High-lift camshafts - Get titanium retainers or not ???

[MvM]

I recently read about possible problems with aftermarket titanium retainers in this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105236&highlight=content

However, on the website of ScienceofSpeed, it is recommended getting the stronger valve springs AND titanium retainers if you are planning on getting highlift camshafts for your car.

However, after reading the thread mentioned above, it seems that getting these additional retainers might possible cause more trouble that they are worth.
I've also been told that even if you get the high-lift camshafts and the stronger valved springs, you can still use the OEM retainers just as well.
The only downside would be that the whole assembly would be slightly heavier.
It seems that IF the main reason for the titanium retainers is just weight savings, my question is if the possible damage they might cause to your engine is worth the of 1-2 HP (my guess) the OEM retainers might rob from your possible total.

Can anyone here on Prime give me some more insight into this matter?

 

[titaniumdave]

I am running the titanium retainers on my car, and all the high lift cam set ups I have done. To my knowledge, there have never been a problem with the CT Engineering titanium retainers. I checked it out with Nate and Shad last week.

I would suggest going with them, pretty inexpensive and the reduced weight in the valve train will make parts last longer and work better.

Dave

 

[David]

The answer is 'it depends.' Some aftermarket springs require a specific retainer and clip; others work fine with the OEM parts.

Ti retainers from the brands that were early to market with them had a reputation for wearing out or breaking, but that seems to have been largely sorted out. As long as the retainers are from a very reputable company (ex: Ferrea), I would not hesitate to use them.

My .02.

 

[Patricio]

I've had the SOS titanium retainers and springs for a year now, no issues whatsoever.

 

[mystican]

I think TODA makes different profiles for NSX camshafts...I keep hearing proper tuning with adjustable cam gears is important in maximizing this setup...

 

[CB169]

I recently read about possible problems with aftermarket titanium retainers in this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105236&highlight=content

However, on the website of ScienceofSpeed, it is recommended getting the stronger valve springs AND titanium retainers if you are planning on getting highlift camshafts for your car.

However, after reading the thread mentioned above, it seems that getting these additional retainers might possible cause more trouble that they are worth.
I've also been told that even if you get the high-lift camshafts and the stronger valved springs, you can still use the OEM retainers just as well.
The only downside would be that the whole assembly would be slightly heavier.
It seems that IF the main reason for the titanium retainers is just weight savings, my question is if the possible damage they might cause to your engine is worth the of 1-2 HP (my guess) the OEM retainers might rob from your possible total.

Can anyone here on Prime give me some more insight into this matter?

Titanium retainers are less likely to break at higher rpm's, if ever a miss shift back to a lower gear and over rev can crack the retainer in half and destroy a motor by dropping the valve into the cylinder, TRUST ME I HAVE SEEN A FEW CUSTOMERS WITH THAT PROBLEM

 

[Swift]

Ti has been shown to wear out. A member here reported seeing increasing amounts in each oil change. There are just as strong other metals out there.

 

[nsxotic911]

Ti has been shown to wear out. A member here reported seeing increasing amounts in each oil change. There are just as strong other metals out there.

My experience: DON'T DO IT! My titanium retainers are shaving and there HAVE BEEN reports of bad batches, breaking and then taking the engine.
For everyone that has them, I'd strongly suggest doing regular oil analysis and monitoring them.

I have to basically disasemble my engine for a $4.50 part.

This is just my opinion and your mileage may vary...

 

[nsxotic911]

BTW: Mine are from a uh.. generic manufacturer that I (or even the vendor..)don't really know. I won't mention who I got them from. If you're getting Toda though or a reputable Japanesemanufcaturer like Mugen or Spoon, I'd trust that more than some US manufacturer.

 

[Gansan]

I recently read about possible problems with aftermarket titanium retainers in this thread:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105236&highlight=content

However, on the website of ScienceofSpeed, it is recommended getting the stronger valve springs AND titanium retainers if you are planning on getting highlift camshafts for your car.

However, after reading the thread mentioned above, it seems that getting these additional retainers might possible cause more trouble that they are worth.
I've also been told that even if you get the high-lift camshafts and the stronger valved springs, you can still use the OEM retainers just as well.
The only downside would be that the whole assembly would be slightly heavier.
It seems that IF the main reason for the titanium retainers is just weight savings, my question is if the possible damage they might cause to your engine is worth the of 1-2 HP (my guess) the OEM retainers might rob from your possible total.

Can anyone here on Prime give me some more insight into this matter?

The point of Ti retainers is to reduce the weight and intertia of the valvetrain. When you run higher RPMs and/or more radical cam profiles, you are asking the followers to move farther in a shorter period of time as they slam the valve open, then let it fall shut. When the follower can't follow the peaked shape of a radical cam at high rpm, that's called valve float and it limits the power you can make as well as cause damage. The lighter Ti retainer reduces the mass that is trying to follow the cam profile and gives you a little more headroom for higher RPMs. Stronger valve springs are a way of trying to achieve this same purpose, but from the other angle (more force available to keep that follower in contact with the cam).

 

[David]

If you're getting Toda though or a reputable Japanesemanufcaturer like Mugen or Spoon, I'd trust that more than some US manufacturer.

Valve train components from the top tier US brands are almost always better quality than the parts offered by Japanese vendors. For example, I would take Ferrea parts over ANYTHING from Japan. And a lot of the Japanese parts are manufactured by someone else and just re-labeled (eg. Cosworth makes parts for several of the better Japanese companies).

 

[goldNSX]

Maarten,

Regarding touching the internals of the engine and installing parts that are not proved by Honda for long term reliability WHY TAKING THE RISK? In racing rebuilding the engine is something to be not surprised if something goes wrong, in a daily driver it is a nightmare, normally costwise at least. :wink: