Grinding 2nd to 3rd

[nsxtasy]

My guess is that this is how transmissions work, so a six-speed would be just as susceptible to this over time as a five-speed would. However, I would also guess that this problem has not appeared yet in very many six-speeds, just because they are newer, are thus are in general less likely to have as many miles, and are less likely to have been tracked as the older five-speed coupes.

 

[comquat1]

I just noticed this tonight for the first time (2nd to 3rd @ 8000rpm). What surprises me is the previous owner of my car has had the tranny opened and put the short gears in when he replaced the half cases and had what I understood was the entire tranny gone over because he mentioned some synchros being replaced as well.

Going back to the paperwork I have from Brookfield is says new gears were installed and "ring gear" installed as well. Ken, do you think that is the part you are refering to? I see here the mileage on the car at the time was 35399 and I am now at 44,000 if that helps any.

 

[nsxtasy]

I just noticed this tonight for the first time (2nd to 3rd @ 8000rpm). What surprises me is the previous owner of my car has had the tranny opened and put the short gears in when he replaced the half cases and had what I understood was the entire tranny gone over because he mentioned some synchros being replaced as well.

Since he had it done at the same place I had it done, I'm sure they would have replaced any hub selectors or synchros that were really bad.

Going back to the paperwork I have from Brookfield is says new gears were installed and "ring gear" installed as well. Ken, do you think that is the part you are refering to?

I don't think so, although keep in mind that I'm not as technical as folks around here like sjs or Larry Bastanza. When I've heard the term "ring gear" used, it has always referred to a small gear whose teeth fit into the flywheel teeth, so that the starter moves the ring gear and it in turn gets the flywheel moving. sjs or Larry or someone more technical can confirm whether or not that's likely what it is.

And when the starter ring gear comes off the flywheel while the car has only 800 miles and is still under warranty, you will have to have your car towed from Mid-Ohio to the dealer, where it will take them a couple of days to replace the entire clutch. However, this is a very rare problem, and I only know one other NSX owner who has had the pleasure of experiencing this. Right, Chuck?

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

And when the starter ring gear comes off the flywheel while the car has only 800 miles and is still under warranty, you will have to have your car towed from Mid-Ohio to the dealer, where it will take them a couple of days to replace the entire clutch. However, this is a very rare problem, and I only know one other NSX owner who has had the pleasure of experiencing this. Right, Chuck?

How can the starter ring gear comes off the flywheel? The stock flywheel and aftermarket flywheel with the exception of comptech are 1 piece. Am I thinking of the same part?

 

[nsxtasy]

How can the starter ring gear comes off the flywheel?

The ring gear that ENGAGES WITH the flywheel, not the gear that is PART OF the flywheel.

It shouldn't be able to come off, but I can assure you, it can, and did.

 

[blknsxnoc]

Just yesterday, I noticed that mine is doing the grind thing too.

91,600 Miles

How critical is the fix? Should I do it immediately?

What is something like this going to cost? (rough estimate would work).

Thanks.

 

[nsxtasy]

How critical is the fix? Should I do it immediately?

I don't know.

What is something like this going to cost? (rough estimate would work).

The parts cost is minor (a few hundred dollars at most). The labor is the biggest portion. Expect to pay for 12-16 hours of labor at the hourly rate of your dealer or mechanic. Around here that's typically $80-100/hour. So that works out to $960-1600 for labor.

 

[FramerJohn]

Just found this thread today. My car also grinds 2nd to 3rd. I have had the car only a couple of months, I thought I just wasn't driving it right. Previous owner had the clutch replaced under warranty at 21,000 and I know have 30,000 on the car.

 

[nsxtasy]

Just found this thread today. My car also grinds 2nd to 3rd. I have had the car only a couple of months, I thought I just wasn't driving it right. Previous owner had the clutch replaced under warranty at 21,000 and I know have 30,000 on the car.

The NSX should not grind when shifting.

As noted above, the grinding, or crunching, happens in the hub selector and synchros, not in the clutch. So this could happen even with a brand new clutch, I think...

 

[Rockford NSX]

Well, looks like I have lots of company with the 2nd to 3rd gear grinding. I have a 1992 that just turned 40K miles. I noticed the grinding about three weeks ago. But it is an intermittent problem. Sometimes it shifts so smooth, and other times not. I have been trying to narrow down a shift pattern where it happens but without much success. The previous owner had Davis Acura (Bernie Blatnick-Master Tech) install short gears and other aftermarket parts at ~ 30K miles. Although I'd like it fixed, I'm still working on the timing issue. RA is coming up fast with the Badger Bimmers on Oct 4-5th. I'll probably stay in 3rd and 4th there on the track.

 

[nsxtasy]

The previous owner had Davis Acura (Bernie Blatnick-Master Tech) install short gears and other aftermarket parts at ~ 30K miles.

They normally don't replace the hub selectors or synchros when doing a gear swap. Unless they notice that they are worn.

RA is coming up fast with the Badger Bimmers on Oct 4-5th. I'll probably stay in 3rd and 4th there on the track.

I have the stock gears, and I shift into second gear five times each lap: approaching turn 3, approaching 5 and leaving it through 7, approaching 8 and leaving it through the carousel, approaching Canada corner, and approaching turn 14. Even with short gears, you would definitely want to use second gear for turn 5. I don't know which of the other turns you might not go to second because of the shorter gearing of the short gears, but that's one advantage of the stock gears on many tracks.

 

[Osiris_x11]

tracked cars/red-line shifters OR weekend drivers?

This aforementioned problem on the 2-3rd gear...(hub selector/synchro/gear) Is this prominent on cars that have seen some track-time or have spirited drivers (like to make use of the redline) vs. cars who are leisure runners, weekend wagons??? Just curious how rare or often this is.

