Always? Did you read my posts?
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Food for thought - Supra Vs. Viper
- Thread starter angus
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Always? Did you read my posts?
Well...he could come strolling in here. He's a Primer who tracks his NSX among other vehicles pretty regularly, so I'd trust his word.
I've got no beef against em, but when a few people say the same thing, you don't really want to take the plunge and "experience" it for yourself to prove them wrong. :wink: :biggrin:
I completely agree, your Viper was junk. I do not recommend buying higher mileage or abused cars as they will show it. I bought mine 9 years ago with 1800 miles and have treated it well and have had zero issues. Just for the record, the radio is made by Alpine for Dodge and the power mirrors are made by Mitsubishi. The issues you mention are all interior issues. If you buy a Viper and focus on the interior it is not the right car for you. You were smart to sell it. What you get is a clam shell hood over an 8.0L engine and a bullet proof drivetrain. If that is not enough, then keep on looking. The car is not for everyone as it is a love it or hate it machine.
Ford GT > Viper. Just to stir this thread up some.
I really like the styling of the early vipers, but my money would definitely go towards a Ford GT. Classic beyond classic in my eyes. I would definitely choose an NA MKIV (and then swap it) over a viper for many reasons, personal taste being one and the simple fact that I am not a HUGE HP guy.
When people talk about have 1000+hp the only thought that comes into my head is, "Why?" You can't use even 70% of that power ANYWHERE. A lot of money for a car that guzzles fuel as fast as it does money.
I can only imagine how ridiculous I would feel spouting my Viper's 2000hp figures to someone in conversation.
I really like the styling of the early vipers, but my money would definitely go towards a Ford GT. Classic beyond classic in my eyes. I would definitely choose an NA MKIV (and then swap it) over a viper for many reasons, personal taste being one and the simple fact that I am not a HUGE HP guy.
When people talk about have 1000+hp the only thought that comes into my head is, "Why?" You can't use even 70% of that power ANYWHERE. A lot of money for a car that guzzles fuel as fast as it does money.
I can only imagine how ridiculous I would feel spouting my Viper's 2000hp figures to someone in conversation.
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Your whole post has me scratching my head.
This guy is talking about 2nd hand Vipers, $30-50k. Not 150k Ford GTs.
You state that you aren't a big HP guy. That is why huge HP cars don't make sense to you. Why do you have an NSX that can go 165 MPH? 99% of the time you can't use that top speed anywhere.
Its different strokes for different folks.
Viper hands down. You already own a nice piece of Japanese engineering, time to change things up.
Oops... I did the "always" thing instead of the "often" thing. My bad.
Like I said, I wasn't trying to slam him for that remark, it just made me think of all the people (who turn out to be 13-year olds w/o a driver license) claiming that this or that car sucks. We've all seen it dozens of times. No harm intended to usafdarkhorse, and I wasn't intending to attack his credibility, either.
Thanks.
Vipers are cool. Wish I could like them. Drove it and it felt like a boat. And it was unbelievably cramped inside. Engine didn't sound that good either, nor did it pull that hard. (Easily fixed with shorter FD though) Its a sexy car though. I just couldn't get over how uncomfortable it was to get in/ out of, sit in, and drive... I thought I could handle it having driven race cars, but that is a race car and i don't want to drive it every day. Very reliable and fairly cheap to maintain by the way...
The Supra... comfortable... plain, maybe even ugly... easy to drive... boring. Stock isn't very fast, either.
I wouldn't get either car for different reasons, one is just uncomfortable while the other is just ugly, but both cars have potential to run with the best.
The Supra... comfortable... plain, maybe even ugly... easy to drive... boring. Stock isn't very fast, either.
I wouldn't get either car for different reasons, one is just uncomfortable while the other is just ugly, but both cars have potential to run with the best.
What??? What are you comparing to?
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well i've driven Ferrari's, Corvette's, etc... but compared to most sporty/ performance cars, i just didn't love the sound and the gears were too long. it was an early Viper, i know the newer ones are faster.
That is certainly a different opinion, and one I am glad to hear -
I am definitely considering this now and/or a C5/6 vette - as Oyagi mentioned, I already have a Japanese car (a lot of them actually) - so American might just be next - I really want the F355 but maybe it'll have to wait...
I am definitely considering this now and/or a C5/6 vette - as Oyagi mentioned, I already have a Japanese car (a lot of them actually) - so American might just be next - I really want the F355 but maybe it'll have to wait...
Interesting. My car is LS1 powered and it really jumps out there when the gas is first applied, but the Gs kind of plateau above 4500... whereas in a car like a 911 or NSX, it gets increasingly stronger as you climb the tach, so it feels fast in a different way. Incidentally, the higher power band cars do create a much more intense sensation of speed, at least in my experience.
Is this something like what you mean by "it doesn't pull very hard"?
well its really just in the gearing... just way too tall gears. i was expecting a beast that jerks your head back and tears up tires... instead it was none of that due to the extremely tall gearing.
the C5 Z06 is what you'd expect from the Viper... and even the NSX felt quicker than the Viper.
go drive it though, i guess either you'll get it or you wont. i think a corvette is really the way to go. LSx motors are insane and reliable.
the C5 Z06 is what you'd expect from the Viper... and even the NSX felt quicker than the Viper.
go drive it though, i guess either you'll get it or you wont. i think a corvette is really the way to go. LSx motors are insane and reliable.
