CCColtsicehockey 2002 Black/Black NSX Build

[cccoltsicehockey]

You still got one of the best looking cars on here! Also, it's not like you got ripped off or anything. Sounds like you paid a fair price if not still a good price considering everything. It runs great, feels great, and looks great...

As @I_M_Legend mentioned, you got a good looking car and based on your test drive, sounds like it is in decent shape.
You got the right mind set. Now you can enjoy the car without worrying too much about it, unlike the 1K mile $100++ museum pieces that may depreciate if you take it outside.

Years ago I bought a frame damaged sports car. There were a few little problems, but overall a good car and kept it for 9 years as my daily. I did take it auto crossing a few times and it was a champ dodging the cones.
Perhaps give that a shot before taking it to a track since autocross is at a lower speed and generally has wider run offs if the worst should happen. Plus, there are more twist and turns which will be a good test on your frame before you take it to a track.

I do not know if the following is common practice or if will even work. I'm thinking out-side the box here. One idea is to get a paint pen and make some reference lines on key points of the frame (similar to torque stripes on bolts and nuts) With witness marks, you might see if anything has moved. Sometimes things move under stress and return to their resting/home position when you park for an inspection. The paint marks may show cracks and this could direct your attention for deeper investigation.

The more scientific method is to put a bunch of strain gauges to quantify any stresses. However, you will need another car with a similar setup so you have something to reference to. Now, I think I'm really outside the box. Where is my coffee mug?

Thank you both for the kind words. Definitely do love the looks of the car. Puts a smile on my face every time I look at it even with the issues she has.
[MENTION=32903]natcc99[/MENTION] I might have to give an AutoX a shot as I have never done one before. Your right it is probably a better test at safer speeds that a track day. It did past a hard test at the dragon but still wasn't pushing my hardest since I had only had the car two weeks and it is my first mid engine car.

Don't know if I will get into that scientific of testing but definitely going to do the paint pen marks at several different locations.

 

[natcc99]

I am not sure how much damage or repair work was performed. Fixing aluminum is tricky, but has been done before. So it's not new territory.

Here is an extreme example of a frame being repaired. Go to the 8:50 mark for extreme case. He was trying to un-do a twist in the frame, but the section broke off. He ended up welding new pieces afterwards.
https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/t...-to-rebuild-a-destroyed-lamborghini-gallardo/

With that said, if you see any welds, check for cracks.

For auto crossing, just make sure the course does not have any light poles or curbs. The ones at a small airport are the best. Enjoy and happy motoring!

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

So the floor mats in this thing have been bugging me for a while. They are not in terrible condition carpet wise but the NSX stitching is almost all worn off so they look terrible. With replacement mats being between $300-400. I chose to go with Zanardi red and black mats because I can't decide if I am going to do a red interior conversion or not so I don't want to buy standard mats yet so these will look good for a while and tie in with my Nardi wheel till I make that decision.



Not looking so hot

The replacements

Slightly different shape. They fit a little tighter widthwise in the car.

Apparently, when the car was repaired they never removed the plastic under the floor mats. I hadn't bothered to either since picking the car up but I did now.

The security tab for these mats needed to be moved from the left to the right

Looks much better now

 

[natcc99]

Nice, the red and black theme matches your steering wheel.

Interesting to see that the anchor moved.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Been a long time since an update. I also had basically stopped driving the car for almost 3 months earlier this year. It had developed an oil leak and even on short drives, the car would have smoke coming out the back of the engine bay. Obviously, this meant that somewhere oil was dripping on some part of the exhaust.

Car got awful dirty just sitting.

Removed the engine cover for easier access.

All open now.

Removed the rear diffuser to get better access below.

Borrowed a horoscope from a friend to try and get a better look in tight spots. I need to buy one of these eventually but hopefully these days someone makes one with a little higher resolution.

