Lack of power in '94 auto NSX

[mattmob]

I've had my red "94 NSX with the 4-speed automatic transmission for 1-year now.* After the thrill of just being seen in and driving the car has worn off I realize that virtually any other car on the road is quicker off the line and faster in roll-on.* Hell, my wifes "01 Volvo C70 whups it!* What gives?* Just because it's an automatic is it that much slower?* I've taken it to so-called experts on NSX's (only later to find out they just say that for the business) and to an Acura dealer for service with no change.* The dealer actually installed what they call "factory" spec spark plugs for over $300 that made very little difference.* I bought it with 72,000 miles on it, perfect condition, no damage history. It does handle like it should, but for $32,000 it should have more scoot than a Civic Si.* I live in Eugene, Oregon, maybe VW buses are the only "exotic" vehicles service techs/mechanics know how to work on.
I'm trying to sell it, but I doubt I'll have much luck with an automatic (I bought it due to back and knee injuries aggravated by shifting) that's weezy.

Mattmob

 

[DocL]

Have you put the car on a dyno to see how much power you actually have going to the wheels? To begin with, all automatic NSX's only have 252hp, so you are already down on hp. You also mention that you live in Oregon, well if you live at a higher elevation you are further reducing the power your car puts out. You don't have too many choices, but you may want to check to see if your car has bad coil packs, ignition, cats, O2 sensors, or a something else that may be causing the problem.

Also, you shouldn't insult those little Civic Si's, they can be faster than you think. :wink:

 

[MisterNSX]

Although "fast" is very subjective, I've owned both manual and automatic NSXs and the automatics are quite fast. They're definately faster than a Civic or Volvo. Perhaps you need to try a 95+ SportShift version? Did someone pull a spark plug off yours?

 

[Tytus]

Why not supercharge it? Hell, you live in the great northwest where I beleive emissions are'nt an issue so you can turbo it for even more power!

Regards,

Tytus

 

[NSXrunner]

"fast" is very subjective

I considered getting an SC for my car. But then realized, I rarely track the car. It's a weekend car. I'm not big on racing. If a Yugo beats me off the line I could care less. The NSX imo still wins on looks and exculsivity and thats enough for me. But again thats me. I'm happy with my auto with the I/H/E. Granted the "H" is still in the works as financial decisions are keeping me from pulling the trigger atm with the folks at Autowave. Hopefully they dont beat me down for waffling next time I bring my car there. (looking to either buy a new home or go back to school for my MBA... )

 

[BD]

You have a 4 speed automatic V6 Honda with "only" 252 HP....

The tests done by Automotive magazines (1990/1991) shows 6+ seconds 0-60 and 14+ second 1/4 mile. Practically every modern cars on the road is going to beat your car. Unless you're racing a Prius or 4 cylinder trucks, the probability of your winning is not in your favor.

Want a fast automatic? For 32 grand, you could have bought a used AMG MB, in fact, those cars will out pertty much every stock NA1 NSX.

 

[Jett]

I have a '94 automatic. It isn't as powerful as the manual cars (270 hp or 290 hp) and is never going to outrun a late-model Corvette, but it is still decently fast. Above 4000 rpm when the second stage of the fuel pump kicks in it pulls pretty good for 252 hp.

I was able to keep up with my buddy's BMW 735i when we raced one night. The 735i is a torque monster. I couldn't pass him uphill but I think I could eventually have taken him by a little on a straight or downhill by virtue of higher top-end speed.

The NSX just isn't a high-torque car like a Vette or BMW w/ 8-cylinder engine. Are you sure you aren't mentally comparing the car to more torquey cars like these that pull harder off the line? I think it is a matter of your expectations and what you are mentally comparing it to. You should be able to outrun a Volvo or Civic, however.

I think of the NSX as being more of a "fast" car than a "powerful" car. So I think maybe your opinion of the car might have more to do with your expectations than with the car itself. The NSX is a light, fast, but not particularly powerful car. A new Ford Mustang GT comes stock with more horsepower now than the NSX ever had. But there is more to fast than just horsepower of course. There is also weight and handling. So although your Dad's Buick Electra 225 with the 455 engine might have been powerful, it wasn't considered as being particularly fast, because of weight and handling. Some cars have all three - a lot of horsepower and torque, light weight, and good handling. The NSX, alas, isn't in this category, and especially not the automatic.

