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Debating the purchase of a '93 with high miles

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artesho

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19 October 2015
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First off, I would like to introduce myself to the forum and community. My name is Randy and I am in my mid 20's and working for uncle Sam as an engineer. I currently own and daily drive an 05 RSX Type-S. I have been reading many threads on here and I am very pleased to see how mature and respectful the community is compared to the RSX community...Previously I was involved with the 4runner (3rd gen) community and I really liked that scene. I have gathered general information regarding inspections and things to look out for and consider when purchasing a NSX. I have a few additional questions and looking for some advice from current owners.

Recently a 1993 5spd has popped up on the market and I am debating whether to acquire it or not. Here are the details:

1993 New formula red with onyx interior
5spd manual
owners manual and receipts (not sure if they are from the purchase or maintenance)
currently 162xxx miles
Seller claims: second owner, clean title, original paint, purchased in Oregon and owned for last 12 years and dealer maintained.
He has used synthetic oil for oil changes. Front has yokohama tires and rear has Michelin. Reports no leaks.

Recent maintenance includes: Last year (2014) the Timing belt, plugs, alternator belt, air cleaner, tube seals, ac belt, flush coolant, and under shield molding, cam plugs and timing belt idler, water pump, plugs all done at Science of Speed in Phoenix Arizona in 2014 at a cost of $3700

Some uglies:
-Driver side window rolls up slowly and needs assistance fully closing. Driver's side speaker has been replaced twice in last ten years. Driver's door handle was replaced early this year and works intermittently with remote but no problems manually locking or unlocking. (All driver side electrical problems suggests maybe water damage?)
-Trip odometer doesn't work (I will need to verify that the total miles driven function works)
-Trunk struts need replacing, engine compartment struts have been replaced.
-Driver seat shows age, "There are paint chips and windshield chips (all treated) from driving very fast." (kind of worried about his fast driving haha)
-Windshield molding replaced but sometimes comes loose. (Not sure if that is something you just push back into place?)
-Driver's side door has scratch on lower part (I need to do a visual and see how bad it is)
-3mm dent caused by garage spring (doesn't show dent)
-ran over debris 6 years ago and wheel was bent but repaired (causes me to think there must be more damage than just the wheel since the vehicle isn't that high to begin with)

His asking price is in the mid 20's range and might be negotiable. I am considering it only because I've seen the great appreciation value recently and I have developed a love for Honda engineering after driving my RSX and a friend's S2000. I grew up a skyline fan boy so naturally, Nissan's were very attractive to me. It would be an amazing experience to be able to own and drive Honda's flagship vehicle, but that doesn't mean I will make an uneducated purchase.

My situation is: small amount of student loan debt to be paid off in the next 4-5 years. renting a home, and saving the rest after monthly expenses. I could either take out a small loan to purchase the NSX or sell the RSX and use some savings but the NSX will become my daily driver. Is it advisable to go pursue this? Also, with the first batch of NSX's reaching 25 years if not already, it would become allowable on the import list which means we would be able to own an NSX-R in the US but probably with a high premium. This could affect resale value of usdm nsx's in my opinion.

I apologize for the lengthy first post, but I look forward to reading your comments, opinions, advice, and criticism.

Cheers,
Randy
 
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I'd have no problem at all with the mileage. I have over 123k on mine, and many here have far more. I would, however, be concerned that the one you are considering has been severely neglected. Windshield moulding should not pop out. Windows should not need help closing. Trip odometers should work. For a car in this class, those issues should have been addressed shortly after they cropped up. It really makes me wonder what else has been neglected that you can't see.

If you are handy with a wrench or know someone who is intimate with these cars, it might be worth a shot. But you should be prepared for many surprises.
 
Cars are in better shape when driven. I'm getting close to 140k miles myself and it runs fantastic. After all it's not FD. If maintained and not abused it will run for hundred of thousands miles.
 
Welcome to the community. A great first question to ask the seller is why is he selling. IMO it makes zero sense to put $3700 of maintenance into a car I'm just going to turn around and sell. He's not going to be able to get that money back. If the car runs and drives like it should, his asking price doesn't sound too far off the mark. Still...a PPI from a shop that knows NSXs (Science of Speed) would be in order. This would give you some peace of mind and additional leverage in negotiations.