This is what I believe is where my rear valve cover leak is

The problem is I do not believe that is the only leak the car has. There is just too much oil in other places to all having been coming from there. The car had a very slight oil leak from the oil pan when I bought it. The leak was not near the exhaust and it was so minor at the time that I could just wipe the seepage off when I did an oil change and once in between changes and everything was fine. It wasn't worth the time to drop the front header. It might now be time to tackle that next. I believe this is coming down from the oil pan.

A third leak I believe is coming from the cam seals for the cam gears. Oil is leaking out fo the plastic timing belt cover and then down the oil cooler line.

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I cleaned up everything as much as possible to try and help determine the other leaks.

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Oil ended up leaking again from the cam seal/timing belt side.

So with that, it was time to at least replace the rear bank valve cover gasket and see if that fixed some things. I knew there was only a little space in the back but damn is the rear bank a pain to work on.

Cover off. It looks nice and clean.
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The engine looks clean as well.

Timing belt looks good as well which was nice to be able to get a peek at since it was suggested by me from a reputable shop that with as low miles as the car has on it that I should go to 10 years instead of changing it right now.

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New gasket with Honda bond prior to reinstall. Many choice words were spoke during the resinstall and it took me 8 tries to finally get the cover back on and in place.

So far so good and no leak on the cam plug side.

So once I put the car back together and drove it in small 5 mile drives I had smoke for about 15miles. After that, it was gone. I figured this was the residual oil that has built up in the heat shield of the rear manifold. Being overly cautious I then proceeded on three more 5 mile increment drives and stopping to check for smoke. Then increased to 10 miles, 15 miles, and 20 miles. After that, I figured for the time being at least I was good. Not sure if it is the valve cover completely or cause I cleaned up all the oil. I still have a leak from the oil pan and a little bit of oil again coming from the timing belt cover area. They seem to be slow and if I keep up with keeping them clean they should not cause me issues of smoking again hopefully. They do not seem to be leaking fast enough at all to cause an issue with my oil level either. This past Friday I took the car from Charlotte to Asheville and back with no issues. It was nice to do a day trip in it again.

Shot from before the car started smoking.

First longerish drive after the repair. Stopped at my dads place.

​​​​​​​Asheville road trip from Friday.
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[Big McLargeHuge]

Such a cool car, I just went through the whole thread for the first time since your update brought it to the top again. Really makes me want to take more road trips up to NC in mine as well since your pics look so good :biggrin:. Black must be so annoying to keep clean.

I know it's been a long time, but to answer your below question if you haven't gotten one already, yes there is supposed to be an upper shift linkage cover there. I think you would be looking for this (https://honda-europe.epc-data.com/nsx/2000_6mt/21550/transmission/M__1600/?p=2&fromMap=1) since I think you have a 6-speed. Would help prevent water and other crap from getting on the linkages.

Question #1 - Anyone know if there is supposed to be a cover panel here that I am missing. It kind of looks like it but I couldn't be sure.

A third leak I believe is coming from the cam seals for the cam gears. Oil is leaking out fo the plastic timing belt cover and then down the oil cooler line.

New gasket with Honda bond prior to reinstall. Many choice words were spoke during the resinstall and it took me 8 tries to finally get the cover back on and in place.

Couldn't help but notice, in your above pics it looks like the oil pan has taken quite the bonk to the underside. Since you say you have a pan gasket leak, you might consider getting a new pan or straightening that one out when you go to replace the gasket since the clearance between the bottom and oil pickup tube is so small. Also reference this thread (http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/213589-Oil-Pan-Gasket-Leak) for good discussion.

Have you considered using a UV oil dye to help see where leaks are coming from? Since you just cleaned everything up it might be useful. I do agree on the timing belt side of things, maybe you could plan for a TP/WP service soon to take care of the potential cam seal issues at the same time. VTEC solenoid gaskets are another common leak point.

For the rear valve cover, you can rotate it 90 degrees when you're shoving it below the rear trunk lid and rotate it back once it's nearly in position to help get the clearance for it to fit right.