 

[mskrotzki]

Third Gear Synchro

I am most interested in the answer to Osiris_x11's question. Finding 2 NSXs for sale, both with the same problem on the same day, I'm trying to work backwards: With the problem, how were they driven?

I think I'm already not interested in either.

More on the thread Here

 

[nsxtasy]

This aforementioned problem on the 2-3rd gear...(hub selector/synchro/gear) Is this prominent on cars that have seen some track-time or have spirited drivers (like to make use of the redline) vs. cars who are leisure runners, weekend wagons??? Just curious how rare or often this is.

I think that most NSXs have seen some track time or have spirited drivers, and NSXs that are only "leisure runners, weekend wagons" are in the minority.

What is the percentage of NSXs that are regularly driven in excess of 7000 RPM or 100 mph? I have no idea, but I would guess it's well over half.

Frankly, I think what you need to look for is not a car that has only been driven easy (or, more likely, which the owner claims has only been driven easy) but rather, a car whose owner is so fastidious that the moment anything on the car is problematic - such as a gear that crunches - he has it fixed. THOSE are the cars most worth buying.

 

[Osiris_x11]

al'righty then...

Hmm, so basically this 2nd-3rd gear problem'o is something that just happens. I actually just wanted some insight as to whether particular actions (driving style) would expedite its occurrence...

Indeed these cars are meant to be driven enthusiastically, as well as the fact that the owner needs to be assertive in their upkeep & address anything that comes to light. There is no question in that, whatsoever...

 

[nsxtasy]

Hmm, so basically this 2nd-3rd gear problem'o is something that just happens. I actually just wanted some insight as to whether particular actions (driving style) would expedite its occurrence...

I don't know. If I ever meet someone who only drives his NSX gently, I'll ask.

Seriously, while I do indeed track my car on road courses, I'm pretty good with a clutch, rarely slip it, never do burn-outs, etc., and my clutch surface is cleaner than most. I don't know if many drivers out there are better on a clutch than I am, but I know I am not among the worst.

I also suspect that more owners probably have this crunching than are aware of it, and that some of those who are aware of it probably decide not to get it fixed, particularly if they find out how much it costs to open up the tranny. So it wouldn't surprise me to hear that this condition isn't exactly rare. It's not the way the NSX should drive, but some of the cars out there may have this condition.

 

[BlKeViL]

Hi guys,
I just wondering you guys with short gears ever get the problem fix, cause I got the same problems after put in the whole short gears set with ring and pinion, and would acura dealership give you any warranty for installing those parts ?
Thanks in advance.

 

[nsxtasy]

I just wondering you guys with short gears ever get the problem fix, cause I got the same problems after put in the whole short gears set with ring and pinion

I'm pretty sure the same synchros and hub selectors are used regardless of which gears and R&P you get. So if you are getting grinding when shifting to third gear at high RPM with the stock gears, and it's due to worn hub selectors and synchros, then you will still get the same grinding with short gears and short R&P... unless you replace the hub selectors and synchros when you replace the gears. (Which any good mechanic will know enough to do when he opens up the transmission and takes a look at them.)

would acura dealership give you any warranty for installing those parts ?

Most dealerships will warranty the installation of any parts purchased through them, but will probably not warranty the installation of any parts purchased elsewhere.

 

[JChoice]

I had a well known NSX tech do my short gears and he looked at my synchros and he said everything looked like they were in good shape. He still gave me the option of replacing the synchros but opted not to.

I experience the 2nd to 3rd high RPM grind immediately after getting the car back with the short gears and R&P.

To be fair, it wasn't the tranny work that caused the grinding. I would have experience the grinding sooner had I not been babying the worn clutch prior to replacing it.

 

[comquat1]

I havn't noticed this issue since I had my tranny rebuilt a few weeks ago, however I have not run it up to redline that much either. I've been shifting at 7500-7800 instead. I'm not pushing the car hard enough I guess.

 

[nsxtasy]

I havn't noticed this issue since I had my tranny rebuilt a few weeks ago

The guy who rebuilt your tranny is almost certainly the same guy who replaced my hub selector(s) and synchro(s). I'm sure he took a good look at yours, and if the teeth were worn, he would have replaced them.

 

[comquat1]

I don't doubt it, I got a box full of gears and whatnot to prove it!

 

[timothyaw]

I havn't noticed this issue since I had my tranny rebuilt a few weeks ago, however I have not run it up to redline that much either. I've been shifting at 7500-7800 instead. I'm not pushing the car hard enough I guess.

Your grinding issue is fixed. If you're shifting at 7500-7800 you would have experienced the grinding at this rpm as well IF your hubs and syncros had not been replaced.

 

[BlKeViL]

I'm pretty sure the same synchros and hub selectors are used regardless of which gears and R&P you get. So if you are getting grinding when shifting to third gear at high RPM with the stock gears, and it's due to worn hub selectors and synchros, then you will still get the same grinding with short gears and short R&P... unless you replace the hub selectors and synchros when you replace the gears. (Which any good mechanic will know enough to do when he opens up the transmission and takes a look at them.)
I changed out the whole set of short gears r/p, the machanic replaced my second synchros cause the it worn out, but I never have any grinds when I have my stock gears with r/p.

Most dealerships will warranty the installation of any parts purchased through them, but will probably not warranty the installation of any parts purchased elsewhere.

I bought the the gears elsewhere, but I purchased the synchros from Acura Dealership and they did the installation, will they cover for the second synchro ?
as I stated before, I only noticed the grinds from first to second once in a while (around 15 times within the last 4000 miles) but second to third is almost 8 out of 10 times.

 

[nsxtasy]

I bought the the gears elsewhere, but I purchased the synchros from Acura Dealership and they did the installation, will they cover for the second synchro ?

Ask them!