at the tire usage: (Note, CMP is a significantly righ-handed track, so the left tires get abused quite a bit more than the rights)

Tire temps:

Session 1: (cold, morning, pressure = 35psi all the way around at the time measurements were taken...so close to "hot" pressure)

RF:
Inside 101
Middle 97
Outside 85

LF:
Inside 98
Middle 96
Outside 92

RR:
Inside 125
Middle 119
Outside 103

LR:
Inside 119
Middle 113
Outside 110


Skipping to Session 3: (~15 degrees warmer ambient, full sun, ~37psi)

RF:
Inside 115
Middle 110
Outside 100

LF:
Inside 119
Middle 119
Outside 112

RR:
Inside 137
Middle 137
Outside 133

LR:
Inside 140
Middle 140
Outside 134
 
How how was it that day?

You're not getting ANY heat into those fronts in the first session, and only the second session were the rears near 'warm'. I think operating temp for street tires is in the 160-220 range.

I would suggest not doing a cooldown lap, or if you do -go as fast as you can without using the brakes much (or go 10/10ths through the corners) until you come in to get a more accurate read. Your LF splits are also very even. Typically shooting for a 30* spread with the insides being hotter is a good starting point so I might say you could use more front camber, but then again you're not getting the fronts up to temp so I might take that back.

What spring rates were you running?
 
It was pretty cold. 45-50 in the morning and low 70s at most in the afternoon, so I suspect the temps dropped quite a bit from their peaks to when I took the measurements.

During the afternoon runs, the rears were starting to get "squidgy" by the end of the 15 minute session, the fronts still felt good. That's been typical in subsequent events: my rears give up from overheating quicker than the fronts. I've only rarely ended up in an understeer, but more often have to pay attention to where the rear end wants to go.

So you're saying a 30 degree spread HOT is actually better than an even spread? Could you elaborate a bit on why that is? I *think* I have adjustment room for more camber in the front, but would have to stick my head under the car to be sure I don't have that backwards (e.g. I'm at the max vs the min adjustment)

I'm on KWs with 343# springs all around and some adjustable swaybars (Dali type Q, full soft in front, 2nd hole from full soft rear).
 
So you're saying a 30 degree spread HOT is actually better than an even spread? Could you elaborate a bit on why that is?

Because of toe, the inside edges of the tire are scrubbing even when the car is going down the straights, etc.
 
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Because of toe, the inside edges of the tire are scrubbing even when the car is going down the straights, etc.

:witless: Derp. That makes so much sense it hurts, lol.

I may see how much room I've got left and dial in a few more tenths of a degree up front if possible before I'm down there again in a few weeks.
 
The goal and what determines your ideal camber is to evenly load the entire surface of the tire under steady-state cornering. Your ideal camber will change due to any changes to the: Spring rate, swaybar rate, center of gravity, roll centers, etc...

If you are on a steady-state skidpad for a really long time, come off the track and measure it, your ideal camber would show even tire temps. For track use where there are long straights and heavy braking zones, the straights cool off the outer edges of the tires and the brake zones work the inner part of the tire a lot. This means that over the course of a lap, the inside of the tire will generally wear out sooner but to create the most grip in the turn, the tire will be loaded evenly through the corners.

Through trial and error, it's generally accepted to shoot for a 30*F tire spread with the insides being hotter.

For a DD/weekend toy, it may be worth giving up some grip for tire longevity and run less camber.
 
The settings quoted below what are these measured in?

degrees for camber and mm for toe?

For beginners:

Camber:
Front: -1.0* EDIT: -0.5* would probably be better for beginners with -1.5* rear camber
Rear: -1.5*

Toe:
Front: 2mm OUT
Rear: 4-5mm IN



For most people (settings on my personal car):

Camber:
Front: -1.5* (which is probably close to the max you can get given stock constraints)
Rear: -2.5*

Toe:
Front: 2mm OUT
Rear: 2-3mm IN


Performance/track focused:
(at the slight sacrifice of street tire wear)

Camber:
Front: -2* to -2.5* -3.0* could work too with corresponding setup.
Rear: -2.5* to -3*

Toe:
Front: 0-2mm OUT
Rear: 0-4mm IN


Tire Pressure:

COLD:
Front:32psi
Rear: 32psi

HOT:
Front: 35-40psi (35psi for max front grip, 40psi if the car oversteers too much to induce understeer)
Rear: 36psi (for max grip).


*Last weekend before my trip to Vegas/Spring Mountain - I set my tire pressures on my Bridgestone RE01R tires for street use at 36psi all around, I forgot to lower them and on track they were great for a few laps but then the car got VERY loose/oversteering. When I came in the fronts were at 40psi and the rears were at 43-45psi! As street/R-comps get above 40psi, they lose a lot of grip. I suggest keeping them ~36-38psi.



EDIT: *******Keep in mind these are general, ballpark settings. The "perfect" setting will depend on a variety of variables from tire size, compound, wheel size/offset, suspension, spring rates, swaybars, weight, weight distribution, power, downforce, etc.. In short, a TIRE PYROMETER (Probe Type) is a great investment along with a good tire pressure gauge to further dial in your setup. I dislike umbrella statements but the above should be a decent rough guideline, but will vary depending on your setup.

- - - Updated - - -

Also to add to that what about caster settings?
 
This is totally off topic but am I the only one that always sees "Camel Toe" whenever I quickly glance through the main forum page. I always do a double take and realize it's this thread lol.

Besides that I would like to add there is some good info in this thread. :D
 
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LOL.... Camber Toe. Camel toe... not that different. But you need to lay off those other websites.
 
Hello,

This sunday I tried my new A048 tires with

Rear : A048 285x30x18
Camber : -2°50'
TOE : 4mm IN
37PSI HOT
Too much Camber, my outside tire never touch the gravel :D

I think to reduce my Camber to -2°10.


My old tires was Federal RSR595 285x30x18 with the same setting, and my outside tire touch the gravel, and after 1 lap, the tire was too hot, the A048 is beautifull.
 
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