Re: The R8 is a great car but...
That's a concept. I honestly doubt it'll ever reach production.
That's a concept. I honestly doubt it'll ever reach production.
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Gave up on Honda...
- Thread starter Jeff A
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The filter elements are much smaller, the big box is to hold the pressure from both of the ram air ducts coming in from underneath the blades.
Here's a picture of the engine bay with all the trim removed. I'll post some other pix (including a few with the NSX and R8 together) soon.
Re: The R8 is a great car but...
Why?
Audi has great expertise and experience with probably the most high performance diesel engines in the world. They have won championships with their diesel powerplants numerous times.
Why?
Audi has great expertise and experience with probably the most high performance diesel engines in the world. They have won championships with their diesel powerplants numerous times.Re: The R8 is a great car but...
>>JD powers? I hope you don't follow their advice in determining reliability or dependability.
Even if you do, just take a look at the Dependability survey and the Acura brand is well above VW and Audi and Porsche. The initial quality survey is very skewed and you will see all sorts of results.
>> There is a significant difference between updating a car every few/several years at one hand and selling as many as you can the first year and then bringing on the big gun engine within 1-2 years of introduction.
>>Many other car manufacturers practicing a tactic does not make it right.
>> Just look at the face/front of the Audi line up and see if you can tell one car from another. That is my point.
>>JD powers? I hope you don't follow their advice in determining reliability or dependability.
Even if you do, just take a look at the Dependability survey and the Acura brand is well above VW and Audi and Porsche. The initial quality survey is very skewed and you will see all sorts of results.
>> There is a significant difference between updating a car every few/several years at one hand and selling as many as you can the first year and then bringing on the big gun engine within 1-2 years of introduction.
>>Many other car manufacturers practicing a tactic does not make it right.
>> Just look at the face/front of the Audi line up and see if you can tell one car from another. That is my point.
Re: The R8 is a great car but...
I know. I think we all wish they would have moved forward. They canned that idea and are probably going with a 4.2-liter TDI V8. In the Q7 SUV, that engine produces 326 horsepower with torque registering in at 550 pound-feet.
Why?
I know. I think we all wish they would have moved forward. They canned that idea and are probably going with a 4.2-liter TDI V8. In the Q7 SUV, that engine produces 326 horsepower with torque registering in at 550 pound-feet.
That was my experience at VIR recently. Another instructor had a GT3 and we were pretty even. I don't know for sure that our skills were exactly even, I did have to push pretty hard to keep up. He didn't seem to be slouching. Here a video of an instructor in a 997S at Sebring trying to keep up with me. It was the first time I had tracked the car and I was not running full out. I backed off at the end, and he caught up with me. The R8 really is that good on the track.
Re: The R8 is a great car but...
Why are you nit-picking Jeff's new car, as if the NSX didn't have its share of shortcomings? In 2005, the RL engine was more powerful than that in the NSX. For those who checked the order box for an auto transmission, they got a laughable 250 HP and a 4-speed, which was bested by several other vehicles in the Honda line-up, including a minivan. The stereo with an in-dash cassette was crap, and the brakes with only 2-pot in front and 1-pot in back weren't anything fitting for a sportscar. The S2000, at about one-third the price of the NSX, was pretty close in just about every performance stat. I could go on and on...
Unlike wifes and girlfriends, you can (and should) look at other cars, appreciate their beauty and capabilities and openly pine for one, even if you have an NSX. If you have the means, you can actually have multiple cars. Polygamy with sports cars is allowed in all 50 states. And trust me, your NSX will not be offended.
As for the R8 being the true NSX replacement, I agree with that sentiment. The NSX, to me, is defined by its short nose and long tail - that look will be totally reversed with a front-engined car. Mid-engine is not only for balance and performance, it defines a look that cannot be duplicated in a front-engine car. So if you want a high-performance (not necessarily max performance) everyday supercar that is reasonably affordable, the R8 is pretty much your best bet.
