Dropping the motor tomorrow. Advice?

[michaelbrat]

I'm dropping the motor tomorrow morning. My NSX has been down for several months due to a blown coolant hose, resulting in 27% leak at one piston.
The consensus seems to be a blown head gasket and possible head warp. We will see once it is out. Hopefully that's all it is. I got around to installing a lift in my shop this month, and am ready to get into it. I've never done this before, so wish me luck.

Anyone have tips or suggestions for me? Here is basically what I'll be doing.

Dropping the whole subframe assembly. Following the service manual mostly; minus the part about removing the ball joints. Doesn't seem necessary. I'll also be loosening the crank pulley before dropping it for ease.

Here is the list of things I plan to do while in there.

- Timing belt, and possibly harmonic balancer (read of possible delamination from age)
- Cedar Ridge Balancer shield.
- Cedar Ridge baffled oil pan with bunge for oil temp sensor.
- Defi ZD Display (oil temp, water temp, oil press)
- Need to find a "t" joint to install OEM oil pressure sensor and aftermarket press sensor. Any recommendations?
- Coolant pressure drop warning light (link)
- All rubber hoses, plus any other rubber items I can replace.
- Updated design lost motion valves.
- Valve seals.
- Headgaskets.
- Clean injectors.
- Check clutch wear.

Other stuff.

- The ABS noise. Anyone know how to fix this? I was told it's a simple fix, but couldn't find anything on Prime about it.
- Replace brake lines.

Please chime if you have have any recommendations for things to do while I have the motor out.
I think I have most of it covered, but I'm open to any advice :smile:

Mike B

 

[shawn110975]

I just did one the other night takes me about an hour since I have done like hundreds now LOL but you have a nice fancy lift, Im getting a lift soon though.



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my advice is to remove the shocks before the engine drop. you can leave them in but when you drop the motor the hats and studs will scrap the walls of the fenderwell then putting it back in fighting each side every few inches to get them in straight is a bitch.

take them out insert motor then install the shocks. you will thank me LOL

 

[warrenw]

ABS issue: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...lt-early-model-ABS-ALB-modulator-rebuild-kits

 

[solidol]

Mike, definitely replace crankshaft pulley. It's around 200 new from Honda.

Or if #lighterisbetter still your mojo you can get ATI Super Damper (summitracing is the place to get it: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-917757); but you need to have their press tool to install it - just FYI

You can save on the shield too

 

[Kaz-kzukNA1]

If you have some time, you may find some information useful during the course by going through lots of photos in my blog.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/blog.php?1811&blogcategoryid=51

Good luck.

Kaz

 

[michaelbrat]

I just did one the other night takes me about an hour since I have done like hundreds now LOL but you have a nice fancy lift, Im getting a lift soon though.

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my advice is to remove the shocks before the engine drop. you can leave them in but when you drop the motor the hats and studs will scrap the walls of the fenderwell then putting it back in fighting each side every few inches to get them in straight is a bitch.

take them out insert motor then install the shocks. you will thank me LOL

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely be fully removing the struts.

Once you bolt the engine and subframe assembly back in the car, do you find it easy to slide the struts back in? I recall my friend trying to change out his struts, and wasn't able to squeeze them out with all the arms and assemblies in the way.

ABS issue: http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...lt-early-model-ABS-ALB-modulator-rebuild-kits

Thanks Warren. Just sent you a PM to order at least one of your rebuild kits.

Mike, definitely replace crankshaft pulley. It's around 200 new from Honda.

Or if #lighterisbetter still your mojo you can get ATI Super Damper (summitracing is the place to get it: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-917757); but you need to have their press tool to install it - just FYI

You can save on the shield too

Thanks Roman! I'll likely stick with the OEM unit. I like to stay Honda OE when I can.

Mike B

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If you have some time, you may find some information useful during the course by going through lots of photos in my blog.
http://www.nsxcb.co.uk/blog.php?1811&blogcategoryid=51

Good luck.

Kaz

Thanks KAZ, looks like you have some good info on there. I'll definitely check it out in the future. There are a lot of pages to go through!

