Lamborghini owner claims NSX is not a supercar

[BladesNSX]

Well I think it's time to define what makes a "SUPERCAR".

McLaren Designer says it is. Lambo Owner (and some NSX owners) says it isn't.

It can't be speed, since the vid that Vance posted showed that an EVO MR can keep up quite well if not faster than the Lambo Murcielago on the track. So according to Top Gear the kooennoennioeggoennnissoeuggooueen (Watch the Video cuz that is how they spelled it :biggrin got a lap time of 1.24; where as the EVO MR FQ ran a 1.24.8 .

I also saw a vid where the NSX was driven by Gan San against other cars, including the both Lambos and the NSX did quite well on par with the other cars. I have that vid on my hard drive but not online, sorry.

Is it reliability? Well, ask prime member Prove4re about the lambo reliability...OUCH. We all know that most "super" cars have issues with reliability that makes the NSX seem invincible.:tongue:

So is it cost? Well, maybe that is it? Maybe you have to spend an arm and a leg on a car to have a car qualify as a "super" car? But then the Lotus Elise shouldn't count. Eh? Who cares.

I think the NSX is super fantabulous (My Word, Patent Pending):biggrin:

 

[BladesNSX]

A supercar for me is a handbuilt limited production(actual production) car that is a purpose built to be more of a street legal race car than a road car.

So if there were only 500 NSXs out there, the NSX would qualify as a Supercar, under your definition of a supercar?

 

[rickysals]

I think if the NSX wasn't a "supercar" in 1991 — then no Lamborghini (with the exception of the LP640) is a supercar either. It depends on your definition, but what the NSX was then fits what the Lambo is now.

The McLaren quote sort of settles it for me. A professional referred to the NSX as a supercar. That works for me.

 

[NSXLuvr]

You guys keep arguing while I go drive my 2 not so super cars:tongue:

J/K. I think its a matter of semantics. I see all car enthusiasts struggle with this. Take this month's issue of C&D. They don't know what to call the R8 and the 911TT. They can't truely call it a supercar(CGT, ENZO, SLR) so they call it the "Everyday Supercar". Whatever that means.

To me a "Supercar" is one that is in a different performance and price catergoy when compared to 90% of the cars offered in the day. Today that would be CGT, Enzo, Zonda, SLR, Veyron. The Ford GT might be able to keep up with some of them but it doesn't meet the price criteria, same goes for the Viper.

 

[Da Hapa]

Honestly, who cares what some Lambo owner has to say about anything?

No disrespect to him or her, and I hope they enjoy their car but the day I start worrying about what someone else thinks or says is the day I realize I've reverted back to junior high.

 

[flaminio]

1) Elite overall performance by today's standards.

I don't agree with this measure. By that standard, you're giving supercars a shelf life. Even the insane supercars of today (Enzo, C-GT, K-egg, Pagani) might end up being own3d by the machines of 2024 -- does that mean that at some point an Enzo is no longer a supercar?

IMHO, once a supercar, always a supercar, and that needs to be measured when the car was new, against its peers.

Is the Ferrari 348 a supercar? If so, then the NSX must be a supercar, as it bests the 348 in every measure. Most F-car owners will quickly grant the 348 exotic status (especially 348 owners), and then just as quickly turn around and dismiss the NSX.

I think there are cultural factors as well. If the NSX had been produced exactly as is but from an Italian or German or British motor shop, we wouldn't be having this discussion -- it would have supercar status almost by default.

 

[ABhagat]

I think lately people have combined the "exotic" & "supercar" classes. Instead of it being just a sports car, to an exotic, to a supercar, people just classify them as either a sports car or a supercar. This whole argument is baseless since it's dependent on your opinion of how an exotic and a supercar are defined and differentiated.

The way I see it, a F355, F360, F430 = exotic. F40, F50, Enzo = supercar.

Would you really put the NSX in the supercar territory?

It's not too bad to be simply called "an exotic."

 

[flaminio]

The way I see it, a F355, F360, F430 = exotic. F40, F50, Enzo = supercar.

Would you really put the NSX in the supercar territory?

It's not too bad to be simply called "an exotic."

By that definition, the Lambo is also not a "supercar", but merely an "exotic".

Personally, I use the terms interchangeably.

 

[mickeylex]

Lamborghini owner claims NSX is not a supercar but claims lotus elise is....

thoughts, comments!

Who cares what some random other car owner thinks of the NSX? Big deal if he thinks it's not a supercar. That doesn't change anything for me.