I am glad you like the R8. It is good looking has ample power and certainly quite rare. BUT, it is not an NSX replacement.
The only NSX replacement will be made by HONDA.
I agree that it seems like we have been waiting for ever for a replacement for the beloved NSX. Finally there is concrete evidence of an extraordinary car due to take the place of the NSX. I have, as have other true HONDA enthusiasts, waited for so long for HONDA to do what they are finally about to do and to give up at this point seems unthinkable, at least to some of us.
A few of us are hung up on a mid engine powerplant as a must for the NSX replacement. It is the performance and handling which matters most, the placement of the engine is not the end all of the concept for a replacement. Face it, is the hands of 99.9% of the drivers who are driving on the public roads, a front engine and four wheel drive car is the best possible set up.
The R8 has its strong points but it also has a few things that ought to be considered in a fair light.
First of all it is an Audi. Not the most reliable cars out there.
Second, while it has great handling, it does not have the best or most powerful Audi powerplant. Amazingly enough that powerplant has found its first use in a four door Audi sedan and a station wagon before the Audi R8
Third, much less expensive but almost equally powerful mid engine cars are planned by Audi [?TT replacement] and parent company VW.
Fourth, Audi seems to be using the front design treatment complete with the staring LCD headligths for several of its models. That takes away from the "exotic" looks of the R8.
Fifth, and most importantly [this is after all an Acura/Honda NSX forum:wink:], it is not made by the best automotive company in the world, hands down, HONDA. HONDA's engineering is legend.
What HONDA did almost two decades ago should be some indication of what is about to be unleashed by the very same powerhouse.
But if you just had to purchase a non HONDA product, you could have done a lot worse. So congratulations:smile:
Why are you nit-picking Jeff's new car, as if the NSX didn't have its share of shortcomings? In 2005, the RL engine was more powerful than that in the NSX. For those who checked the order box for an auto transmission, they got a laughable 250 HP and a 4-speed, which was bested by several other vehicles in the Honda line-up, including a minivan. The stereo with an in-dash cassette was crap, and the brakes with only 2-pot in front and 1-pot in back weren't anything fitting for a sportscar. The S2000, at about one-third the price of the NSX, was pretty close in just about every performance stat. I could go on and on...
Unlike wifes and girlfriends, you can (and should) look at other cars, appreciate their beauty and capabilities and openly pine for one, even if you have an NSX. If you have the means, you can actually have multiple cars. Polygamy with sports cars is allowed in all 50 states. And trust me, your NSX will not be offended.
As for the R8 being the true NSX replacement, I agree with that sentiment. The NSX, to me, is defined by its short nose and long tail - that look will be totally reversed with a front-engined car. Mid-engine is not only for balance and performance, it defines a look that cannot be duplicated in a front-engine car. So if you want a high-performance (not necessarily max performance) everyday supercar that is reasonably affordable, the R8 is pretty much your best bet.
Re: The R8 is a great car but...
I am NOT nitpicking anyone's car! I am simpling pointing out a few facts unlike most of you guys who seem to think that the R8 is the greatest car that was ever built
Even if Jeff or anyone else had bought himself a real drivers car like the Ferrari Scuderia, in this forum, I have every right to say what I like and dislike about that car. Comprende amigo
If you think I like only the NSX and nothing else, you do not have a clue. I have owned more cars of more makes than you can dream. It is based on that experience that I love HONDA and NSX in particular.
Get the blinders off your eyes, please.:smile:
I am NOT nitpicking anyone's car
! I am simpling pointing out a few facts unlike most of you guys who seem to think that the R8 is the greatest car that was ever builtEven if Jeff or anyone else had bought himself a real drivers car like the Ferrari Scuderia, in this forum, I have every right to say what I like and dislike about that car. Comprende amigo
If you think I like only the NSX and nothing else, you do not have a clue. I have owned more cars of more makes than you can dream. It is based on that experience that I love HONDA and NSX in particular.