I hope you post more updates soon, wishing you good luck for getting the shitty accident damage thing sorted. Don't let it stop you from enjoying your car.

 

[MotorMouth93]

Yeah that oil pan is definitely smashed into the pickup, mine was way less dented than that and was causing a noticeable drop in oil pressure at idle.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Thank you. I have not gotten around to replacing that piece yet so do appreciate the link. Interesting you posted a link for a European site for the part. It actually appears even with the shipping it can be had for cheaper than ordering it through a US dealership which is kind of sad. The only issue is it says estimated delivery Sept-Oct. Now that I have the part though I will shop around for one.

Yes the previous owner definitely must have hit something as it was that way when I bought it but I was aware of it. Whenever, I plan to do the gasket I want to get a new or used good condition pan and have SO baffle system installed in it just for safety. Definitely will check out that thread before doing the work.

I have not considered UV oil dye but that isn't a bad idea. Not something I have ever used before but it sounds like it would just be simply missed in at next oil change. The one thing that I have not ruled out yet is when I did this oil change I switched from Mobile 1 to Penzoil Ultra Platinum after reading good things about it on here. I had also tried it in another car and it seemed to run thinner than the oil in that car too even though it was the same weight. My oil pressure was always low until I switched back in that car to the Redline I had been running in it before. Maybe I will either go back to Mobile 1 or switch to Redline as it is what I run in both my other cars that are boosted.

I used the 90 degree rotation method I just might not have been moving it far enough back before rotating. The part I was always having trouble was getting the cover over the rear drivers side bolt for the cover.

When you say you agree on the timing belt side of things you mean you think the timing belt looks fine and waiting till 10 years doesn't seem an issue on a car that only has 42k miles on it at this point? The plan would be maybe to try and limp everything along till like 2022 at this point and then have a major refresh done on things like the timing belt, water pump, oil pan gasket, vtec solenoid gaskets (they appear fine right now I can't feel any oil around them), radiator hoses, and any other part that should be done around the 20 year age point which it will be then.

I have given up on repairing the accident damage in the engine bay. Most likely won't be worth the cost. The damage I found in the rear that I thought were cracks if they are they have not moved from when I marked them with a paint pen at all so I think they are possibly just poorly repaired as well or just cracks in the seam sealer. I won't be putting the EVAP system in either. I can unplug the plugged hose I realized when I fill the gas tank and it pumps just fine. Then re-plug it and go about my business.

I will definitely keep things updated.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Yeah that oil pan is definitely smashed into the pickup, mine was way less dented than that and was causing a noticeable drop in oil pressure at idle.

What was your oil pressure at idle? I was worried about that when I first got the car but when I drive it everything seems to be showing at the right gauge pressure from what I have read on the forum. It sits right at 2 or a hair below at a fully hot idle.

 

[Big McLargeHuge]

Thank you. I have not gotten around to replacing that piece yet so do appreciate the link. Interesting you posted a link for a European site for the part. It actually appears even with the shipping it can be had for cheaper than ordering it through a US dealership which is kind of sad. The only issue is it says estimated delivery Sept-Oct. Now that I have the part though I will shop around for one.

Yes the previous owner definitely must have hit something as it was that way when I bought it but I was aware of it. Whenever, I plan to do the gasket I want to get a new or used good condition pan and have SO baffle system installed in it just for safety. Definitely will check out that thread before doing the work.

I have not considered UV oil dye but that isn't a bad idea. Not something I have ever used before but it sounds like it would just be simply missed in at next oil change. The one thing that I have not ruled out yet is when I did this oil change I switched from Mobile 1 to Penzoil Ultra Platinum after reading good things about it on here. I had also tried it in another car and it seemed to run thinner than the oil in that car too even though it was the same weight. My oil pressure was always low until I switched back in that car to the Redline I had been running in it before. Maybe I will either go back to Mobile 1 or switch to Redline as it is what I run in both my other cars that are boosted.