Do other peoples opinions of my car really matter? I parked my NSX in front my office one day and a guy came out pointing...saying loudly to his coworker - "that's a supercar". I'll take random guy at my office opinion over that of the random Lambo owner. :biggrin:

 

[NSXrunner]

My two cents about my NSX.
Supercar - No
Great (arguable) Sportscar - Yes

Basically my defenition of great is fun and ownership factor. I love the NSX, and wouldn't trade for anything. I'll bet the Lambo is a fun car as well but when it comes to ownership, i'd have to give the nod to the NSX. I've seen some of you guys out there with some large miles 100K plus including hard track time! Don't think I've ever seen a Lambo with high miles. Owners either crash em or once the miles get higher, stick them in the garage to stare at instead of drive.

 

[dyee]

His problem

 

[ABhagat]

By that definition, the Lambo is also not a "supercar", but merely an "exotic".

Personally, I use the terms interchangeably.

I couldn't agree more. The Gallardo & Murcielago are both exotics, but by no means supercars. Maybe the LP640 can be considered a supercar?

It's really sad to say it, but the difference really just comes down to price. The more expensive a car it is, the more exclusive it is, the more likely it will be considered a supercar. If the NSX (in '91) was listed at $350,000, it would have easily been noted as a supercar.

 

[BioBanker]

Who really cares? He owns a Lambo, after all.

But I agree with him. Not a super car. When I think supercar, I think Zonda, not Honda. I dont call Gallardo's or F430s supercars either.

But who cares, I drive an NSX.

 

[squid2004]

I see your point and agree with it now that I reflect on it, however I still don't agree that the NSX is a bona fide supercar. There is no debate when you see a true supercar, it's presence commands attention and you just know it is what it is.

Tell that to the countless people who stop, stare, comment, question, and get excited everytime they see an NSX. Meanwhile every other hot rod and sportscar was out this weekend yet the NSX stood out from the crowd.

It's definitely debatable... but I think most people have a hard time defining what a supercar or exotic really is.

 

[stuntman]

A supercar for me is a handbuilt limited production(actual production) car that is a purpose built to be more of a street legal race car than a road car.

E30 M3 would fall under your definition of "Supercar"

...as well as NSX. Senna and Rahal were involved in it's development similarly to how Schumacher worked with the Enzo and F430.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the NSX was the first production car to have and all-aluminum chassis, body, and engine (all 3). And first production car with a form of variable valve timing. All in a relatively limited production AND hand-built. So, NSX = supercar under your definition?

 

[DocL]

My definition of a supercar is that it has to be capable of 200mph+, have a very limited production numbers, and not be easily available to the public. Furthermore, I shouldn't be able to see one driving down the road here in Boca.

Here are a few cars meet my definition: Enzo, McLaren F1, Porsche 959, Vector W12, Bugatti, BMW M1.

 

[AndyH]

And lamborghini is not a super car either. I agree with DocL on definition of supercar but should include Ferrari F50

 

[blackna1]

Depends on how you define supercar. The Elise handles, brakes and accelerates better than the NSX, so maybe he was just comparing their performance. I mean honestly, I love NSX's, but by today's standards they're nothing special. There are $30k Lancers and Subarus that outperform the NSX. If the NSX is a supercar, then so are Lancers and Subarus and Supras and 300ZX's, etc. etc.

Looks and price are the only supercar qualities the NSX has in today's world. But for what they were in the early '90's no one can deny that back then they were supercars.

And yes, before anyone asks, I do think that the term "supercar" is relative to the times...that is to say, a Lambo Diablo may be considered one today, but ten years from now it probably will be in the same boat as the NSX.

I must disagree to this, if the subies and mitsus are called supercars b/c they out perform NSX, then what about that episode of Top Gear where the EVO beat the lambo murcielago. Or what about the Ariel Atom 2 beating almost every production car, is it a supercar? NO. It is just a fun car like an elise.

Supercar defines the benchmark of the production car industry. Obviously the nsx set some new standards in production car, and many firsts: first practical supercar, first all aluminum, etc.

On top of that all the extras: forged Ti piston rod, forged aluminum suspension components, forged wheels, all in the effort to increase performance and reduce weight. That's what a supercar is.

If the nsx hadn't been so great, why would people collect them and why would people buy them now, why would they still be running around, and not parked in a museum (garage), simply because the standards it had established in 1991 still holds. And no other car could over take those standards. Once some other 'new supercar' overtakens its place, then they will be parked and people will move on to drive that supercar.

