Experience in Flat Roofs?

[jonas1jp]

I'm embarking on the journey of replacing the flat roof on my home. It's a particularly stressful experience due to the cost of $45k, but even more stressful due to the ramifications of something being done incorrectly. Does anyone have experience with these roofs and the materials involved? After 6 estimates we've chosen the Firestone product, which we have been convinced is the best in the business. Just looking for tips if anyone has experience in this area.

 

[clr1024]

I have a good friend in the roofing business, couple actually, I can ask them, they are based out of Orlando though.

You can send me a PM and I can forward it on.

 

[steveny]

How many squares is it?

How many protrusions, including vents and skylights?

Unless your house is HUGE 45k is WAY too much money. I just did a flat roof on a 3k sq foot house ~26 squares for 1800 bucks.

 

[Texas91Brent]

I own a roofing company here in Texas......call me and I will assist anyway needed. I have done roofs from 7k to 2million, I will probably have an answer for you. From dog houses to Malls....Been in business 20yrs...Fax me the insurance settlement info and I will review, if you like too..

Cell 817-269-3839
Office 817-654-7123
Fax 682-503-6442


P.S. I do nice finder fees for people in Texas that refer me to customers...Commercial or Residential. easy money, just call me and I will do the rest.:smile:

Diamond Roofing Co.
901 Cresthaven Drive
Euless, Texas 76040

 

[Texas91Brent]

How many squares is it?

How many protrusions, including vents and skylights?

Unless your house is HUGE 45k is WAY too much money. I just did a flat roof on a 3k sq foot house ~26 squares for 1800 bucks.

26 squares for 1800? Thats 69.23 a square including tear off? No way.....Insurance pays between 600 and 1000 a sq for a real flat roof. Now if you go buy buckets of tar and old 90lb rolled roofing you still cant hire anyone for 1800. Did you mean 18,000?

 

[jonas1jp]

How many squares is it?

How many protrusions, including vents and skylights?

Unless your house is HUGE 45k is WAY too much money. I just did a flat roof on a 3k sq foot house ~26 squares for 1800 bucks.

The roof is 4400 square foot. 4 skylights being replaced. Several vents and drains and the such. I have never heard of any roof being done for $1800. What did you use?

I own a roofing company here in Texas......call me and I will assist anyway needed. I have done roofs from 7k to 2million, I will probably have an answer for you. From dog houses to Malls....Been in business 20yrs...Fax me the insurance settlement info and I will review, if you like too..

Well, that's more of the story. There is no insurance settlement. All the decking is completely shot. Rot is the keyword that insurance bows out on. We bought the house in May 2009. The previous owner and roof inspector were good friends (we didn't know this at the time). We have one of the best real estate attorneys in the midwest on our side. Really, that's all I should say for now about that part of the situation.

Bottom line is, we have to pay for the roof out of pocket. After renovating the home for over a year and thinking we were done, this is a huge shot to take. We've had several estimates, and this one has been the most comprehensive warranty along with the best history of well documented jobs. I could send you a digital copy of the quote(s), but at this point that's all we have.

As I get more information, I'll share it. I have waited a while to share this on here, so we've already selected the contractor and are beginning construction October 2nd I believe. We're giving the previous owners time to inspect before beginning.

Thanks for the information, guys. Prime has a few experts in just about every line of work in the world. It's quite amazing!

Joe

 

[steveny]

26 squares for 1800? Thats 69.23 a square including tear off? No way.....Insurance pays between 600 and 1000 a sq for a real flat roof. Now if you go buy buckets of tar and old 90lb rolled roofing you still cant hire anyone for 1800. Did you mean 18,000?

1800.00, torch down rolls. Roll it out torch it down. The guy who did it had 1k in materials and charged 800.00 for labor. It was a very easy roof to do. He was there less than 4 hours.

 

[Dtrigg]

Must admit, I am a little (well, a lot) confused here. Are you having your roof done or do you need a lot of structural work in conjunction with your roof?

I had my flat roof done in Santa Barbara, where nothing is cheap, with lots of sky lights, vents, etc done for about $5. However, that was just my roof. Do you need to have a lot of other construction work?

 

[jonas1jp]

1800.00, torch down rolls. Roll it out torch it down. The guy who did it had 1k in materials and charged 800.00 for labor. It was a very easy roof to do. He was there less than 4 hours.

What the hell? How can I have 6 different people come over and each give me a quote within a few grand of each other? I was happy with the consistency. You're telling me the total cost of the roof you did is less than the difference in cost for mine from one contractor to the next? I want details! Spill em!