I used the 90 degree rotation method I just might not have been moving it far enough back before rotating. The part I was always having trouble was getting the cover over the rear drivers side bolt for the cover.

When you say you agree on the timing belt side of things you mean you think the timing belt looks fine and waiting till 10 years doesn't seem an issue on a car that only has 42k miles on it at this point? The plan would be maybe to try and limp everything along till like 2022 at this point and then have a major refresh done on things like the timing belt, water pump, oil pan gasket, vtec solenoid gaskets (they appear fine right now I can't feel any oil around them), radiator hoses, and any other part that should be done around the 20 year age point which it will be then.

I have given up on repairing the accident damage in the engine bay. Most likely won't be worth the cost. The damage I found in the rear that I thought were cracks if they are they have not moved from when I marked them with a paint pen at all so I think they are possibly just poorly repaired as well or just cracks in the seam sealer. I won't be putting the EVAP system in either. I can unplug the plugged hose I realized when I fill the gas tank and it pumps just fine. Then re-plug it and go about my business.

I will definitely keep things updated.

Of course. The European link still leads to Amayama which is by far my personal preference for new OEM parts. It all comes from their Japan suppliers & warehouse, prices for most items are much cheaper than anything in the US. Currently however you'll have to pay extra for Fedex or DHL shipping since Japan Post/EMS is not delivering to the US anymore (and USPS is completely useless at this).

The estimated delivery on their site is a function of availability & your chosen shipping option, anything that says longer than "6d waiting from supplier" means it's not in stock yet, and shipping defaults to Japan Post which adds 2-3 months. If you choose Fedex/DHL you should get it within 1-2 weeks so I ignore their "Delivered to you by" date. For a part that's <=6 days wait and with Fedex, time between ordering and arriving at my door is normally ~2 weeks. I almost never order parts in the US if I can afford to wait.

I just had SoS baffles welded in my new pan the other week and redid the gasket, I think it was a worthwhile job especially for regular spirited driving.

I haven't used UV dye before either but it's an idea. You can pour it in at any time and keep it in until your next oil change, just have to drive around for a while to let the oil have a chance to leak out to see the dye. Haven't messed with types of oil yet, I just use Mobil 1 and fix any leaks I get as long as it doesn't involve more than a few hours of work.

By the timing side thing I meant that it looks like that's where an oil leak is coming from, unfortunately not supposed to be possible to tell the condition of the belt visually. I've seen some people say up to 10 years on a belt is fine, some say 7 years, Honda's changed their mind on it before. Really up to you whether you want to do it soon or not, I haven't heard of many belts breaking but usually things like the water pump pulley can seize or the harmonic balancer rubber separates. I had planned to drop the engine on my car in a year or two to do everything you listed, but had no prior service history to go from so I did the TB/WP myself recently which was a massive pain lol.

For oil pressure readings I'd rather have a digital gauge readout (or in-line Bourdon gauge) than rely on the factory cluster gauge, the resolution & accuracy aren't supposed to be too great.

Sorry about the damage. Maybe there's another solution for rerouting the vapors to an aftermarket canister or something so you don't have to open the hatch whenever you fill up for gas.

 

[MotorMouth93]

The factory gauge is more or less useless, you need a real pressure gauge to get any accurate information about oil pressure. An NSX should see around 18-20psi at idle and mine was at 13-15psi, as measured with an AEM electronic sensor. The service manual specs 10psi at idle but that's BS as no healthy C3x motor will be that low.

The the oil pickup has about 1/8 inch clearance with the bottom of the pan, if the pan is dented more than that that then they are touching.

Edit: The Cedar Ridge Fabrication baffle is much nicer than the SoS baffle and cheaper too.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

Of course. The European link still leads to Amayama which is by far my personal preference for new OEM parts. It all comes from their Japan suppliers & warehouse, prices for most items are much cheaper than anything in the US. Currently however you'll have to pay extra for Fedex or DHL shipping since Japan Post/EMS is not delivering to the US anymore (and USPS is completely useless at this).

