Clutch engaging to high....

[Turbophein]

ok so a couple months of ownership and finally starting to get use to this car, i just can't overlook this clutch any longer. it catches almost at the very top of the pedal throw. it is throwing me way off when taking off from a stop, if the radio is on, its horrible, i keep riding it. i am a veteran manual driver and i am use to a super responsive 2600lbs clutch that engages almost immediately. i can't ever recall a car engaging this far up, unless it was slipping and already bad.

my question is:

when this clutch was replaced prior to me was it done wrong? or just not adjusted?

when i go to adjust the clutch rod, am i screwing it in like i think i should, or turning it back out?

thanks

 

[davidf]

Do you have the usual "freeplay"? About an inch is fine. These cars do have a high engagement. I believe there is some adjustment room but high is the norm for these.

 

[Silver Surfer]

An extract from Kaz at NSXCB:

Quote:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
With OEM CL, while the CL bite point won't change, the pedal effort gets much heavier on the worn out friction disc than the fresh new one.

Because it's a gradual change, lots of owners won't be able to tell this but when you have fresh CL and old used one like over 100K miles on two NSX side by side, you will feel the night and day difference on the CL pedal weight.
The heavier the CL pedal, the more the disc worn out.

I think you already carried out the test by yourself.
I normally put the car in 3rd or 4th gear on a gentle long up slope at low speed like you have on the motorway junction and then just apply moderate - hard acceleration.
You will notice the slip if the CL is on the go.
You will also notice some minor slip when you do high rpm upshift while driving aggressively.

You can't judge the condition of your CL by the mileage because it depends on all sorts of driving conditions.
For example, in Japan, we have to use parking brake and let the CL to slip gently on launch as we have so many steep up slope everywhere. Also, lots of traffic jam so stop and go traffic is normal.
While I was in Japan, I used to replace the CL every 30K- 40K miles. After I moved to UK, I'm still using the same driving style but I already covered more than 100K miles on the CL and just about feeling the slip so it's at the end of it's life.
If you covered **K miles and started to feel the slip, then probably it's best to start looking for the new CL.


The best all-rounder is the OEM one. No doubt about this because it is targeted for all sorts of driving conditions and for all drivers. It is probably the most durable one as well.
Being as all-rounder, there are several compromise. In order to make the CL engage easier for any drivers, the flywheel and rotational mass of entire CL unit is heavy to keep high inertia.
This will slow down the engine response but the driver doesn't need to worry about the sharp rpm drop on gear shifting resulting in quick reaction required for finding the bite point.

Lots of owners replaced their CL with OEM one but purchased aftermarket lightweight flywheel to install it at the same time. Unfortunately, for OEM twin disc CL, you can't buy the CL assy without the flywheel unless you are replacing just the two friction discs so you must buy the complete set which means you will have brand new OEM flywheel that won't be used when installing the aftermarket one.

I have never driven or installed the SoS one.........


...........you may get the idea on the labour charge.
I would assume they will charge you around 6 - 10Hrs.


Please make sure to replace the release bearing, bearing guide (if rusty) and release fork.


Regards,
Kaz
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If going for the aftermarket flywheel, plesae pay attention not just to the weight but also the design especially the inertia.
Lots of people tends to discuss about the weight of the flywheel but it's actually the rotational inertia that makes the difference.
For the same reason, if you are doing mainly street driving, you want to avoid too light, too small inertia flywheel.
You may get used to it but for quite a while, you will be forced to pay extra attention trying to 'catch' the bite point before the rpm drops too far resulting in jerky driving style.

If it has just started slipping, you should have some time before it really slips unless you broke the torsion spring. In this case, you won't be able to disengage the CL.

Hope you can find good replacement.

Kaz

Unquote!

SS

 

[dquarasr2]

it is throwing me way off when taking off from a stop

If the free play is as described above, you may just be dealing with these cars' normal high clutch engagement point.

Maybe not the best solution, try moving your seat back a little bit (assuming you don't already have the seat all the way back) then telescope the steering wheel to keep your hands comfortable.

 

[tbnsxt]

your clutch is worn the disks wear unevenly and can cause a high pedal gradually over time.

I have driven nsx's back to back one with a brand new clutch and one with a 70k mile clutch and the old one has a very noticeable high engagement point.

 

[jwmelvin]

I don't doubt any of the above but it is pretty easy to adjust the engagement point by turning the pushrod into or out of the clevis on the pedal. Just be sure to get a 12mm line wrench (straight, nonarticulating head) for the lock nut.

 

[Turbophein]

I don't doubt any of the above but it is pretty easy to adjust the engagement point by turning the pushrod into or out of the clevis on the pedal. Just be sure to get a 12mm line wrench (straight, nonarticulating head) for the lock nut.

Have you done this yourself? this is what i was planning on trying...

- - - Updated - - -

your clutch is worn the disks wear unevenly and can cause a high pedal gradually over time.

I have driven nsx's back to back one with a brand new clutch and one with a 70k mile clutch and the old one has a very noticeable high engagement point.

