Yes it is. I think for the price you cannot beat that projector. The Sony gets better reviews (slightly) but its $1400 more.
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LCD TV Technology, who's the leader now? Samsung, Pioneer Elite, or Sony XBR, etc?
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Yes it is. I think for the price you cannot beat that projector. The Sony gets better reviews (slightly) but its $1400 more.
Almost 6 years ago, I bought a rear-projection 70" Sony LCD and the picture quality was great. Then for the bedroom I got a Samsung plasma a couple years later and I can tell you that I really enjoy the colors of the plasma more--the difference in quality is perceptible. I would also echo that bigger is better--most people recommended a 40ish size TV for the bedroom but I went 58" and love it.
Since we have some experts on here, what's a good replacement for 70" when I need it? That particular room is not projector friendly and I don't want to downsize but wouldn't mind upsizing. Anything that won't break the bank?
Since we have some experts on here, what's a good replacement for 70" when I need it? That particular room is not projector friendly and I don't want to downsize but wouldn't mind upsizing. Anything that won't break the bank?
Obviously the choice of how to mount your projector is determined by screen size/optimal seating position vs room length...ect but for us the choice to mount the projector exposed on the ceiling just above the money seats was made possible by how quiet the cooling fan and all other moving components was.
+1. the Panasonic projectors seem to have provided some of the best $/value over the past few years in its respective 4000/7000/8000 classes + competition.
I come back over the weekend and this thread has really exploded ~ in a good way! 
We were just at Best Buy looking at the physical sizing like you suggested. Here in CA we used to have stand alone Magnolia Hi-Fi stores but now pretty much now they are all merged with BB stores. The pricing is all over the place but all the knowledge here has helped me a lot in picking out what we like. I'm still not sure which way we are going since this is a TV meant for our garage setup. (we have a 2nd living space in the garage which is kind of nice).
Since we are talking about industry experience, back in my younger college days I used to work part time for Ovation Audio/Video and we did some unique home theater installations for local customers. I remember whenever SIA (local auto plant) gave out their bonus's all my good customer's would come in to spend their money or upgrade their TV's. Back then I remember when HDTV was just coming out and Mitsubishi had one of the first sets and it was a huge tube TV, remember those? There was only one channel broadcasting HDTV so you can see the time frame I'm talking about. Denon was huge back then and we had Krell and Martin Logan as our high end brands so I got pretty good accomodation pricing.
Our current home is way too small to do anything nice so my initial questions was just for an upgrade TV set for the garage so the kids can enjoy. Since there is a lot of sun I'm thinking now LED is our best bet for the brightness. We are planning to build a custom home a few years down the road and if we have a dedicated home theater space we may need to hire you Turbo!
We were just at Best Buy looking at the physical sizing like you suggested. Here in CA we used to have stand alone Magnolia Hi-Fi stores but now pretty much now they are all merged with BB stores. The pricing is all over the place but all the knowledge here has helped me a lot in picking out what we like. I'm still not sure which way we are going since this is a TV meant for our garage setup. (we have a 2nd living space in the garage which is kind of nice).
Since we are talking about industry experience, back in my younger college days I used to work part time for Ovation Audio/Video and we did some unique home theater installations for local customers. I remember whenever SIA (local auto plant) gave out their bonus's all my good customer's would come in to spend their money or upgrade their TV's. Back then I remember when HDTV was just coming out and Mitsubishi had one of the first sets and it was a huge tube TV, remember those? There was only one channel broadcasting HDTV so you can see the time frame I'm talking about. Denon was huge back then and we had Krell and Martin Logan as our high end brands so I got pretty good accomodation pricing.
Our current home is way too small to do anything nice so my initial questions was just for an upgrade TV set for the garage so the kids can enjoy. Since there is a lot of sun I'm thinking now LED is our best bet for the brightness. We are planning to build a custom home a few years down the road and if we have a dedicated home theater space we may need to hire you Turbo!
if in garage i would try to look for a display that has a matte screen not glossy finish to help with the reflections. especially important if there will be sunlight.
Can A projector be used in a well lit room?
Realistically, no. There are some 'light cannons' that cost upper 5 and 6 figures that will 'work', but the darkest black you are able to get in a room with ambient light is the whatever the screen appears as with the projector off. ie, you can't project 'blacks'. Not recommended. You really need serious light control for a projector.
if the projector is bright enough then yes , but the image will have much less contrast and be 'washed out'.
the optimum image quality is to have the lights turned off with no sources of light spilling back onto the screen (ie. lights off, all doors closed, room darkening shades/drapes etc etc).
the optimum image quality is to have the lights turned off with no sources of light spilling back onto the screen (ie. lights off, all doors closed, room darkening shades/drapes etc etc).