The estimated delivery on their site is a function of availability & your chosen shipping option, anything that says longer than "6d waiting from supplier" means it's not in stock yet, and shipping defaults to Japan Post which adds 2-3 months. If you choose Fedex/DHL you should get it within 1-2 weeks so I ignore their "Delivered to you by" date. For a part that's <=6 days wait and with Fedex, time between ordering and arriving at my door is normally ~2 weeks. I almost never order parts in the US if I can afford to wait.

I just had SoS baffles welded in my new pan the other week and redid the gasket, I think it was a worthwhile job especially for regular spirited driving.

I haven't used UV dye before either but it's an idea. You can pour it in at any time and keep it in until your next oil change, just have to drive around for a while to let the oil have a chance to leak out to see the dye. Haven't messed with types of oil yet, I just use Mobil 1 and fix any leaks I get as long as it doesn't involve more than a few hours of work.

By the timing side thing I meant that it looks like that's where an oil leak is coming from, unfortunately not supposed to be possible to tell the condition of the belt visually. I've seen some people say up to 10 years on a belt is fine, some say 7 years, Honda's changed their mind on it before. Really up to you whether you want to do it soon or not, I haven't heard of many belts breaking but usually things like the water pump pulley can seize or the harmonic balancer rubber separates. I had planned to drop the engine on my car in a year or two to do everything you listed, but had no prior service history to go from so I did the TB/WP myself recently which was a massive pain lol.

For oil pressure readings I'd rather have a digital gauge readout (or in-line Bourdon gauge) than rely on the factory cluster gauge, the resolution & accuracy aren't supposed to be too great.

Sorry about the damage. Maybe there's another solution for rerouting the vapors to an aftermarket canister or something so you don't have to open the hatch whenever you fill up for gas.

Really good information on all that for parts. Had no idea they had stopped JapanPost/EMS during all of this. I have used it a bunch in the past for parts. I will have to checkout the cost of doing it via Fedex then.

UV dye then sounds simple enough. Might give that ago then here in a bit.

Yeah definitely figure it is a good safety measure while it is a apart. Maybe will check out the cost of a new oil pan from that site as well since I have not been able to find a used one recently.

I at least know the service history of when the timing belt was done. I have all the records from the previous owner did but nothing from before him ownership.

I will have to look into a better oil pressure gauge then to see if my pan is causing issues.

 

[cccoltsicehockey]

The factory gauge is more or less useless, you need a real pressure gauge to get any accurate information about oil pressure. An NSX should see around 18-20psi at idle and mine was at 13-15psi, as measured with an AEM electronic sensor. The service manual specs 10psi at idle but that's BS as no healthy C3x motor will be that low.

The the oil pickup has about 1/8 inch clearance with the bottom of the pan, if the pan is dented more than that that then they are touching.

Edit: The Cedar Ridge Fabrication baffle is much nicer than the SoS baffle and cheaper too.

Wow wasn't aware it was that bad. Is there an easy place to tap an oil line on the engine for pressure? I will have to search as well.

That is scary to think that there is only 1/8 clearance. I will have to get a straight on shot of the oil pan but pretty sure at least one spot has more than 1/8in of damage.

Will look into the Cedar Ridge baffle. Will have to find a good source for a new oil pan. Only reason I was somewhat considering the SOS was that they offered to supply one but their price seemed a bit high.

 

[MotorMouth93]

There's a couple options for oil pressure, SoS sells a kit to relocate the sending unit and you can add a T connector to that for an aftermarket sender, or you can get an adapter (also from SoS) to tap into one of the other oil ports on the cylinder head.

Comparison of the baffles:

SoS



CRF

 

[nsxot1c]

Looking good! I've always loved this car. Congrats on the buy!