Mike B

 

[shawn110975]

people say they have to stand on the calipers to push them down far enough to get the bottom of the shock onto the knuckle.

you need to remember how the strut came out to get it back in with no hassle

the the bottom of the strut goes in between the rear brake line and between the sway arm then aim it vertical
into the strut tower then turn it till the studs line up, then put one nut on. then have your hand on the strut and press down on the caliper with a bouncing motion and it will slide back in with ease.

 

[michaelbrat]

Completed the engine drop. Spent an afternoon to complete. Took my time and everything went smoothly.







Mike B

 

[B2FiNiTY]

very nice pictures and love how clean your "shop" is too.

 

[michaelbrat]

very nice pictures and love how clean your "shop" is too.

Thanks, I like to keep things tidy when possible :smile:

Mike B

 

[Madhatter10-6]

Nice work! Do you have any more pics of the removal process? Also, what stand / cradle is that?

 

[michaelbrat]

Nice work! Do you have any more pics of the removal process? Also, what stand / cradle is that?

I don't have any other pictures really. I was considering doing a engine removal write up, but the Acura service manual breaks it down so nicely that I don't think it'd really be worth it. I just followed the manual step-by-step and it was a piece of cake. Just took some time and patience. Rereading things to make sure I didn't miss a step.

The cradle is from Honda, designed for this purpose. I'm not sure if it's available for purchase anymore.

Mike B

 

[michaelbrat]

Heat foil wrapping some parts of the car while the motor is out. Practicing a bit with 3mil gold foil on the bottom magnesium intake manifold cover. The foil pretty thin, so it is somewhat forgiving on non-flat surfaces. Still takes a lot of individual pieces and cutting to fit to a more complex shape.

Mike B

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

Impressive work Mike!... I had no idea you had a shop & wrench on your own cars. Mad skills !

Subscribe.

 

[michaelbrat]

Impressive work Mike!... I had no idea you had a shop & wrench on your own cars. Mad skills !

Subscribe.

Thanks. I bought the lift for this purpose, though this is my first time dropping a motor. Lets hope it runs properly when reassembled

Mike B

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Some more pictures of the current situation.

Finished the engine bay hear foil wrapping. Was lapping the valve seats when I realized my guides were worn out. There is a good amount of valve wiggle in each guide, so it seems like I can't avoid machine work. Will replace with oem guides and ream, keep the existing valves since they're so expensive and still to spec, cut new valves seats and grind the valves, resurface the heads while I'm at it; might as well.

















Mike B

 

[htmachine]

Mike
just finished a clutch, engine refresh myself. For the struts, I left them in the car and just lowered the car onto the subframe until the holes lined up, slid the sway bar bolts through the shocks an lowered the car the rest of the way. Might I suggest you repack the axles. I didn't think of doing it before I dropped the subframe and didn't think I could remove the spindle nuts so I unbolted the upper a arms, swung them out of the way and the uprights then just tilt out. I then just disassembled the outer cv joints and removed the axles, rebuilt and reassembled. About the coolant pressure gage. I think you would be better off with a coolant level warning light. I think (hopefully some others will chime in with their opinions) if you get a pinhole leak the system would still be under pressure as it is pissing out. Your situation is a good opportunity to warn others about changing coolant lines. Our cars are getting old, some of the hoses I removed were in such bad shape they just came apart. Good luck on your project.
I see you have a Hurco VM 10, I've got one of them. Is that your business or just a hobby?
Vince

 

[eddie_82]

Another Insight/NSX club member.

 

[Jinks]

Very cool heat wrapping job. But does it come in other colors than the Mars rover gold color?

 

[solidol]

Mike, are you still on hydraulic LMAs?

 

[NexuSX]

Where did you get the gold heat wrap?

 

[michaelbrat]

Mike
just finished a clutch, engine refresh myself. For the struts, I left them in the car and just lowered the car onto the subframe until the holes lined up, slid the sway bar bolts through the shocks an lowered the car the rest of the way. Might I suggest you repack the axles. I didn't think of doing it before I dropped the subframe and didn't think I could remove the spindle nuts so I unbolted the upper a arms, swung them out of the way and the uprights then just tilt out. I then just disassembled the outer cv joints and removed the axles, rebuilt and reassembled. About the coolant pressure gage. I think you would be better off with a coolant level warning light. I think (hopefully some others will chime in with their opinions) if you get a pinhole leak the system would still be under pressure as it is pissing out. Your situation is a good opportunity to warn others about changing coolant lines. Our cars are getting old, some of the hoses I removed were in such bad shape they just came apart. Good luck on your project.
I see you have a Hurco VM 10, I've got one of them. Is that your business or just a hobby?
Vince

Hi Vince. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll be sure to repack the axels while I'm at it.