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Thanks, we basically have a wall of windows, so it's going to be well lit down there. I was debating whether to go with a 70"-80" TV or a Projector, but it's sounding like the TV will be the better option.
Yes, if it is rear projection not front projection. You can use a projector either way, in rooms that have a lot of ambient light but a small adjacent room that can be dark, you use that. We often just make one by a false wall. You can have all the light you want in the room, it will still be a bright image with good blacks.
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I don't always pick projectors based purely on image performance. We can make a lot of projectors look good with proper calibration and installation. My calibrator has often said to me when I have been on the fence "don't worry Dave, I will make it look great". And he does. I prefer DLP over LCD generally however. I consider other criteria like warranty which... You'll quickly realize the importance of when you install these daily, the company's service and exchange policy, throw distances, noise, and generally what the room requires.
I would never pedestal mount, unless you want a shadow every time someone gets up to go anywhere. Sound insulation involves two things, isolation from an adjacent room and "tuning" INSIDE the room which requires absorption and diffusion. They do affect each other to a certain extent. You need to have a plan to do both. And just like we can take an inexpensive TV and make it look good with proper calibration we can also take inexpensive speakers and make them sound great with proper room treatment. I tend to spend a lot less money on gear and more on design than what consumers tend to do.
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I have yet to experience a projection system that I've liked outside of an actual movie theater or a dedicated home theater that has been built like a movie theater...too many factors influence the quality of presentation in a home or office. Even when you CAN completely control the light coming into the room, you have to worry about bounce from projected image hitting surrounding walls and reflecting back on to the screen.
For different reasons, I have yet to see a rear-projection set that produces an image comparable to any other display technology.
I still have reservations about plasma...and I can tell you burn-in is still an issue on plasmas. I'm not sure how it happened exactly in our office, but we bought a new plasma early last year (I forget if it was Panasonic or Samsung...we have both in our office) for our conference room. Less than a year after we got it, I started noticing that I could see the Xbox 360's dashboard on it when we're looking at white Explorer windows...and a horizontal reddish-band started appearing not long after. Supposedly my coworkers have been very conscientious about not leaving static images up on the screen, but to have this level of burn-in so soon? This screen has been used more as a computer monitor / gaming display than as a TV, so perhaps its burn-in protection scheme wasn't really designed for such applications?
Plasmas also run hotter and use more power than a comparable sized CFL or LED LCD panel.
I almost bought a Pioneer Kuro...definitely was the best looking picture (and best black levels outside of CRT) at that time. Two things worked against it...the Kuro's picture wouldn't be bright enough for a pleasant viewing experience from my living room during daylight hours and its shiny glass surface would reflect French doors from every viewing direction. I ended up buying a Sony 50" XBR3 LCD TV (the one with the glass frame...which I still think is one of the best styled sets that has ever been made). The set is very watchable even during the peak hours of the day thanks to the set's vibrant CFL back-lighting and matte display surface. This set is now four years old (I bought it refurbished) and I still think it has a great picture, even though newer sets have better blacks (I also own a 40" XBR2 and a 32" XBR6).
If I was in the market, I'd opt for a LED backlit LCD panel. The side-lit ones may be attractively thin, but the back-lit ones look better, especially those that have arrays that can be locally dimmed for truer black levels. Opt for RGB LEDs for a wider color gamut. I'm still looking forward to the day we return to true per-pixel illumination, but these LED LCD panels provide a decent interim solution. Note that LEDs use less power than CFL, run cooler, and should last longer...and should have less impact on the environment when it is time to dispose of the set.
I'd also be tempted to buy a Samsung over a Sony...I find their quality comparable, but the price is much more attractive.
As for "Smart" TVs, if you have a game console like a PS3 or Xbox 360, there's very little reason to get one. The performance of the processors they put into such sets are always inferior.
And I am strongly against using the motion interpolation on the high frame rate sets. It is good to at least get a 120hz set so that you can set it to 24fps mode for watching movies at their native 24fps frame rate...but I find motion interpolation artificial and distracting (at best, it makes movies look like bad TV shows).