Maybe this will help - In the arena of single-engine aircraft (Cessnas, Cherokees, etc) any aircraft with less than 180horsepower is considered underpowered, and the owners spend a lot of time fretting over having more horsepower, speed, and thinking of ways to spend thousands of dollars or more to pick up ten extra horsepower and a few knots of airspeed. There are several companies who specialize in "speed mods" to improve the performance of these aircraft. When done, almost all of these mods only result in modest gains of maybe 5-7% at best. So they don't exactly turn a tortoise into a hare, so to speak. An aircraft with 180horsepower is generally considered to "have enough" horsepower, particularly since above that number the aircraft necessarily becomes more complex to deliver higher performance. An aircraft with 250horsepower is considered to "have plenty" of horsepower, although some owners still spend tens of thousands of dollars modifying their aircraft to have even more. And finally, the pinnacle of single-engine aircraft performance is the Piper Comanche 400, a 400-horsepower brute, the only 8-cylinder single-engine aircraft ever produced, for only one year (1964). With ownership, you get exorbitant insurance and maintenance costs and extraordinarily expensive overhaul costs, burning 19-22 gallons of avgas along the way for the privilege. So where does your NSX compare along the aircraft scale? I would venture that at 252hp, you "have plenty", and therefore you should be happy and accept the aircraft, I mean car, for what it is.

Assume for a minute that you could make an even trade on a manual-transmission car that is otherwise identical to yours. How are you going to feel then? It will be a little quicker (18 more horsepower) but I don't think you are going to feel like you swapped in a way-more-powerful high-performance engine. It is going to be microscopically quicker. If you were to trade for a 290horsepower car I think you would feel the difference, but I still don't think the difference would be "breathtaking". So, does it matter that much to you that you don't have a more powerful car? If it really matters that much, you should consider selling, trading, supercharging or turbocharging. But if it is more about "mental bragging rights" (how being able to say you have 300 horsepower makes you feel) than anything else, I think you should relax and accept the car for what it is, sort of a "grand-touring" NSX. No one has ever come up to me in real life and said, wow man, your car really sucks because it is an automatic. That only happens on the internet.

Stop fretting, accept your car for what it is, a great little high-performance Honda, and be happy! If after taking a rational, objective look at your car you are still disappointed, I think you will be able to find a buyer. There are usually a few guys around who are specifically looking for an automatic. National (or possibly even international) advertising is key.

 

[SWIFTVISION]

Changing the headers and exhaust makes a big diff in the 91-94 cars. Do that.

And Whats up fellow Oregon NSX'r.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Why not supercharge it? Hell, you live in the great northwest where I beleive emissions are'nt an issue so you can turbo it for even more power!

Regards,

Tytus

I don't think the trans would hold up with the amout of extra HP that either one of those options provides.

 

[baynsac]

Originally Posted by Vancehu

You have a 4 speed automatic V6 Honda with "only" 252 HP....

The tests done by Automotive magazines (1990/1991) shows 6+ seconds 0-60 and 14+ second 1/4 mile. Practically every modern cars on the road is going to beat your car. Unless you're racing a Prius or 4 cylinder trucks, the probability of your winning is not in your favor.

Want a fast automatic? For 32 grand, you could have bought a used AMG MB, in fact, those cars will out pertty much every stock NA1 NSX.
__________________


20 more hp isnt that big of a difference. If the nsx feels slow to you than auto/manual will be the same. NSX is kind of slow compare to other cars I had before Cobra, Camaro SS,etc.
Do you really think there's that big of difference with 20 more hp? The auto shifts perfect consistely unlike some manual drivers. I have I/H/E/Test pipes, BB throtle body, and with my oem 15/16 wheels with track tires I think I can take most manuals. With Nitrous kit I have I know I can beat most 6 psi SC manual nsx's in a quarter mile. I will have offical quarter mile time very soon. I raced a friends Z06 with my small shot and won. Its was close but I clearly won. I told him after the race I used the juice, he says he should still beat me lol. His car is very fast I plan on getting a ZO6 in my stable soon. But the NSX isnt a drag car its not super fast but its fast enough for a daily driver; auto or manual. For the money its the best value for the money. A 1991-1994 nsx, behind that would be the Z06 1997-2004. For the money ($24-34k ) they arent any other cars that give you the best all around performance as those 2 cars in my opinion.