 

[dlynes]

guys i am sorry for making this thread...i went at it all wrong, i should have restated everything in a better way...i was looking for everyones comments and information, not looking at bashing lambo owners or making lots of controversy

 

[Dan Ciezniewzki]

Im a Lambo owner, and I think the NSX kicks ass :biggrin:

super car? no, exotic? HELL YES!!
and the Diablo is not a super car eighter

NSX=best car Ive ever owned, and probulay ever will....all around

 

[dlynes]

I think lately people have combined the "exotic" & "supercar" classes. Instead of it being just a sports car, to an exotic, to a supercar, people just classify them as either a sports car or a supercar. This whole argument is baseless since it's dependent on your opinion of how an exotic and a supercar are defined and differentiated.

The way I see it, a F355, F360, F430 = exotic. F40, F50, Enzo = supercar.

Would you really put the NSX in the supercar territory?

It's not too bad to be simply called "an exotic."

i completely agree... supra, Z06=sports car...nsx= exotic...super car=^

 

[ediddynsx]

NSX = Best exotic in its class, most reliable, capable of being daily driven, built in its time when it came out.

Supercar = F40 for its time.

 

[mickeylex]

Sorry for the long post, but here is a viewpoint from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercar

Supercar is a term used for a high end sports car, typically an exotic or rare one, whose performance is highly superior to that of its contemporaries. The proper application of the term is subjective and disputed, especially among enthusiasts. The use of the term is dependent on the era: a vehicle that is considered to be a supercar at one time may not retain its superiority in the future. The automotive press frequently calls new exotic cars "supercars".

Origin of the term - (Note that the term started w/ a Lamborghini)
The designation supercar was first applied to the Lamborghini Miura in a review by legendary British motor journalist L. J. K. Setright

Performance criteria
The term supercar usually refers to factory-built, street-legal sports cars, rather than modified production cars that may have similar performance. Supercars are usually designed for road and amateur track use rather than racing alone, and because of this their standard equipment often does not include roll cages and other features required for race cars.

Design
Many supercars have a rear mid-engine (RMR), rear-wheel drive layout, which allows for better distribution of weight. This potentially increases overall traction, or grip, by moving weight away from the front and back ends of the car. The result is often handling, acceleration and braking capabilities that may have otherwise have been impossible to attain. Some supercar makers have started building all-wheel-drive supercars as new engines are producing more power than two wheels can take advantage of. For an example, see Bugatti Veyron.

Power-to-weight ratio
Most supercars have high engine power and low vehicle weight (or more technically, mass), for the sake of high acceleration (see Newton's Second Law) and good handling dynamics. For example, the 2004 Porsche Carrera GT masses just 3 kilogram per kilowatt (5 lb/hp)—compare this to the similarly sized and shaped Porsche Boxster with nearly 7.1 kg/kW (11.7 lb/hp). The McLaren F1, introduced in 1991 and one of the fastest supercars of the 20th century, produced 467.6 kW (627.1 hp) against a mass of 1140 kg (2513 lb), translating to 2.44 kg/kW (4.01 lb/hp). Certain vehicles have a high power-to-weight ratio despite their heavy weight, due to a very powerful engine. For example, the Bugatti Veyron carries 2.61 kg/kW (4.30 lb/hp) despite weighing 1950 kg (4299 lb), including fuel [1], due to its 746 kW (1001 hp) engine. The Koenigsegg CCR and Koenigsegg CCX have the highest power-to-weight ratio among production supercars: with 601 kW (806 hp) (on California grade 91 octane gasoline) and a weight of just 1,180 kg (2,601 lb) the Koenigsegg carries only 1.96 kg/kW (3.23 lb/hp). According to the Shelby Super Cars website, the Ultimate Aero TT holds the new production record, carrying a mere 1.42 kg/kW (2.33 lb/hp).

Acceleration
Supercars, by the usual definition, offer extremely high acceleration compared to most vehicles, including ordinary sports cars. Some current expectations are as follows:

* 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph): Under 4 seconds for virtually all supercars today. The Ultima GTR can go from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.6 seconds and the Bugatti Veyron can do this in 2.5 seconds.[2]
* 0 to 160 km/h (100 mph): Under 6 seconds is generally recognized as the standard, with undisputed supercars being significantly faster.
o The Ultima GTR, introduced in 2006, has recorded a 0 to 160 km/h time of 5.3 seconds.
o A Bugatti Veyron can achieve 0 to 160 km/h in 5.5 seconds.[3]
* 0 to 320 km/h (200 mph): Under 30 seconds. McLaren F1 28 seconds, Saleen S7 23 seconds, Bugatti Veyron 22 seconds.
* Standing quarter-mile (400 meter): Under 13 seconds is arguably a requirement, as is a trap or terminal speed of at least 175 km/h (110 mph).
o The Enzo Ferrari completes the quarter mile from a stop in about 11.1 seconds at 214 km/h (133 mph).
o The Koenigsegg CCR, introduced in 2004, is officially claimed to run the quarter mile in "9 seconds, end speed 235 km/h (146 mph)" [4]
* Standing mile (1.6 km): Trap (terminal) speed of at least 320 km/h, for example the Saleen S7, Bugatti Veyron, Pagani Zonda, Koenigsegg CCR, McLaren F1, Ferrari FXX.