One thing that's not being addressed here is the removal of the previous roof. In a perfect world, I would be able to just put a new roof over the one that's already there. Since the current roof is a 'paperweight' flat roof, it has stone on top of the roofing material. We have to rent a crane with a vacuum to come to the house and remove the stone. Then remove the current roof. Only then can we see the extent of the damage to the decking. IF we don't have to replace the decking, then we can install the new roof on top of the decking. If the decking is rotten as the core samples say, it will need replaced prior to installing the new roof. Were there core samples done to the roof that you assisted with?

Also a note: There are two roofs on the home. An original 'hot roof' is the underneath the newer 'paperweight' roof.

I appreciate all the input.

 

[jonas1jp]

Must admit, I am a little (well, a lot) confused here. Are you having your roof done or do you need a lot of structural work in conjunction with your roof?

I had my flat roof done in Santa Barbara, where nothing is cheap, with lots of sky lights, vents, etc done for about $5. However, that was just my roof. Do you need to have a lot of other construction work?

I'm curious about what material steveny and yourself used on the roof. Any idea? Brand name?

 

[steveny]

What the hell? How can I have 6 different people come over and each give me a quote within a few grand of each other? I was happy with the consistency. You're telling me the total cost of the roof you did is less than the difference in cost for mine from one contractor to the next? I want details! Spill em!

One thing that's not being addressed here is the removal of the previous roof. In a perfect world, I would be able to just put a new roof over the one that's already there. Since the current roof is a 'paperweight' flat roof, it has stone on top of the roofing material. We have to rent a crane with a vacuum to come to the house and remove the stone. Then remove the current roof. Only then can we see the extent of the damage to the decking. IF we don't have to replace the decking, then we can install the new roof on top of the decking. If the decking is rotten as the core samples say, it will need replaced prior to installing the new roof. Were there core samples done to the roof that you assisted with?

Also a note: There are two roofs on the home. An original 'hot roof' is the underneath the newer 'paperweight' roof.

I appreciate all the input.

Straight from the roofers mouth,

I don't f--ing know... in a drunken voice, whats up with you, you got some work for me?.....That shit will just torch right down to anything you don't have to take the old f--ing roof off, I've put the shit down over stone before and never had a call back. I haven't worked in weeks there is nothing out there, I am more broke than I have been in my whole life....I was on some state jobs that paid 40 bucks an hour but now I'm on jobs that only pay 20 bucks an hour (I think to myself, hmm yeah that's awesome how they spend that money at 2x the rate the public is willing to pay) He goes on for 10 minutes about how he has to pay child support and how his ex ripped him off.

AND... that is how you get a roof done for 1800 bucks, lots of headaches with people who will drive you nuts. I know I would have paid 10k for that roof but to me the headaches are worth 8200 dollars.

At the end of the day do you want to roof to look pretty? Are you gonna sit up there and look at it all day? or do you want it not to leak? Is it gonna effect the value of the house if you don't do a full tear off?

The roofer really is like a idiot savant, it's like some kind of magic trick when you put a tape measure in his hand his brain works otherwise he is just a wacko.

 

[jonas1jp]

Straight from the roofers mouth,

I don't f--ing know... in a drunken voice, whats up with you, you got some work for me?.....That shit will just torch right down to anything you don't have to take the old f--ing roof off, I've put the shit down over stone before and never had a call back. I haven't worked in weeks there is nothing out there, I am more broke than I have been in my whole life....I was on some state jobs that paid 40 bucks an hour but now I'm on jobs that only pay 20 bucks an hour (I think to myself, hmm yeah that's awesome how they spend that money at 2x the rate the public is willing to pay) He goes on for 10 minutes about how he has to pay child support and how his ex ripped him off.

AND... that is how you get a roof done for 1800 bucks, lots of headaches with people who will drive you nuts. I know I would have paid 10k for that roof but to me the headaches are worth 8200 dollars.

At the end of the day do you want to roof to look pretty? Are you gonna sit up there and look at it all day? or do you want it not to leak? Is it gonna effect the value of the house if you don't do a full tear off?

The roofer really is like a idiot savant, it's like some kind of magic trick when you put a tape measure in his hand his brain works otherwise he is just a wacko.

I don't want the roof to look pretty; I don't care what it looks like. However, it has to be done right. If there is rot it will turn to mold and structural deficiency. Well, the structural deficiency is already there, but we're not sure about the mold. It doesn't flow to the drains, the sides are way off of regular line, and because of the stone no contractor can tell where all the leaks are. We have to remove the stone because it is the second roof. Someone already did the patch drunken roofer thing because they didn't want to spend the money. Understandable, believe me. If I could do the quick fix thing, I would. But I can't. The quick fix was done years ago, and now I'm left with no choice but to start from scratch.

 

[jonas1jp]

The roofer really is like a idiot savant, it's like some kind of magic trick when you put a tape measure in his hand his brain works otherwise he is just a wacko.