 

[prestonmay]

I considered getting an SC for my car. But then realized, I rarely track the car. It's a weekend car. I'm not big on racing. If a Yugo beats me off the line I could care less. The NSX imo still wins on looks and exculsivity and thats enough for me. But again thats me. I'm happy with my auto with the I/H/E. Granted the "H" is still in the works as financial decisions are keeping me from pulling the trigger atm with the folks at Autowave. Hopefully they dont beat me down for waffling next time I bring my car there. (looking to either buy a new home or go back to school for my MBA... )

Hey get that MBA......I and a friend have an automatic.....the headers both different brands..made a difference on top end, but lost tq and hp on the low end....after all we cant rev our cars at will like a stick,,,,,,technically... The auto is faster then most think..... I have never driven a stock na1 manual...my na1 is CTSC.....Clear Difference.....ON a strip....my auto NSX1 held up well against a 645 bmw.......I was shocked..... Just holding the gears manually in the AUTO---Makes it feel faster......BUT IT IS WHAT IT IS......Still a NSX.....and you rarely hear non nsx owners criticizing---an auto nsx.....NSX manual owners are harder on the AUTO.....while most people who see one, would just be happy to own it..auto or stick.....Reading this board prompted me to get a CTSC 5 speed shortly after getting an auto...and now both are for sale(m6 for sale also) for an 02 plus CTSC or an R8-----since the new NSX seems like it may never come out....lol.... wife is busting chops about so many cars.....that I cant drive.....mid life crisis at 36.....classiccccccccccccccccccccccccccc

 

[BD]

Originally Posted by Vancehu

You have a 4 speed automatic V6 Honda with "only" 252 HP....

The tests done by Automotive magazines (1990/1991) shows 6+ seconds 0-60 and 14+ second 1/4 mile. Practically every modern cars on the road is going to beat your car. Unless you're racing a Prius or 4 cylinder trucks, the probability of your winning is not in your favor.

Want a fast automatic? For 32 grand, you could have bought a used AMG MB, in fact, those cars will out pertty much every stock NA1 NSX.
__________________


20 more hp isnt that big of a difference. If the nsx feels slow to you than auto/manual will be the same. NSX is kind of slow compare to other cars I had before Cobra, Camaro SS,etc.
Do you really think there's that big of difference with 20 more hp? The auto shifts perfect consistely unlike some manual drivers. I have I/H/E/Test pipes, BB throtle body, and with my oem 15/16 wheels with track tires I think I can take most manuals. With Nitrous kit I have I know I can beat most 6 psi SC manual nsx's in a quarter mile. I will have offical quarter mile time very soon. I raced a friends Z06 with my small shot and won. Its was close but I clearly won. I told him after the race I used the juice, he says he should still beat me lol. His car is very fast I plan on getting a ZO6 in my stable soon. But the NSX isnt a drag car its not super fast but its fast enough for a daily driver; auto or manual. For the money its the best value for the money. A 1991-1994 nsx, behind that would be the Z06 1997-2004. For the money ($24-34k ) they arent any other cars that give you the best all around performance as those 2 cars in my opinion.

Sign... 20 HP is not a big difference, but with extra 160lbs, and the power lost transferring to the rear wheel through a 4 speed Auto Tranny with tall gearing, IT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! The % in power lost is greater than a standard 5/6 speed manual.

Just imagine you have a car that has at least 20 hp shy, plus an extra passenger, with super tall gearing, yeah, you will loose approximately 1 second from nil to 60 and 1/4 mile.

Honda flat out said the necessity of having the auto tranny option is for those who doesn't want to shift, but want a car that has a sportier handling characteristic than ML SL 500. That was back in 1989/90.

Also be aware, Honda's auto tranny designed between 80 to early 1990's not not particularly strong. If you drive you car hard, you will most likely need a tranny rebuild well under 100k miles. A good set of header can help with mid-range power/torque, but you really don't want to redline the car every time you drive it.