Get the blinders off your eyes, please.:smile:
That's awesome Jeff. I can't wait to see it in action!
Re: The R8 is a great car but...
First of all, I just asked a question - why you felt you needed to point out all of the flaws of someone's brand new car when the NSX suffered from nearly every same issue in its day. When someone I know gets a new car, I'm more of the mind to say "... I really like what they did here... and this is really cool here..."
Second, I never said anything about the R8 being the greatest car - in fact, I've never bothered to even discuss the "greatest car" because it is a pointless discussion.
Third, you do have the right to say your piece on these forums, we all do. I never suggested otherwise. I just asked you a question - why you got to hot and defensive is a mystery.
As for owning more cars, etc. - you don't know me, so you have no basis for that statement.
Finally, your statements of "...best company in the world ...hands down ...legend..." and all of the subjective hyperbole clearly indicate who has the blinders on.
For the record, I have two NSX's, one of which is a near-perfect rebuild of the 1996 LeMans NSX, right down to its carbon fiber body panels, electronic dash, EFI Technology engine management and telemetry system, and 3.0L engine that made 352 RWHP on Shad's dyno a few months ago (FYI, the blue and white NSX at Shad's shop is my car). The engine alone for this project was $80k.
I also have (actually, the wife's DD) a 2005 RL, so I also appreciate Honda products.
I am NOT nitpicking anyone's car
Even if Jeff or anyone else had bought himself a real drivers car like the Ferrari Scuderia, in this forum, I have every right to say what I like and dislike about that car. Comprende amigo
If you think I like only the NSX and nothing else, you do not have a clue. I have owned more cars of more makes than you can dream. It is based on that experience that I love HONDA and NSX in particular.
Get the blinders off your eyes, please.:smile:
First of all, I just asked a question - why you felt you needed to point out all of the flaws of someone's brand new car when the NSX suffered from nearly every same issue in its day. When someone I know gets a new car, I'm more of the mind to say "... I really like what they did here... and this is really cool here..."
Second, I never said anything about the R8 being the greatest car - in fact, I've never bothered to even discuss the "greatest car" because it is a pointless discussion.
Third, you do have the right to say your piece on these forums, we all do. I never suggested otherwise. I just asked you a question - why you got to hot and defensive is a mystery.
As for owning more cars, etc. - you don't know me, so you have no basis for that statement.
Finally, your statements of "...best company in the world ...hands down ...legend..." and all of the subjective hyperbole clearly indicate who has the blinders on.
For the record, I have two NSX's, one of which is a near-perfect rebuild of the 1996 LeMans NSX, right down to its carbon fiber body panels, electronic dash, EFI Technology engine management and telemetry system, and 3.0L engine that made 352 RWHP on Shad's dyno a few months ago (FYI, the blue and white NSX at Shad's shop is my car). The engine alone for this project was $80k.
I also have (actually, the wife's DD) a 2005 RL, so I also appreciate Honda products.
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Great choice on the R8 Jeff. "Gave up on Honda" is right. FR is too mundance after having MR. It's not all about performance numbers folks. If that is one's objective, go buy a Scuderia, GTR, or ZR1. The greatest benefit of Mid-engine is about driver feel. Short nose gives drivers a commanding view. And the engine note behind you head make you feel one with the car. The mass centralization of mid-engines makes the snap with every steering input. These attributes alone makes the difference that are not reflected in performance numbers. Fukui doesn't understand it. But Soichiro and Uehara does. I speculate that Uehara "retirement" has nothing to do with retirement. He disagreed with the direction of the NSX and parted camp. Publicly he was being polite about honda's direction. Read between the lines on what he said and you'll understand he didn't agree with the direction of going FR.
R8 is it.
R8 is it.
Re: The R8 is a great car but...
Owning and appreciating are totally different animals.
As far as my statement that HONDA is the best car company in the world...becuase of its engineering prowess....I stand by that statment. NO other car company compares with HONDA's engineering prowess.