Good luck!

p.s. - unless the car has been repainted, the car's color is very likely formula red. New formula red wasn't offered until a few years later.
 
do you have the vin#
 
I know firsthand your feeling of wanting to own one so bad you're willing to rationalize certain risks to advance ownership, but IMHO unless you're getting it in the $$teens, the odo and other uglies (which may lead to yet-to-be-discovered uglies) make me personally think: do your damndest to save another few $$ over the next 6 months by eating in more often, selling things you don't really need, monitor your expenses over 3 months and see where you can cut out a few hundred a month that you can save, and maybe target an NSX in the $30's that's much more solid. An NSX in good condition should be nearly certainly money-in-the-bank but one needing a lot of work that may be full of surprises could suck up a lot of time and money and enjoyment.

Plus sort thru the last 12-18 months of for sale ads that aren't locked even if they haven't been bumped in months and email all owners of ones that fit the bill of your req's and politely inquire about their NSX's and try to drum up opportunities. I think it's accurate to say many if not most NSX sellers look for the right buyer who will take care of their baby as much as buyers look for the right seller who will be honest about the car and not be a nightmare to deal with.

An NSX as a daily driver - I can't speak firsthand about. I think that takes a certain type of owner (not saying that in a bad way) since the NSX isn't exactly "convenient" - small and hard to see in traffic amongst the texting and inattentive spaced-out drivers of the world, little storage area, probably not the most easiest in winters (although I lived thru two Pittsburgh winters with a 300ZX just fine, with good tires and smart, patient driving practices).

Are you over 25 or at an age where insurance won't kill your budget? Are you watching your budget to the point that you're saving at least 10% in your 401k and accumulating a few hundred or thousand $ a month at your age before moving onto owning another sports car?

One good thing IMHO about a high mileage NSX may be more attraction to drive the hell out of it instead of conserve miles. The best/worst thing I did was stumble upon a 1-owner 17k mile NSX. It's been 100% great and 100% bad at the same time for driving enjoyment, loving & kinda hating watching the odo roll up. :)

Those are my random thoughts and opinions. :)
 
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with an average of about 7,000 miles p/year, it's not a really "high mileage" car for it's age. There are many here that have over 200,000 miles on their cars, and they're well maintained, ready for the track, or a drive cross country. That's because they've been well maintained. If the car hasn't been well taken care of (this car you're looking at doesn't seem to be in that category), then you might find many unpleasant surprises down the road. As someone who's involved in finances and financial planning, I'd rather see you pay down your debt, increase your retirement contributions, look to buy a residence (rates are extremely attractive currently), and wait for a discretionary purchase such as this. Buy a better maintained example, it'll save you money in the long run, but wait until you address what should be priorities before getting the car. Yes, life can be short, but debt goes on forever!! Take care of the necessary things first, and the discretionary things later!!!
 
I was also going to say: rather than buy an NSX now, buy a duplex or triplex now before you get married and your wife insists on a larger single family home, so your tenants pay for you to live free while you park $1000/month for a year or two towards paying down the debt and towards an NSX w/o issues so you'll have more drive time than wrenching time. Also borrow Rich Dad Poor Dad from the library this week and read it in one evening. And screen your tenants super well. And wear sunscreen. :)
 
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Thank you all for your insight. I definitely didn't read what I wanted to, but rather what I NEEDED to. I appreciate the honest and logical responses and guidance.

BamaFan: I agree that the high miles shouldn't be a problem with these cars and that owners of this class of vehicle should have the means to address small problems in a timely manner instead of prolonging them. It's a very good point you make about potential issues that may have been neglected. Thanks!

Solidol: I'm not sure what FD stand for, maybe ford? formula drift? Anyways, if maintained properly, I'm sure these cars can go the distance!

brettowen: That's a great point about the major maintenance costs. His reasons are that he wants to use the money to move to Japan and learn Japanese. I wish I could get a NSX Specialist out here in Hawaii but I doubt there are any. Thanks for the correction on the color. Love how I learned so much about the NSX in the short few days of being on this forum!

docjohn: I do not have the VIN currently and it is probably not hard to get from the seller, but at this point, I think I'm going to steer clear of this one and do the financially responsible thing to do as some of the members of suggested.