 

[MartinSD]

Greetings

This is from another thread on Prime:
95 T Cpe C&D Jul-95 3.0 V-6/4A 0-60, s. 5.80
1/4 Mile, s. 14.40
Top Speed, mph 154.00
95 T Cpe MT Jun-95 3.0 V-6/4A 0-50, s. 4.50
0-60, s. 5.80
0-70, s. 7.40
1/4 Mile, s.. 14.30
60-0 Braking, ft. 111.00
Skidpad, g 0.89
Slalom, mph 68.40
Idle, dBA 47.00
60 mph, dBA 72.00
1/4 Mile, s.. 13.70
Top Speed, mph 162.00
70-0 Braking, ft. 170.00
Skidpad, g 0.93

These are from Car and Driver magazine and Motor Trend magazine. A stock automatic is slightly faster than a 330 BMW with a manual transmission.

The original owner of mine ponied her up about 30 HP (This is what the folks at the Acura shop who did the work estimated -- no dyno). They also beefed up the automatic. I don't post GPS info because this crowd was so hard on greenberet after he posted his Broke 300 km / h! thread. Mine will beat my neighbor's IS350 -- all 3 times we dashed by more than a car length.

Martin

 

[baynsac]

Sign... 20 HP is not a big difference, but with extra 160lbs, and the power lost transferring to the rear wheel through a 4 speed Auto Tranny with tall gearing, IT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! The % in power lost is greater than a standard 5/6 speed manual.
Just imagine you have a car that has at least 20 hp shy, plus an extra passenger, with super tall gearing, yeah, you will loose approximately 1 second from nil to 60 and 1/4 mile.

You said the % in power lost is greater in a auto than manual. How much greater? 5% or more?

But with I/H/E you should easily make up the loss of 20 hp. Plus if you get rid of some weight that you never need (spare tire, tool box, etc) you are head to head with manuals. Or get a well built nitrous kit with all the safety features for less than $2500 and take 90% of nsx auto/manuals stock or supercharged. I say there are no more than 10% of nsx out there running more than 400hp. But like I said before if you think the auto NSX is slow than you are not going to be much happier with a stick. Its just as slow. Go get a viper or vette if you want just drag strip car. They cost about the same as a NSX.

 

[MartinSD]

Manual transmissions have somewhere between 15 and 17% power loss. Automatics are somewhere in the 20 - 25% loss. This is if you do not have a lockup torque converter. The difference is close on your NSX when the torque converter locks up, but you are pumping more oil in an automatic (even though it is lighter viscosity) than in a manual.

 

[BD]

Sign... 20 HP is not a big difference, but with extra 160lbs, and the power lost transferring to the rear wheel through a 4 speed Auto Tranny with tall gearing, IT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! The % in power lost is greater than a standard 5/6 speed manual.
Just imagine you have a car that has at least 20 hp shy, plus an extra passenger, with super tall gearing, yeah, you will loose approximately 1 second from nil to 60 and 1/4 mile.

You said the % in power lost is greater in a auto than manual. How much greater? 5% or more?

But with I/H/E you should easily make up the loss of 20 hp. Plus if you get rid of some weight that you never need (spare tire, tool box, etc) you are head to head with manuals. Or get a well built nitrous kit with all the safety features for less than $2500 and take 90% of nsx auto/manuals stock or supercharged. I say there are no more than 10% of nsx out there running more than 400hp. But like I said before if you think the auto NSX is slow than you are not going to be much happier with a stick. Its just as slow. Go get a viper or vette if you want just drag strip car. They cost about the same as a NSX.

Sign...

Again, you're compare apple with orange. Are we even on the same page here?

As I have indicated, a good set of header will do you some good. BUT doesn't matter how hard you try, you can't get the car to match a stock 5 speed. You can't make up for the deficit unless you go force induction!!! Even with that, the tranny will not last long.

Sonny, I have a 02 spec NA2; on numerous dyno system, it put out around 300rwp (295-302 range), with only I/H/E mods. That is at least 10 hp claim by Honda to the crank!!! With all the Genuine Type R and titanium/CF after market parts, it weights less than 2950 lbs. You have a automatic NSX that is at least 200lbs heavier than my car, if the car with standard quality bolt-on parts dyno'd generously at 230hp, you are still 70hp shy. Even if you have comptech SC at standard boost, my car will still destroy your car.