Top speed
Undisputed supercars can generally exceed 320 km/h (200 mph). The fastest models today have speeds exceeding 400 km/h (250 mph).[5]

* On March 31, 1998, the McLaren F1 XP5 prototype set the speed record at 386.3 km/h (240.1 mph) at 7800 rpm. The production models are normally limited to 7500 rpm, giving them a top speed around 231 mph. The prototype was driven by Andy Wallace on the 9 km straight at Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test track in Wolfsburg, Germany.
* On February 28, 2005, the Koenigsegg CCR with 601 kW (806 hp) achieved a top speed of 387.87 km/h (241.01 mph) on default settings. The car was driven on Italy's Nardo Prototipo proving ground, a circular track with a circumference of 12.5 km. This exceeded the McLaren's record.[6] The steering wheel was kept at 30 degrees, slowing the car; the car has not been tested on a straight.[7]
* In October, 2005, Car and Driver magazine's editor Csaba Csere test drove the final production version of the Veyron for the November 2005 issue. This test, at Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test track, reached a top speed of 407 km/h (253 mph). The Veyron can also go from 0 to 300 km/h (190 mph) in just under 19 seconds[8].

Stopping ability
An increasingly common measure of overall performance, demanding both good acceleration and good brakes, is the 0–160–0 km/h test in which the vehicle is accelerated from a standing start to 160 km/h (100 mph) and then brought back to a dead stop. Several modern supercars can achieve this acceleration and subsequent deceleration in under 10 seconds.

Handling
A supercar is usually built for maximum cornering and road gripping ability in order to achieve superior cornering speeds. Lateral g-forces during the tightest turns can generally exceed 1 g.

A popular benchmark is a lap time around the Nürburgring of under 8 minutes. There are also other tracks where supercars are being tested. Lap time tables from different racetracks are posted at fastestlaps.com.

Other criteria
In addition to performance, the following criteria are also cited in determining if a particular sports car or exotic car deserves the supercar moniker:

* Brand: Supercars are often very brand-centric (e.g. Ferrari) and a new brand wanting to join the list has to prove itself before its acceptance.
* Styling: Supercars often feature groundbreaking styling elements. The Formula One-inspired Enzo Ferrari, for example, set a new styling direction for that company.
* Rarity: Virtually all cars classified as supercars undergo a very limited production run, typically no more than a few thousand in total. For example, the Corvette Z06, though an extremely fast car, is mass produced and is very common, and thus is not sufficiently rare to be considered a supercar.
* Focused design: Supercars are not designed to be practical transportation devices, with functionality varying widely between different examples. Many car body styles (including 2+2 coupe, station wagon, and pickup truck) make inherent tradeoffs of performance potential for utility. By this measure, extreme vehicles like the Dodge Ram SRT 10 are not normally called supercars (in the case of Dodge Ram SRT-10, it is classified as a truck, not car, so the car-based description would not fit anyway). While one undisputed supercar, the McLaren F1, featured seating for three (and had a number of useful storage spaces), performance was not sacrificed, but instead improved by the seating design: the driver's central position lowered the vehicle's polar moment of inertia and increased its turning ability.

Historic supercars
Examples of cars that are generally agreed to have been supercars in their time.

* Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagato
* Bugatti Veyron
* Bugatti EB110
* Ferrari Enzo
* Ferrari 250 GTO
* Ferrari 288 GTO
* Ferrari F40
* Ferrari F50
* Jaguar XKSS
* Jaguar XJ220
* Lamborghini Countach
* Lamborghini Miura
* Lamborghini Diablo
* Maserati MC12
* Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing
* McLaren F1
* Porsche 959
* Porsche Carrera GT
* Saleen S7

 

[Malibu Rapper]

NSX = Best exotic, most reliable, capable of being daily driven, built in its time when it came out.

Supercar = F40 for its time.

Yeah it's a tough sell to say the NSX was a supercar when that red thing on the right came out in 1987.

 

[Dan Ciezniewzki]

^ 0-100mph in under 6 seconds?!?!?!?!?

its going to be a VERY VERY VERY small crowd