Yinzer: You are spot on! Damn, I am/was rationalizing just to convince myself towards buying it. I think it's best to save up more, invest, and prioritize to increase my assets and income streams prior to making a purchase like this, which is very nice, albeit not necessary. I looked up what the insurance premium would be to add on the NSX and it was just under $200 for 6 months which I don't think is too bad. I'm contributing only 5% to my TSP at the moment, but plan to increase that to the annual maximum in the next open season to change my benefits.

RPM217: Thank you for the financial advice. I am not where I want to be or probably should be, but I am working towards it. I have a decent job and hoping to open a couple small businesses in the next few years. I need to educate myself with finance a lot more and be more familiar with it in general so that I can venture into the entrepreneur realm with confidence and a great strategy. Hawaii's real estate market is just so expensive and a far reach for a single income individual like myself and I don't plan on getting married or having kids for a while. I want to have the foundation set for that before starting a family (have a house, multiple income streams, and be financially free). Currently, I have a manageable amount of student loan debt on a repayment plan to be completed in 10 years, 5 more to go. I do not have any other debt other than that, carry no balance from credit cards, and have the usual monthly expenses such as rent, utilities, food, cell phone, and a decreasing entertainment expense.

Again, thank you all for your responses!!

- - - Updated - - -

Yinzer, that's the plan, but it takes money to make money. I don't have the capital to buy real estate at the moment but I see the potential in it being residual income for the most part as long as there are no major repairs/break downs in appliances etc. I have watched a lot of the rich dad poor dad seminar videos but haven't read the books yet. I just began reading "Confessions of a CPA" by Bryan Bloom
 
artesho said:
Yinzer, that's the plan, but it takes money to make money. I don't have the capital to buy real estate at the moment but I see the potential in it being residual income for the most part as long as there are no major repairs/break downs in appliances etc. I have watched a lot of the rich dad poor dad seminar videos but haven't read the books yet. I just began reading "Confessions of a CPA" by Bryan Bloom
Click to expand...

Kudos to you for being a good sport while some of us know-it-alls answer the question you weren't even asking. :)

It takes money to make money but if you expect to have enough to put down on an NSX, I'm (blindly/arrogantly/assumingly) thinking you may be not too far away from saving up 5%-10% towards a small starter duplex or side business that'll act as a little goose that lays little golden eggs. And a small duplex w/2 kitchens and 2 baths doesn't cost as much as you think to maintain if properly kept-up (like an NSX) - probably even less than a large 2,500 sq ft home with 3 baths and a big yard.

I don't know much about Bob Kiyosaki's seminars and I sometimes wonder if they're more about saying the same thing 10 different ways and more about putting money in his pocket than in the pockets of the attendees, but I can oversimplify his philosophy in 1 sentence: First buy things that appreciate and/or pay you back (assets) instead of buying so-called assets like a fancy car (that actually depreciates) or a too-large house you can barely afford. If done right, the assets will later give you ability to buy fun depreciators and life-enriching things like trips while continuing to appreciate and/or pay you back. Takes some sacrifice and it's hard to imagine putting off ownership of a fun car like an NSX for years but life is a long journey, you'll have time. They've bubbled up 10-20% in value over the past 5 years but not really stratospherically. (Yet...)

Well enough diversion and pontification, back to NSX's. I'm thinking Bob K would love NSX's; they're practically appreciating assets if bought right. :) And being on HI, look up FFDrifter if you already haven't. He daily drives an NSX and could give you some insight on that, and he's a great guy, besides.
 
I don't think that list of "bads" is really all that bad. Sounds to me like a decent running / driving NSX, with a $4k fresh load of maintenance from SOS, at a very reasonable mid $20's price. I guess I'll go against the grain and say buy it. I, too, got my NSX when I still had plenty of student loan debt to pay off. If you keep putting it off it'll never happen. I got into my NSX 2 weeks before my 30th birthday and that had been my goal date all along. 3.5 years and 22,000 miles later, I have zero regrets. Still owe a few bucks on the car and a few bucks on the student loans, but I am living my dream every time I get behind the wheel. So, treat yourself!

Edit:

Also, 160k miles doesn't scare me one bit. My 1994 Legend passed Arizona emissions yesterday at 538,835 miles on the original engine. Thumbs up to 1990s Acura engineering.
 