From the manufacture of little walk behind lawn mowers to air plane engines and from little HONDA bike engines to F1 screamers, HONDA produces more engines on the planet than anyone else.
Owning and appreciating are totally different animals.
As far as my statement that HONDA is the best car company in the world...becuase of its engineering prowess....I stand by that statment. NO other car company compares with HONDA's engineering prowess.
From the manufacture of little walk behind lawn mowers to air plane engines and from little HONDA bike engines to F1 screamers, HONDA produces more engines on the planet than anyone else.
Yeah Right!
And in that case you should get yourself a piece of this perfection that Audi has bestowed upon the automotive world in general and the poor NSXers who have been wronged by HONDA in not giving them a mid engine car, EVEN THOUGH the NSX replacement car will beat the NSX in every performance category not to mention the interior quality.
By the way read a little bit more about the dynamics of a MR platform compared to a FR or a F all wheel and see which is the ideal platform for 99 % of the drivers driving on PUBLIC ROADS.
Passionate cars insprire passionate drivers, eh?
Here's some more pictures. Apologies for the quality on some of them, the lighting was bad that day and my camera is not the greatest. This NSX is a 92 with a full Wings West body kit, CF hood, NSX-R suspension, and a ton of other mods. The R8 is stock except for a high-performance exhaust. The R8 is 5 inches wider, and 4 inches taller. It weighs 400 pounds more then the NSX. Both are made almost entirely of aluminum. The R8 has 420 horsepower, 4 wheel drive, and magnetic suspension (struts are filled with a fluid that can change it's viscosity with applied magnetic field, which it controls in real-time).
Here's some more pictures. Apologies for the quality on some of them, the lighting was bad that day and my camera is not the greatest. This NSX is a 92 with a full Wings West body kit, CF hood, NSX-R suspension, and a ton of other mods. The R8 is stock except for a high-performance exhaust. The R8 is 5 inches wider, and 4 inches taller. It weighs 400 pounds more then the NSX. Both are made almost entirely of aluminum. The R8 has 420 horsepower, 4 wheel drive, and magnetic suspension (struts are filled with a fluid that can change it's viscosity with applied magnetic field, which it controls in real-time).
About $130K
And I agree with SilverF16. I want a MR car, not the Aston Martin Vantage knockoff the "new NSX" is apparently going to be. To each his own. If that floats your boat, go for it.
Jeff
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so which one is faster at VIR??
Congrats on the purchase; I almost bought an R8 myself (wait list was daunting), but didn't do it when I saw the new car protos humming around the 'Ring. I am going to wait to see what Honda has in store for us before pulling the trigger.
As far as being hung up on MR, FR, FWD blah blah blah I couldn't give a rats rear end where they put the motor, it's all in weight, balance, dynamics, and transfer for me. The R8 is a truly great auto and should be recognized as such. It's track prowess is not at pinnacle today, but neither has the NSX been since birth. It's all about day-to-day liveability with both your cars pictured. True, Audi's reliability leaves a LOT to be desired in my experience- my 2005 S4 suffered a clutch failure, a shot wheel bearing, an alternator failure, and numerous smaller design fault failures in the first 30k miles. The NSX has 165k HARD miles on it, with only a single clutch replaced and one shrinking upper windshield gasket from the heat. Zippo problems, with poor brake cooling only evidenced after hard track abuse, which was easily fixed with a pair of 993 brake scoops and a hole in the splash guard. That kind of reliability record is gonna be very hard for any car to beat.
I, personally, as an NSX owner and auto enthusiast am taking a wait-and-see approach to the almost here car. Given the 'Ring performance, it looks to be a 'harder edged' car than the current R8, which my track sensibility longs for after these years with our relatively under-powered cars, and will stand well with any fine GT.
I'm sure you'll enjoy the car- Audi gets it. Give us a 1 year reliability report, if you wouldn't mind.