 

[s14_tat]

Sign... 20 HP is not a big difference, but with extra 160lbs, and the power lost transferring to the rear wheel through a 4 speed Auto Tranny with tall gearing, IT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!! The % in power lost is greater than a standard 5/6 speed manual.
Just imagine you have a car that has at least 20 hp shy, plus an extra passenger, with super tall gearing, yeah, you will loose approximately 1 second from nil to 60 and 1/4 mile.

You said the % in power lost is greater in a auto than manual. How much greater? 5% or more?

But with I/H/E you should easily make up the loss of 20 hp. Plus if you get rid of some weight that you never need (spare tire, tool box, etc) you are head to head with manuals. Or get a well built nitrous kit with all the safety features for less than $2500 and take 90% of nsx auto/manuals stock or supercharged. I say there are no more than 10% of nsx out there running more than 400hp. But like I said before if you think the auto NSX is slow than you are not going to be much happier with a stick. Its just as slow. Go get a viper or vette if you want just drag strip car. They cost about the same as a NSX.

hmm if you think there is not much of a difference between a 14.0 car ( a na 1 auto with bolt ons ) and a 13.0 car ( na1 with bolt ons ) than your crazy. That is almost a 100hp difference based on ET and trap speeds if both vehicles weight the same. Yes the NSX is not a drag car, but a auto NSX is a peppy car when a stock 5 speed NSX is a quick car. My car with a great launch should run a 13.0 flat if I didn't care for my clutch or tranny.

 

[prestonmay]

spraying the juice ---lets say a 75 shot is going to give you more power then a SC or stock NSX with 75hp worth on bolts on.....(ie you can control when you get the HP and TQ......

Most DRAG cars i have seen are 3 and 4 speed automatic.........

You can control when you get the 75 hp.....all at one time, progressively....

The Na2 stock pulls as hard as my CTSC up to a certain rpm..............BUT a shot of NITROUS on the STRIP....puts you in a totally different 1/4 time and trap speed....auto or manual....

of course i rather have the 02 ctsc with some bolt ons..... manual....NOS can get expensive and is addictive.....

 

[s14_tat]

spraying the juice ---lets say a 75 shot is going to give you more power then a SC or stock NSX with 75hp worth on bolts on.....(ie you can control when you get the HP and TQ......

Most DRAG cars i have seen are 3 and 4 speed automatic.........

You can control when you get the 75 hp.....all at one time, progressively....

The Na2 stock pulls as hard as my CTSC up to a certain rpm..............BUT a shot of NITROUS on the STRIP....puts you in a totally different 1/4 time and trap speed....auto or manual....

of course i rather have the 02 ctsc with some bolt ons..... manual....NOS can get expensive and is addictive.....

well of course most drag cars are auto matic but that is because they have a high stall torque converter with a transbrake to get the revs up. and most of them runs on a 2 speed power glide.Not to mention the auto in drag racing is all about consistency esp if your going to bracket race where you call up to the .000th of a second for your run time. However for a street daily driven car, driving a car with a purpose built drag tranny will be a nightmare. ( which defeats the whole purpose of having a auto in the first place ) Also comparing a NSX auto tranny to a drag car tranny is two totally different things with different design goals. Overall for anything other than drag racing a 5 speed is better unless you want to include any type of duel clutch auto trans, or a sequential gear box.

 

[remotemonkey]

I've had my red "94 NSX with the 4-speed automatic transmission for 1-year now.* After the thrill of just being seen in and driving the car has worn off I realize that virtually any other car on the road is quicker off the line and faster in roll-on.* Hell, my wifes "01 Volvo C70 whups it!* What gives?* Just because it's an automatic is it that much slower?* I've taken it to so-called experts on NSX's (only later to find out they just say that for the business) and to an Acura dealer for service with no change.* The dealer actually installed what they call "factory" spec spark plugs for over $300 that made very little difference.* I bought it with 72,000 miles on it, perfect condition, no damage history. It does handle like it should, but for $32,000 it should have more scoot than a Civic Si.* I live in Eugene, Oregon, maybe VW buses are the only "exotic" vehicles service techs/mechanics know how to work on.
I'm trying to sell it, but I doubt I'll have much luck with an automatic (I bought it due to back and knee injuries aggravated by shifting) that's weezy.