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Dude! The car you were looking at is today's "Nice Price or Crack Pipe?" on Jalopnik!!

Now you can hear a TON of opinions! BTW, you never mentioned that the car is in Hawaii...
 
Money pit

Don't kid yourself high mileage is an issue-- It means it has less time to exist-- drive it and a low mileage car before buying--better yet go camping with a 60 year old and then a 25 year old woman Also keep in mind that no matter how much money you invest in either (senior or car)they will never be as good as they were.


P.S. I have had both ways many times(cars that is)and hands down recommend buying as new and low mileage as possible.
 
BamaFan said:
Dude! The car you were looking at is today's "Nice Price or Crack Pipe?" on Jalopnik!!

Now you can hear a TON of opinions! BTW, you never mentioned that the car is in Hawaii...
Click to expand...

I just saw the article. It is precisely the ad I was inquiring about. But from the advice given here, I have decided to hold off. It's still in the back of my mind and I definitely want to experience owning one. I'm trying to control my urge for now and keep my RSX type-s and modify to have some fun with it. BUT, my friend just offered me his 2003 AP1 S2000 in gran prix white with 77k miles and a few grand in parts invested for a really good deal. I wouldn't have to take out a loan or anything so long that I sell my RSX....ahhh first world problems.
 
Well, before I post in the introductions area I figured I would post here first. Randy, thanks for not picking up the car because I believe you were the only other individual serious about it based on my converstations with the gentlemen who was selling the car. Jalopnik sure didn't help us as the seller went from like 10 texts a day to almost 30 after that article came out (of course all with grandiose claims of wiring money and shipping the car sight unseen etc.).

Last Saturday, I went to check out the car. Of course, I had all the concerns that many of the members are voicing here. High mileage, seller being honest about the flaws, and other unknowns. But, I got the VIN the night before and ran the CarFax before I agreed to meet up to check it out. For everyones knowlege, it is a 2 owner car with no accidents. The seller owned the car almost 13 years, with the majority of that time spent in El Paso, Texas. The rest of the history shows registrations in VA, OR, and now HI. The seller just moved to the islands too, with the car only being here for 3 months total and not enough time to consider it an "island car." On top of that, ever since the car went over 75K miles, all the work (oil changes and services) have been done at Acura (in the continental 48 states) or Honda (one service in HI) dealerships at the proper intervals. So, major win in this cars book for having service records. I was also given the reciept from where he shipped the car to Science of Speed and the work done (timing belt, water pump, and other miscellaneous stuff) done in February 2014. Another win. Last win, outside of 2 hydraulic struts from Science of Speed, wheels from a later-gen NSX, and the S2000 antenna, this car is bone stock. No modificiations, no quick fixes, just as close to what Acura sold in 1993 as possible. Major win.

So, Saturday I go look at the car. Bottom line, the seller was telling the truth on every facet of his add. Couple paint chips on the hood from small rocks (most likely freeway driving), the garage spring scratch was about the size of a pencil eraser, the vandalism scratch on the door appears to be clear coat only, and the paint looks like its been a drivers car (however, not bad for 23 year old paint). Interior wise, everything worked. He claimed the radio lost AM/FM reception after the S2000 antenna was installed but I got that working in about 10 minutes. Seats have 162K miles worth of butts on them as they should have. All electronics work, AC blows cold, minimal squeaks and rattles, car tracks straight, no wierd smells, or anything that would raise eyebrows. In all honestly, I have bought a lot of cars over the past 5 years (2013 Mustang V6, 2013 Mustang GT, 2015 Challenger Scat Pack, 2015 Chevy SS Sedan 6MT, 1999 Mazda Miata, 2014 Ram 1500 EcoDiesel, 2004 Ford Ranger) and I was quite surprised by how well preserved this high mileage NSX was. So, I was hooked on the car.

All it came down to was price. Truly, this car was worth all $25.6K he was asking for. Being in Hawaii, not very many people interested in this car (huge import scene here) don't have the funds to cash purchase this car. I had been saving up money to go to a MECUM auction after I left Hawaii to pick up something cool, so I had the liquid funds. Basically, I offered $17K for the car, he countered with go above $18K, I countered with $18.5K and now the car is in my driveway. So, for $18.5K I got a high mileage NSX with an excellent serivice history and now me being the 3rd owner. Randy, you should have looked at this car. Even if the engine grenades itself, the negociated price would allow me to build the engine again with forged components. Once I get off from work here and can get it cleaned up I will take some solid pictures. Look forward to being part of this forum and learning more about this car that I have been lusting over since I first used it on Gran Turismo 1 on Playstation.