What I was trying to get at is that the funnest part of my power band is in the 2500 to 4500 rpm range. That is where the torque can really be felt. When I pull to the redline, it's kind of a let down, since 2nd gear comes in close to 5000.
No need for condescending remarks; I'm simply sharing my opinion. The Viper was straight. No issues. No scratches. All maintenance completed. 23k miles. I by no means have been through as many cars as some of the members here. However, having owned an NSX, S2000, Elise, 911, and then the Viper give me a qualified (even if personal) opinion on some of the best sports cars < $100k available in the U.S. I always wanted one, got one, and then didn't see what all the fuss was about. It's a Dodge with a big engine. The Elise has a very minimalistic interior; no carpeting, hard seats, rough ride. But Lotus (for me) succeeded with their concept. The Viper didn't really pull off any concept for me other than the styling. So yes I moved on, and was happy to do it.
I have to say, I'm not surprised by this. Judging by my own car which is American and fun to drive, and very much appreciated as my primary means of transportation, there is a distinct lack of refinement and fit/finish that comes along with it. I have learned to live with it as part of the trade off that comes with affordable speed. When compared to something like a Supra (which I've read is along the lines of Lexus quality, if not finery), a typical American sports car or muscle car has a marked sloppiness about it that (if you're particular about that sort of thing) will leave you wanting.
I was just comparing my utter "meh" feelings towards the new generation vipers and my lust for a GT. I understand that some people love having High HP cars...and more power to them, I just don't see the point. I haven't topped my NSX out at 165 yet, but I have reached the 130+ mark and legally :biggrin: which makes a world of difference to me. I hope to reach even higher top speeds.
To the OP I like the Supras that I have driven...a lot, but I have little experience with Vipers other than the few guys I have spoken to that say they're "scary fast". Go out and drive both...see which one tickles your fancy more. I don't think either one is a bad choice in reality.
edit: 300th post!
I have driven both cars in various states of tune at length, I do see the differences, I was simply looking at the difference in potential between the two as far as HP goes.
Still it is great to hear everyones' opinions on the subject - even the ones who insist the Viper is "junk" - it's certainly no NSX - but that isn't what it is supposed to be, now is it?
Still it is great to hear everyones' opinions on the subject - even the ones who insist the Viper is "junk" - it's certainly no NSX - but that isn't what it is supposed to be, now is it?
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- 31 December 2010
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I haven't owned a TT Supra, one day I will though (unmolested, if those exist anymore). So I can't write about that.
I do own a '97 GTS. It has been by far the most reliable trackable street car I've ever owned. I put over 20,000 track miles on it before I turned the drivers half shaft into a pretzel, but that's after I started modding it with boost and launched on 2-step with about 5psi. So it doesn't really count. Even then, components are low cost. A replacement half shaft set me back $25 from a junkyard. Everything is easy to work on and most parts can be found at the local auto stores.
If you are looking at power adders (when you get bored of the power), get a '96-'99 , they are 4 bolt cross drilled forged steel crank, rods, and forged aluminum pistons. After '99 they went cast pistons.
You can get an already built reliable 1000hp TT Viper for between $45k-60K. Most of the guys are older and wanted bragging rights, but when the actually sit behind the wheel and their first encounter going sideways at 120mph end up selling the car shortly after.
Build quality is nothing near the NSX, you will be greatly disappointed if you are expecting something on that level. But the drivetrain is very solid.
I do own a '97 GTS. It has been by far the most reliable trackable street car I've ever owned. I put over 20,000 track miles on it before I turned the drivers half shaft into a pretzel, but that's after I started modding it with boost and launched on 2-step with about 5psi. So it doesn't really count. Even then, components are low cost. A replacement half shaft set me back $25 from a junkyard. Everything is easy to work on and most parts can be found at the local auto stores.
If you are looking at power adders (when you get bored of the power), get a '96-'99 , they are 4 bolt cross drilled forged steel crank, rods, and forged aluminum pistons. After '99 they went cast pistons.
You can get an already built reliable 1000hp TT Viper for between $45k-60K. Most of the guys are older and wanted bragging rights, but when the actually sit behind the wheel and their first encounter going sideways at 120mph end up selling the car shortly after.
Build quality is nothing near the NSX, you will be greatly disappointed if you are expecting something on that level. But the drivetrain is very solid.
^This sums it up^ what good is 1000hp if you can't use it. I have driven my pops 680whp Zo6 and it is to much. I cant see how any1 would want more power then what the new CTSC puts out on a 3.2 NSX. Anymore would be over kill or "bragging rights".
There is some truth here and some seat of the pants judgements here. What year viper did you drive as the gen1 was only 400 hp? The first time I drove a gen2 viper was 10 years ago and I had a 750hp supra at the time. The stock viper felt "slow" as it has tall gears and stops pulling up top, unlike a turbo motor. However, it will still pull 118 in the quarter so it is more of a seat of the pants thing. To say a NA1 feels faster is odd to say the least as it is not close. Also, LSX motors are very good but you can't compare them to the early gen2 motor for power potential.
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lol. The slowest stock Viper is still faster in a line than the fastest stock NSX. This should just go to show you that you can't judge speed by feeling.
But oh how important the feeling is! For me ts the most important aspect of the experience.
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