Forgot to comment on this. This is true for so many contractors in home improvement. The people you meet are completely unpredictable. The day we were moving into our last house we built, one of the contractors was in the house and found a chicken bone in the garbage disposal. He started yelling at us about how you can't put chicken bones there. He was seriously pissed. We had been moving in for hours and hadn't taken a break to eat. No idea where that chicken bone came from, but that guy was friggin nutso.

 

[Texas91Brent]

You get what you pay for....if someone already half ass repaired it, dont waste money half ass repairing it more....just wasted money. You might also be careful where you live with permits and code restrictions. Some cities only allow two layers possibly three. I deal with insurance money and usually dont chase low bid jobs.....but with this economy, there are some very hungry roofers....thank God I am not one at the moment!! Anyway, you can save money by getting low bids, and if a warranty is not that important, drive either to job sites and hire the installers direct without a company. That should save you aprox. 25% off cost. Then go to your local roofing supply house and buy the material yourself....Not Home Depot or Lowes....The sales rep at the roofing supply house along with the roofer should be able to assist you in what and how much material is needed. With the condition of your decking, I would remove all layers of roof and replace decking as needed. Your final option is either keep taking bids or ask the ones you have if they are willing to lower the final price....This is not how I do business, but it can be done...Maybe the roofing company will allow a partial or complete credit card purchase? Just some ideas.......Good luck....

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Don't know much about flat roofs, but this guy might:

 

[jonas1jp]

You get what you pay for....if someone already half ass repaired it, dont waste money half ass repairing it more....just wasted money. You might also be careful where you live with permits and code restrictions. Some cities only allow two layers possibly three. I deal with insurance money and usually dont chase low bid jobs.....but with this economy, there are some very hungry roofers....thank God I am not one at the moment!! Anyway, you can save money by getting low bids, and if a warranty is not that important, drive either to job sites and hire the installers direct without a company. That should save you aprox. 25% off cost. Then go to your local roofing supply house and buy the material yourself....Not Home Depot or Lowes....The sales rep at the roofing supply house along with the roofer should be able to assist you in what and how much material is needed. With the condition of your decking, I would remove all layers of roof and replace decking as needed. Your final option is either keep taking bids or ask the ones you have if they are willing to lower the final price....This is not how I do business, but it can be done...Maybe the roofing company will allow a partial or complete credit card purchase? Just some ideas.......Good luck....

Very good insight, indeed. I appreciate all the participation. I'll keep you updated throughout the process. Unfortunately, the roof is going to be the easy part. I'll have to update everyone at a later date regarding the details. I really hope at that time I'm bringing good news to the table. Only time will tell.

Joe

 

[Hrant]

My $0.02 on this as I have had some unbelievable experience.

First, take whatever advice you can; Texas91Brent is offering great advice so capitalize on his knowledge and good will.

Given that you have a flat roof, be prepared to make any upgrades if and when they determine that it is necessary to replace the boards. I was caught off guard when that became an issue and the roofers were not willing to wait as that would have been a "change order" ... "time is money" ...."forecast is rain" ....... you get the picture. Had I known that almost all my boards were to be replaced as preventative measure (some were soft so they needed it anyway), I would have planned to put extra phone lines, cable lines, new lighting fixtures, and perhaps even upgrade my 40 year old insulation.

Do take pictures of all the areas where you have vents. The supervisor had the audacity to argue with me and complain to his company over the phone which I overheard that I was being a pain. I called him on it and asked another supervisor be sent ........ this, after I insisted that they missed the two kitchen vents, as well as the bathroom vent. They just nailed the boards and were going full steam. They asked me to be at risk if I was wrong and I went for it. they didn't even apologize when the vents were right where I said they should be.

Lastly, 3 years later I was having some concerns with rot on the fascia due to poor drainage; and after doing some research about the material used, I found out that the material was warranted for 20 years if it was for commercial purpose but not for residential use! Also found out that they didn't use neoprene nails yet they passed the local city inspection who upon a revisit noticed it! Fortunately, I had 5 years workmanship warranty and with the help of ready in-house lawyer, they fixed what should have been done the first time - this time they used an older independent contractor at their full expense that was absolutely top notch (he used to work for them as a supervisor and was not shy to tell them they messed up). The cost of the repairs 5 years later was more than the initial cost of the entire roof. I saw the bill he submitted!!

And this roofing company was the second most expensive bid out of four. I went with what I thought was their reputation and how they presented themselves. But then again, the sales people were not there 3 years later.

With all respect to Texas91Brent, in my experience, roofers seem to be a different breed :tongue:

YMMV

 

[OutbackKY]

We bought our house, and the flat-roofed addition added by the previous owner leaked like a sieve. We knew that a pitched roof was better, and asked about building it over the flat. Our contractor surprised us (in a good way) when he suggested adding another floor to that area of the house. He explained that adding square footage was nearly the same cost as simply adding a roof. The new space joined our existing attic space, and we've made the whole thing into a Master Suite. A great gain from a losing proposition. Could you do anything like that?