- Jeff
 
Welcome to Prime, Jeff. You got an absolute steal! The car sounds exactly like my 93 except with a few more miles (I have 146k miles on mine now). All the issues OP described sound minor and typical of early NSXs. My trip-odometer also stopped turning after I bought it (it became stuck after I tried to reset it to zero after a fuel fill-up), and I haven't felt the urge to spend the money to have SOS tear the dash apart to look at it. The odometer still works fine though, and shows the total mileage on the car. I had SOS do a PPI on my car after I brought it home, and they found no mechanical issues with it. Some fellow Primates have seen my car in person as well as driven/ridden in it, and they can attest to the fact that it drives like lower mileage NSXs (and looks pretty good too, after a few minor repairs/upgrades I've done to the car). I had to pay $21.5k for mine 3 years ago, and that was before the timing belt/water pump/coolant hoses maintenance by SOS! I thought I got a deal, but it sounds like you got the deal of the decade!

Congratulations, and enjoy your new NSX!
 
Ah congratulations! That's one heck of a deal. Enjoy the car and hopefully one day I'll get to drive one. But as for now, I am working on selling my RSX type-s so I can help a friend out and buy his AP1 S2000 in gran prix white. 77k miles. NSX's are pretty rare and exclusive, but gpw ap1 s2000's are pretty rare too. I think everything happens for good reason as long as you have the right attitude and everything is dependent on perception. I hope the RSX sells and maybe we can go cruise with your nsx and hopefully my new S2000. Let me know if you're willing to show off the car sometime, I live in town near ala moana.
 
Phoen$x, thanks for the welcome. I couldn't believe it when the guy took my offer, I was kind of BS'ing the idea of it. But once I noticed he was willing to go that low for a cash deal, I couldn't let it go. Otherwise I would be having to drop the $30K to get an NSX.

Randy, the S2000 is a great vehicle too. Prices on them keep going up, so hopefully you can sell the RSX-S quickly to pick up that AP1. Great high reving motor that is a blast to drive. I am from the muscle world, mostly because you can make speed cheap and easily. However, years of playing Gran Turismo made you aware of all the Japanese 90s cars (300ZX's, Supra's, 3000GT VR4's, RX7's, etc.). This weekend I am probably taking the NSX to the Wendy's car meet in Kapolei on Saturday to show it off since not many people have seen it on island yet. So if you make it out there, feel free to stop me and check it out. Either way, I am down to meet up for a cruise. Haven't really dived too deep into the car scene here as it primarily revolved around imports. Now that I have one, guess I can join the party.

Also, probably broke an unwritten forum rule by not posting a picture. I got the car back home after a late night of work so I could only get a night picture.

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posterchild2 said:
Welcome and yeah you got the deal of the century, considering the upward trend in values for the NSX. That's a nice SS too!
Click to expand...

Thanks a bunch! The SS is a fantastic car that doens't get much appreciation actually. The 2015's finally made the car desireable IMO with the advent of the manual transmission and magnetic ride control shocks. Aiding to the allure of it here is the fact that I have the only manual transmission SS in Hawaii until the 2016's start hitting the lots here in about 2 months (if a dealer or private individual ordered one). Between the SS and NSX, I know have a pretty rare stable of cars.
 
Nice find! Great price too. If this were in the 48 states it would've been scooped up real quick. I think a lot of people tend to be scared about a high mileage car that needs a little TLC. Those issues are really minor too and easily corrected. It's hard to find a mint condition NSX since they are from the 90's.
 
Great buy! When I saw on Jalopnik that it was on the islands, I figured it would take someone from the islands to purchase it. I don't think shipping costs were the issue (as many on Jalopnik said). It was the inability for most to lay eyes on the car and test drive it.

My NSX is high mileage as well...but these were built very, very differently than most cars. I have other cars that were not as tight at 1/2 the miles.

Get that windshield moulding fixed fast! You don't want to deal with the potential of water coming into the car.
 
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