Cheers,
John
As far as being hung up on MR, FR, FWD blah blah blah I couldn't give a rats rear end where they put the motor, it's all in weight, balance, dynamics, and transfer for me. The R8 is a truly great auto and should be recognized as such. It's track prowess is not at pinnacle today, but neither has the NSX been since birth. It's all about day-to-day liveability with both your cars pictured. True, Audi's reliability leaves a LOT to be desired in my experience- my 2005 S4 suffered a clutch failure, a shot wheel bearing, an alternator failure, and numerous smaller design fault failures in the first 30k miles. The NSX has 165k HARD miles on it, with only a single clutch replaced and one shrinking upper windshield gasket from the heat. Zippo problems, with poor brake cooling only evidenced after hard track abuse, which was easily fixed with a pair of 993 brake scoops and a hole in the splash guard. That kind of reliability record is gonna be very hard for any car to beat.
I, personally, as an NSX owner and auto enthusiast am taking a wait-and-see approach to the almost here car. Given the 'Ring performance, it looks to be a 'harder edged' car than the current R8, which my track sensibility longs for after these years with our relatively under-powered cars, and will stand well with any fine GT.
I'm sure you'll enjoy the car- Audi gets it. Give us a 1 year reliability report, if you wouldn't mind.
Cheers,
John
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TC's bigger brother from another mother?
Great choice
Jeff, Your new car looks great! If you get a chance next week, please come by the shop with the R8 so we can check it out. I want to go to the Barber event this Sat. to see your car, but it is all full. :frown:
Jeff, Your new car looks great! If you get a chance next week, please come by the shop with the R8 so we can check it out. I want to go to the Barber event this Sat. to see your car, but it is all full. :frown:
Hey Eiffel -
If you want to go to the effort of the 90 minute drive to Barber this weekend, I'll take you out as a passenger. Just show up on either Saturday or Sunday.
Jeff
If you want to go to the effort of the 90 minute drive to Barber this weekend, I'll take you out as a passenger. Just show up on either Saturday or Sunday.
Jeff
Johnnymo -
Yes, I agree reliability is an area of concern for me. My NSX has also been a Rock of Gibralter in that area. But recently, I've been getting a lot of reports from Acura owners on problems with their new TXs and RLs and such. And Audi's reliability has been improving. I did buy the maximum 5-year service contract on the R8. So far so good, no problems at all in the first 6 weeks of ownership - other than a cracked windshield which was apparently a stress crack. The owner's manual mentions the windshield is only single layer and is fragile. They are going to replace it at no charge since it wasn't a rock ding incident. When I brought it in for them to look at, this specialist guy with a heavy german accent came out {assume german accent here} "unt inspected it vif his special eye loop unt took many piktures und said Ya, that is not from a rock". It was very amusing.
I really like the MR format, such as in the Ferrari 360 and now 430. But that is the opposite of a high-mileage reliable car (and is a lot more $), so the R8 seems like a great option as the NSX was years ago.
We'll see. I'll let you know how it goes.
Jeff
Yes, I agree reliability is an area of concern for me. My NSX has also been a Rock of Gibralter in that area. But recently, I've been getting a lot of reports from Acura owners on problems with their new TXs and RLs and such. And Audi's reliability has been improving. I did buy the maximum 5-year service contract on the R8. So far so good, no problems at all in the first 6 weeks of ownership - other than a cracked windshield which was apparently a stress crack. The owner's manual mentions the windshield is only single layer and is fragile. They are going to replace it at no charge since it wasn't a rock ding incident. When I brought it in for them to look at, this specialist guy with a heavy german accent came out {assume german accent here} "unt inspected it vif his special eye loop unt took many piktures und said Ya, that is not from a rock". It was very amusing.
I really like the MR format, such as in the Ferrari 360 and now 430. But that is the opposite of a high-mileage reliable car (and is a lot more $), so the R8 seems like a great option as the NSX was years ago.
We'll see. I'll let you know how it goes.
Jeff
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