Good point regarding coolant. Do you know of any coolant level warning sensors/kits?

I'm changing out every rubber hose I come into contact with, and every coolant hose for sure. When pulling off some of the major hoses on the engine, I could hear the fibers in the hoses tearing as I was trying to yank them off.

Good eye. It's a friend's Hurco; also a prime member (phryxis). It's how the NSX lightweight battery trays are made (kcmachine.com) I'm working with him on some projects.

Another Insight/NSX club member.

The insight is one of my favorite cars. Are you an insightcentral member?

Very cool heat wrapping job. But does it come in other colors than the Mars rover gold color?

Where did you get the gold heat wrap?

Thanks. Yes, it is available in silver as well (thermalprotectioninc.com)
The gold I'm using is the 6mil version. It's a good mix of pliability and heat reflection. I used the silver 14mil on the plate under the trunk, but the added thickness proved to be harder to work with. It does do a better job of reflecting heat though, so I would use it again.

Mike, are you still on hydraulic LMAs?

I bought a set of the NA2 design LMAs. Acura offers them in the NA1 parts catalog, as a replacement

Mike B

 

[JLCoolman]

Nice work!

One instance where I actually like the gold color.

 

[Mac Attack]

Looks like you are doing a great job!

How many miles were on your engine? Mine had ~120k miles and my valve guides were like new so I didn't replace them.

One thing I recommend is to buy new valve keepers (locks) and retainers. The seats aren't stressed, but the other components are. A few engines have been lost from the OEM retainers/keepers breaking. I don't think they are very expensive.

Oh, while you have your IM apart, check the screws holding the butterfly valves on the spindle for the VVIS. Again, more than a few engines have been lost here due to those backing out and getting ingested into a cylinder. Some remove the VVIS altogether, some try to ensure sufficient torque, and others (preferred) remove/reinstall the screws with red Loctite on them.

Dave

 

[michaelbrat]

Nice work!

One instance where I actually like the gold color.

Thanks!

Looks like you are doing a great job!

How many miles were on your engine? Mine had ~120k miles and my valve guides were like new so I didn't replace them.

One thing I recommend is to buy new valve keepers (locks) and retainers. The seats aren't stressed, but the other components are. A few engines have been lost from the OEM retainers/keepers breaking. I don't think they are very expensive.

Oh, while you have your IM apart, check the screws holding the butterfly valves on the spindle for the VVIS. Again, more than a few engines have been lost here due to those backing out and getting ingested into a cylinder. Some remove the VVIS altogether, some try to ensure sufficient torque, and others (preferred) remove/reinstall the screws with red Loctite on them.

Dave

Hey Dave.

My car has 98k miles. I thought that they'd be fine too, but I noticed a good amount of wiggle when I was lapping them. I'm getting a ball gauge this week to take accurate measurements of the inner guide diameter to check if they're within spec. Hopefully that's the case, but I doubt it. The play was pretty significant. Maybe the previous owner didn't keep up his maintenance.

Good point. I'll replace the locks and keepers. They're not too expensive.

My buddy Colin told me about the VVIS screw issue. The thread on Prime is quite large, with lots of people finding loose screws. I did pull apart the IM, and though all the screws were snug, I backed them out and reinstalled them with Loctite 2620; a high temp (650F) paste, just in case it gets super hot in there. There was some concern on that thread about the standard red Loctite overheating, so I wanted to play it safe.

Thanks again for your feedback Dave!

Mike B

 

[michaelbrat]

Good news. I was able to avoid machine work. It turns out that the valve play side to side (seemed like around 1mm of movement) within the guide is normal and within spec. This pic might not mean much, but it shows the Guide ID and Valve OD, and the clearance between them. Well within spec, even with 98k miles on the heads!

Also did a leakdown once everything was put back together. I'm now seeing 0-0.5% leak across all cylinders. Much better than the 4-11% I was getting, plus the one blown gasket cylinder at 26%

Can't wait to drive this thing; it's been almost a year since it's been sitting











Mike B