 

[jonas1jp]

We bought our house, and the flat-roofed addition added by the previous owner leaked like a sieve. We knew that a pitched roof was better, and asked about building it over the flat. Our contractor surprised us (in a good way) when he suggested adding another floor to that area of the house. He explained that adding square footage was nearly the same cost as simply adding a roof. The new space joined our existing attic space, and we've made the whole thing into a Master Suite. A great gain from a losing proposition. Could you do anything like that?

An excellent idea. Unfortunately we can't do this without destroying the integrity of the home. One thing I don't need is more room. Now if he told me he could add another garage, I'd sacrifice the integrity of the home in an instant! :wink:

 

[jonas1jp]

Fortunately, I had 5 years workmanship warranty and with the help of ready in-house lawyer, they fixed what should have been done the first time - this time they used an older independent contractor at their full expense that was absolutely top notch (he used to work for them as a supervisor and was not shy to tell them they messed up). The cost of the repairs 5 years later was more than the initial cost of the entire roof. I saw the bill he submitted!!

YMMV

Was the 5-year workmanship warranty a deal you worked with this particular company, or was it standard?

Firestone product? I think this is one of very few that offer this warranty.

Sounds like your luck is about as good as mine. Hope it gets better for both of us. Thanks for the tips!

Joe

 

[Hrant]

Was the 5-year workmanship warranty a deal you worked with this particular company, or was it standard?

Firestone product? I think this is one of very few that offer this warranty.

Sounds like your luck is about as good as mine. Hope it gets better for both of us. Thanks for the tips!

Joe

I just looked at the details, it was actually 3 years in their standard contract - ie, included in the price they bid anyway but litlle did they know it will bite them!

Material over baords was mop type IV asphalt and then apply SBS modified MB 100 cap sheet white granulate - I believe this is what they call ConGlass - aka consolidated fiberglass. Too technical for me. The granulate has been a pain in the gutter as it clugs it even now after 10 years!

I am sure Texas91Brent will chime in saying this is old technology and I was taken ..... :biggrin:

 

[jonas1jp]

I just looked at the details, it was actually 3 years in their standard contract - ie, included in the price they bid anyway but litlle did they know it will bite them!

Material over baords was mop type IV asphalt and then apply SBS modified MB 100 cap sheet white granulate - I believe this is what they call ConGlass - aka consolidated fiberglass. Too technical for me. The granulate has been a pain in the gutter as it clugs it even now after 10 years!

I am sure Texas91Brent will chime in saying this is old technology and I was taken ..... :biggrin:

Well, I guess he can tell me about the Firestone material then also! I've been told from several of the contractors that it is the best, but you know how Chevy salesmen sell Chevys. Someone always believes it.

 

[chudson1549]

Did they give you any tech data on the type of firestone membrane they are want to use? In Charleston, we stopped using the rubber type membrane due to UV degradation.
I am an architect and over the (30+)years we have not had good success with certain rubber products from firestone in our area as flat roof (deck) installations. I would take the advice of some of these guys and look for the product that is best for your region.

If it's the firestone..then check the UV resistant.. I will say that if you're planning on just making the repair and getting out then not problems. We have seen the product used fail after 6 years of use. This is with good slope no standing water. Sleeper system with decking across the surface to the guardrail and the product still started to leak after 6 years full sun.

HTH

 

[Hrant]

To confuse you more ........... a few houses down a new roof is being installed and I see the name RIDGLASS. So I guess conglass, ridglass, etc. are perhaps the same "type" of material.

But one my neighbors used a thick mill vinyl over her existing roof and I preume sume insulating/foam may have been applied first. This was about 6 years ago and seems to still hold to our central valley heat. I understand this type of material is also used on commercial warehouse roofs.

 

[jonas1jp]

Believe it or not, the contractors are just now finishing the roof. It's been an on again off again affair since October. Materials, namely the trim around the edging of the roof were on back order. The damage was much more severe than we initially thought. The whole roof had to come completely off the house. Yes, walk into the kitchen, look up, and see the sky. Completely off. The decking was completely soaked; rotted to its core. In addition, that meant the soffits needed replaced also. Total cost is nearing $70k. Now the litigation with the previous owners begins. To our surprise, a similar case was ruled on at the end of October that significantly helps our cause. I'll update as much as I'm allowed to over the next several months. We're going all in with an attempt to recover this from those who intentionally masked the issues prior to selling us the home. Never thought I'd be in this position. Just turned 32 years old, and I'm in for a legal battle that could stretch past my 37th birthday.