Mattmob

91 automatic here, it has I/H/E/ SC

http://www.levelten.com/store/acura.htm those guys do crazy things with the nsx auto trans, i suggest anyone looking to beef up their trans to check out level 10.

 

[baynsac]

Sign...
Again, you're compare apple with orange. Are we even on the same page here?

As I have indicated, a good set of header will do you some good. BUT doesn't matter how hard you try, you can't get the car to match a stock 5 speed. You can't make up for the deficit unless you go force induction!!! Even with that, the tranny will not last long.

Sonny, I have a 02 spec NA2; on numerous dyno system, it put out around 300rwp (295-302 range), with only I/H/E mods. That is at least 10 hp claim by Honda to the crank!!! With all the Genuine Type R and titanium/CF after market parts, it weights less than 2950 lbs. You have a automatic NSX that is at least 200lbs heavier than my car, if the car with standard quality bolt-on parts dyno'd generously at 230hp, you are still 70hp shy. Even if you have comptech SC at standard boost, my car will still destroy your car.[/QUOTE]



I don't believe those number you have been posting for a while now and I also don't believe your story of how Honda some how got you a nsx with extra hp/tq than others.
Dyno number are easily altered. Do you have any 1/4 mile time slips? NO? What a suprise. Why not? Why spend all that money on light weight parts if you are never going to see what it can do? I think its because you know you will be very dissapointed.
Dyno number don't mean much unless you can have a time slip also to show that you are actually making something close to your dyno claims.
Again my car dyno'd at around 250 with a small 90 shot will smoke 80% of nsx out there. And my tranny will be fine as I have the power come on progressively so there is no shock to the tranny with a hard hit. It never comes on the first gear and only come on at set RPMS at certain gears. So you can see that there is not much pressure on the drivetrain/tranny. I posted my dyno results but I also said it didn't mean anything to me yet till I get some 1/4 mile times to go with it.
Don't think I am putting your car down. We all know manual and especially 3.2L with a few bolt ons will be faster than the old 1991 auto with a few bolt ons. But with nitrous (SC not needed) your car won't even come close to mine. And if I did do the SC/aem and had it tuned to give certian amount of boost at certian RPMS your car still will be destroyed, so I don't why you think it wont be the case. You said you car can beat mine even if I had a Supercharger
I also don't know where you are getting the 230hp numbers with bol ons. I've got dyno's for 3 auto's and they are all above 250 hp with i/h/e. I did my dyno twice and also did a dyno on a small 45 shot and with just the 45 shot my dyno looks way better than yours. So you are smoking crack if you think you can beat my FI with your non FI nsx. Don't think I take big pride in being able to beat a non FI car either but you brought it up and I wanted to make it clear.

 

[baynsac]

91 automatic here, it has I/H/E/ SC

http://www.levelten.com/store/acura.htm those guys do crazy things with the nsx auto trans, i suggest anyone looking to beef up their trans to check out level 10.

They are going to rebuild mine late this year and also will be adding a torque converter and tranny cooler. I want to do some track event in my stock one first and see how the tranny feels and than beef it up with level 10.

 

[DRIFTER]

Just get a manual and be done with it.

 

[remotemonkey]

They are going to rebuild mine late this year and also will be adding a torque converter and tranny cooler. I want to do some track event in my stock one first and see how the tranny feels and than beef it up with level 10.

its almost a night and day difference between the two, also had a 500 RPM stall added, now it kicks so much into acceleration, if you want to feel more power in the auto, and know it will be safe from destruction level 10 is the way to go.

 

[baynsac]

hmm if you think there is not much of a difference between a 14.0 car ( a na 1 auto with bolt ons ) and a 13.0 car ( na1 with bolt ons ) than your crazy. That is almost a 100hp difference based on ET and trap speeds if both vehicles weight the same. Yes the NSX is not a drag car, but a auto NSX is a peppy car when a stock 5 speed NSX is a quick car. My car with a great launch should run a 13.0 flat if I didn't care for my clutch or tranny.[/QUOTE]

The key word is IF you get a Great launch and IF you don't care about your tranny or clutch you can get a 13.0 1/4 mile time. So that means not consistely, which makes it very close to your auto times. And again hopefully you don't mess up your car in the process (tranny/clutch). You have a time of 13.559 with 107 trap speed in the quarter mile which sounds like what Vance would get if he went to the track.