F1 2008 Megathread

You are right - when Brawn arrived, the team was in disarray after a terrible 2007 season. But you'd think - or like to think - that they would make some progress over the course of 2008. STR is now getting both of its drivers into the 2nd and 3rd qualifying sessions. Renault is looking better. Toyota is mixing it up in positions 4 thru 8 during races. BMW is near Ferrari and McLaren in total team points.

It now appears that Alonso is looking to join BMW. Button and Rubens are fine drivers, but Rebens is a bit old and Button has been at the wrong end of the grid for so long, he's lost his ability to even think about winning. The team needs some new blood - a demanding SOB like Alonso and/or a wide-eyed talented youth like Vettel who believes that anything is possible.

It will likely be another 2 years before Honda F1 will be challenging for wins and another 5 years before they can even think championship.
 
http://www.f1technical.net/news/10472?sid=d5a2bfb71565ba31bd961a936075cc97

But back on Honda, seriously, Brawn told them that efforts would be focused on the next car. They had several different design groups working, but no central direction. So, they might have a good front wing, and good sidepods, and a good rear wing, but where they would all work by themselves in a wind tunnel, they wouldn't work consistently on the car. Different parts of the car would be sensitive to different conditions, and modifying one part would make it stop working with another part. Impossible to get a decent setup.

It took Toyota a long time to get where they are, despite having for a long time one of the better engines in F1. I think Honda needs a good development driver, someone who can help Brawn figure out how to make the car work.

Nick
 
where is this calendar you speak of?! :eek::biggrin::wink:
Lud, can we have our quick replies back!???? :biggrin:
 
Ick. Sounds like it's a nude calendar of the drivers. And I do not want to see that.

Now the grid girls may be a different story...
 
Ponyboy said:
Actually, Hamburns gained 5 seconds on Kimi in the previous two laps and would have had plenty of chances for overtaking.
Click to expand...

Hey hey read my comment again. I meant overtaking on that start/goal straight. He wouldn't have a chance to overtake Force India there without gaining unfair advantage because its too short...
 
Re: Honda's basic problem continues unaddressed?

It will likely be another 2 years before Honda F1 will be challenging for wins and another 5 years before they can even think championship.

You are right - when Brawn arrived, the team was in disarray after a terrible 2007 season. But you'd think - or like to think - that they would make some progress over the course of 2008. ………..

But back on Honda, seriously, Brawn told them that efforts would be focused on the next car. They had several different design groups working, but no central direction. …………………Impossible to get a decent setup.
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Yeah, I think we’re back to the harsh reality that Honda management is still not allowing or facilitating focused, close to the action team control. Also Ross is not getting (obtaining) the other support he had at Ferrari. Stuff like this seems to make that point. http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35997
Toro Rosso's highly popular win at Monza not only sees the Faenza-based outfit leapfrog its sister team (Red Bull) in the Constructors' Championship, but demote Honda to eighth, last of the points scorers. Having finished eighth in the 2007 Constructors' Championship, much was expected this year, especially with the recruitment of Ross Brawn.

However, it soon became clear that having created another 'bitch' of a car, the Brackley based outfit would concentrate on 2009, with Brawn insisting that the new rules will suit his team.
However, Pitpass hears that other than its problems on track, there continue to be problems back at Brackley, with internal political struggles continuing to damage the team.
We previously referred to a "culture of fear" within the Brackley outfit, and according to our sources this continues. According to one source; "instead of discussing how we can best improve the package and get to the front end of the grid, people are simply focussing on what they should say or do in order to keep their job.

The truth is that although the recruitment of Ross Brawn was a bold move, the Englishman was never going to be a 'magic fix' for the Brackley outfit. While he achieved phenomenal success at Ferrari, it should be remembered that he was part of a package which included Michael Schumacher and Rory Byrne, a package which had previously enjoyed great success at Benetton.

Within this winning triumvirate, all were equal, no individual was the star. Furthermore, at Ferrari, Brawn was free of politics and allowed to get on with his job, not so at Honda. At Brackley politics is endemic, be it with regards existing employees or people Brawn has brought in.

At the weekend it was reported elsewhere that Otmar Szafnauer (right), Honda Racing's director of strategy and business planning, has left following a "management reshuffle".

According to our sources, however, though Szafnauer, widely regarded as one of F1's good guys, has left the Honda F1 team, he remains with Honda Racing Development, a decision taken at the very top of Honda's chain of command.

For some time we have heard of behind the scene wrangling, with talk of leaks to favoured media sources similar to those witnessed in the final days of Super Aguri.

While the politics continue, the good guys head for the exit and Ross Brawn struggles to get those around him to focus on a serious improvement in 2009.

While those at the top of the Honda 'food chain' have remained relatively quiet, showing extraordinary patience, and ever deeper pockets, one has to wonder for how much longer this can continue.

This morning, in the cold light of day, Honda's 'powers-that-be', will be fully aware that at a race where the fairytale occurred for Vettel and Toro Rosso, its team, under current management, still managed to fill its, now almost customary, arse-of the-grid-spot, with a race result to match.
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Re: Alex Wurtz' worth

It took Toyota a long time to get where they are, despite having for a long time one of the better engines in F1. I think Honda needs a good development driver, someone who can help Brawn figure out how to make the car work.
Click to expand...
What do you have that faults Wertz? I thought he would be a great test driver; kinda like Parker Johnstone; a smart thoughtful engineer type with excellent car control and feel; but not an aggressive enough racer by nature to be competitive. But I’m just extrapolating/speculating, maybe you’ve got some hard data?
 
I don't have any data. I don't really know anything about Alex Wurz, either. It sounds like you do, or at least more than I do. It's not always enough to be knowledgeable, though. You have to be able to express your thoughts to others in a way that they can easily understand them. Can he do that? I'm sure you've had teachers in school whose understanding of the subject matter wasn't matched by teaching ability. All I know is that they haven't had much success developing the car to this point.

Nick
 
Re: Developing the car

I totally agree with your position that knowing and communicating are two different things. And in my post, I mean that good communication with the race engineers is what a "smart thoughtful engineer type with excellent car control and feel" will do. I don't really know about Alex because all I have is a few sound bites and the circumstantial evidence that he was a good driver but, like Johnstone, dropped out from the intense pressure on the track in race condtions. I'm betting lunch that he'll be a good development resource when they have a car that's capable of being developed..........which we all agree does not describe this year's car. :frown:

As I posted above, I believe Ross's biggest challenge is getting the Honda organization under control. A good test driver is probably well down the list of priorities at this time.
 
Alexander Wurz is absolutely revered as a test and development driver. Williams and McLaren adored the guy for the work he did on their respective cars. So much so that McLaren actually blocked a few of his moves to other teams.
 
Re: Ross, don't you have something better to do?

92 white 0650 said:
Like get to work on the car's performance instead of being an art critic and defending "the look"? Leave that useless blather to those of us with nothing better to do......... sheesh :rolleyes:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70778
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Hmmm the new wing is clearly different. Not as bad as some press folks make it out to be. :redface: But so long as it includes a win, so be it. I think earlier in this thread was a post about putting a rubber dildo on the nose cone. Hey so long as it helps and get the points, put two if you have to. :biggrin:
 
Well, the ruling was upheld. :mad: Basically, the ICA wouldn't even listen to the appeal b/c the penalty isn't appealable. I'm no Macca fan but this ruling is crap. I can post the full decision if anyone wants it.

So now I hate F1 - at least for a couple days.:tongue:
 
Re: Certainly looks like a farce

So now I hate F1 -
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I agree. It's awfully easy to do these days with the press putting together this stuff. :frown:
...........The McLaren QC argued that the last year's Japanese GP set a precedent as the stewards in Fuji (headed by Scott Andrews) handed Scuderia Toro Rosso driver Tonio Liuzzi a time penalty for overtaking Adrian Sutil under yellow flags. An appeal was accepted in that case. McLaren presented its case to the FIA before the court case and FIA Race Director Charlie Whiting told the FIA legal department that he had spoken to Scott Andrews about the Fuji decision and said that the former chief steward had indicated that he had made a mistake and that the penalty should have been a drive-through, which could not have been appealed.

The FIA legal team then wrote to McLaren informing the team that there had been an error in the Fuji case and the argument would not work. McLaren, however, decided to check and contacted Scott Andrews in the course of the weekend. According to a statement presented to the court by McLaren, Scott Andrews denied having had any such conversation with Whiting and said that if such a discussion had taken place he would have supported the decision made.............
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http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20792.html
 
Re: Good news, bad news

Anyone up for playing a little good news/bad news while we're waiting for the race?

The good news is that it didn’t rain on F-1 practice :smile:
The bad news is that Force India owner said: “I live here and it rains every day” :frown:
The good news is that Button was 10th and then 8th :rolleyes:
The bad news is, it’s just practice. :redface:
The good news is not many wrecks :wink:
The bad news is it took an average of 8 min to remove a dead car from the track :eek:
The good news is that Bernie had no money invested in WaMu. :cool:
The bad news is that the US is still not on Bernie’s “give a $hit” list :rolleyes:
The good news is that Palin is funnier than $hit :biggrin:
The bad news is she’s not trying to be. :frown:
 
Re: Good news, bad news

92 white 0650 said:
Anyone up for playing a little good news/bad news while we're waiting for the race?

The good news is that it didn’t rain on F-1 practice :smile:
The bad news is that Force India owner said: “I live here and it rains every day” :frown:
The good news is that Button was 10th and then 8th :rolleyes:
The bad news is, it’s just practice. :redface:
The good news is not many wrecks :wink:
The bad news is it took an average of 8 min to remove a dead car from the track :eek:
The good news is that Bernie had no money invested in WaMu. :cool:
The bad news is that the US is still not on Bernie’s “give a $hit” list :rolleyes:
The good news is that Palin is funnier than $hit :biggrin:
The bad news is she’s not trying to be. :frown:
Click to expand...

What did she do? link?
 
Re: Lately, the News shows are better than David Letterman

What did she do? link?
Click to expand...
She explained how being the Governor in the state closest to Russia gave her foreign policy experience. Never mind whether the answer has a point or actual meaning, enjoy the "eloquence" of the delivery. Be sure and click on the embedded YouTube to get the full effect.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080925/ap_on_el_pr/palin

And I loved the 3rd grade level statement at Ground Zero, especially the inspiration and depth of phrases like the "good Americans" and "good New Yorkers." Reminded me of my very hot 3rd grade teacher. :eek: :redface:
 
For all that is good and holy, let's leave any and all mention of politics out of our beloved F1 thread. All political banter is well confined to any of the fanatical, partisan, and melodramatic political threads in the "Off Topic" section or wherever they're at.
 
Re: Just killin' time..........

Awwwwww, you mean you don't want to see a picture of my hot 3rd grade teacher? :confused: Even if I put NSFW in the title?? :rolleyes:
 
Glad to see Caterpillars at the top again. Jenson looking good in 8th so far. Rubens, well he's been off the pace since he placed 3rd a while back.
 

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