I have receipts for a recent clutch few years back with very few adult miles driven since.

 

[jwmelvin]

Have you done this yourself? this is what i was planning on trying...

Yes I've done it. I modified my clutch pedal for more leverage (lighter pedal), the downside of which is a very narrow range of acceptable adjustment. So it took about five iterations to get the pushrod in just the right place. It's a slightly annoying task but not that bad if you have the necessary tool.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000NPR2CG

 

[Turbophein]

Yes I've done it. I modified my clutch pedal for more leverage (lighter pedal), the downside of which is a very narrow range of acceptable adjustment. So it took about five iterations to get the pushrod in just the right place. It's a slightly annoying task but not that bad if you have the necessary tool.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000NPR2CG

thanks i will give it a go. changed my tranny axle seal today.

 

[ftuhy]

Ditto on the engage/release point being high on the pedal as an NSX characteristic. I've had mine 14 years, and its still annoying after I drive my old 'vette. I was getting a squeal at the start of the release point both in cold weather or in hot weather after running a few hours. Panicking that I needed to address this before thinking about driving out to NSXPO this year, I pulled the transaxle. (I needed to do part of the job anyway as the original CV grease was starting to ooze. But, I don't want to ever pull/install the transaxle again! ).

Anyway, after 50kmi on the clutch, the flywheel, intermediate plate, and pressure plate were still better than original spec. Discs were very slightly worn, so I could have easily gotten 100kmi from them. But, the release bearing was noticeably stiffer than the new one, even though it was very smooth. I think that was the screech - it didn't spin up fast enough when being engaged. Its all back together and running quietly. But the pedal engage/release point is just about as high as it always was.:frown:

Let us know how tweaking the pushrod adjustment goes.

 

[Turbophein]

Ditto on the engage/release point being high on the pedal as an NSX characteristic. I've had mine 14 years, and its still annoying after I drive my old 'vette. I was getting a squeal at the start of the release point both in cold weather or in hot weather after running a few hours. Panicking that I needed to address this before thinking about driving out to NSXPO this year, I pulled the transaxle. (I needed to do part of the job anyway as the original CV grease was starting to ooze. But, I don't want to ever pull/install the transaxle again! ).

Anyway, after 50kmi on the clutch, the flywheel, intermediate plate, and pressure plate were still better than original spec. Discs were very slightly worn, so I could have easily gotten 100kmi from them. But, the release bearing was noticeably stiffer than the new one, even though it was very smooth. I think that was the screech - it didn't spin up fast enough when being engaged. Its all back together and running quietly. But the pedal engage/release point is just about as high as it always was.:frown:

Let us know how tweaking the pushrod adjustment goes.

no luck on the adjustment, it was not as i thought... not adjustable.

 

[jwmelvin]

no luck on the adjustment, it was not as i thought... not adjustable.

Does that mean it was already at the end of the adjustment range? Or that you have some non-stock mechanism?

 

[Turbophein]

Does that mean it was already at the end of the adjustment range? Or that you have some non-stock mechanism?

the adjustment was for the freeplay in the clutch, not where it engages in the pedal stroke.

 

[jwmelvin]

the adjustment was for the freeplay in the clutch, not where it engages in the pedal stroke.

Yes, it affects the free play. But if the pedal starts in the same place and has more free play, then doesn't engagement have to be lower? Put another way, if the pushrod is at the start of engagement and does not move, then turning the clevis moves the pedal relative to the pushrod, thus changing the engagement point. I must be missing something but I'd love to understand what it is.

 

[cptnsx]

Yes, it affects the free play. But if the pedal starts in the same place and has more free play, then doesn't engagement have to be lower? Put another way, if the pushrod is at the start of engagement and does not move, then turning the clevis moves the pedal relative to the pushrod, thus changing the engagement point. I must be missing something but I'd love to understand what it is.

No the engagement point is the same, you will just have more mush before you get there or less depending on how you adjust the pushrod. Like others has stated as the clutch wears the engagement will get higher than normal but the NSX still engages high. The pushrod adjustment can give you more or less height on the clutch pedal ie variable mush or freeplay before the engagement point but the engagement is the same. People consider resistance as a key attribute of their perception of a clutch's engagement point and by adding more freeplay you don't get more resistance just extra or less mush ergo the perception is the engagement point has not changed even though technically the height of the pedal has and where your foot starts.

 

[Turbophein]

Yes, it affects the free play. But if the pedal starts in the same place and has more free play, then doesn't engagement have to be lower? Put another way, if the pushrod is at the start of engagement and does not move, then turning the clevis moves the pedal relative to the pushrod, thus changing the engagement point. I must be missing something but I'd love to understand what it is.

yes sorta, but the problem is to get it to adjust the way I/we want, you have to adjust it the way that makes it lose all free play, basically you will then be constantly engaging the clutch which is no bueno.

i've never seen the bell housing or slave cylinder in these cars but i am sure a simple solution could be made to them to suit our purpose. (spacer, longer or extended slave rod???) its not impossible i'm sure.

 

[jwmelvin]

That makes some sense, thanks.