I have not been at all tempted to go 3D at home yet. I am especially not a fan of those 3D glasses with active shutters (they are more expensive and tend to make the image duller). I read somewhere that some of the manufactures might put better quality components in their more expensive 3D models, which is truly lame IMHO.
For different reasons, I have yet to see a rear-projection set that produces an image comparable to any other display technology.
I still have reservations about plasma...and I can tell you burn-in is still an issue on plasmas. I'm not sure how it happened exactly in our office, but we bought a new plasma early last year (I forget if it was Panasonic or Samsung...we have both in our office) for our conference room. Less than a year after we got it, I started noticing that I could see the Xbox 360's dashboard on it when we're looking at white Explorer windows...and a horizontal reddish-band started appearing not long after. Supposedly my coworkers have been very conscientious about not leaving static images up on the screen, but to have this level of burn-in so soon? This screen has been used more as a computer monitor / gaming display than as a TV, so perhaps its burn-in protection scheme wasn't really designed for such applications?
Plasmas also run hotter and use more power than a comparable sized CFL or LED LCD panel.
I almost bought a Pioneer Kuro...definitely was the best looking picture (and best black levels outside of CRT) at that time. Two things worked against it...the Kuro's picture wouldn't be bright enough for a pleasant viewing experience from my living room during daylight hours and its shiny glass surface would reflect French doors from every viewing direction. I ended up buying a Sony 50" XBR3 LCD TV (the one with the glass frame...which I still think is one of the best styled sets that has ever been made). The set is very watchable even during the peak hours of the day thanks to the set's vibrant CFL back-lighting and matte display surface. This set is now four years old (I bought it refurbished) and I still think it has a great picture, even though newer sets have better blacks (I also own a 40" XBR2 and a 32" XBR6).
If I was in the market, I'd opt for a LED backlit LCD panel. The side-lit ones may be attractively thin, but the back-lit ones look better, especially those that have arrays that can be locally dimmed for truer black levels. Opt for RGB LEDs for a wider color gamut. I'm still looking forward to the day we return to true per-pixel illumination, but these LED LCD panels provide a decent interim solution. Note that LEDs use less power than CFL, run cooler, and should last longer...and should have less impact on the environment when it is time to dispose of the set.
I'd also be tempted to buy a Samsung over a Sony...I find their quality comparable, but the price is much more attractive.
As for "Smart" TVs, if you have a game console like a PS3 or Xbox 360, there's very little reason to get one. The performance of the processors they put into such sets are always inferior.
And I am strongly against using the motion interpolation on the high frame rate sets. It is good to at least get a 120hz set so that you can set it to 24fps mode for watching movies at their native 24fps frame rate...but I find motion interpolation artificial and distracting (at best, it makes movies look like bad TV shows).
I have not been at all tempted to go 3D at home yet. I am especially not a fan of those 3D glasses with active shutters (they are more expensive and tend to make the image duller). I read somewhere that some of the manufactures might put better quality components in their more expensive 3D models, which is truly lame IMHO.
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Thanks Turbo, that's good advice. I always assumed that if the projector were quiet enough, ceiling mount was the way to go, but I had seen a lot of people pedestal mounting lately so was wondering if there was a good reason that I wasn't aware of re: sound insulation, yeah I was looking for advice on both. Just basic stuff, not isolated HVAC level stuff I did some research into different types of materials and ideas a couple of years ago but it's probably outdated now. Any good sites or articles you would recommend?
This. Every TV I have, I end up turning interpolation off because I find it horribly distracting.
re: sound insulation, yeah I was looking for advice on both. Just basic stuff, not isolated HVAC level stuff I did some research into different types of materials and ideas a couple of years ago but it's probably outdated now. Any good sites or articles you would recommend?This. Every TV I have, I end up turning interpolation off because I find it horribly distracting.
+1 on looking into support quality of the brand, not just the reviews of the unit. We've done budget projectors for clients before that were 2-3K like the Panasonic PT-AE units. After calibration by a great calibrator that Panasonic looked very good, especially for a budget unit. It only costs $4-500 for a basic calibration like that. We use a guy named Dave Abrams (AVICAL) out here in socal... he used to work with Joe Kane and now does work for Stewart Filmscreen and calibrations for major studios. highly recommended
A lot of these brands will have you waiting MONTHS to get replacement parts and repair. One client went out and bought an Epson on their own and it had an issue about a year in. They have been waiting 2 months now for parts from Japan with no projector which is unacceptable in our universe, so we can't recommend or sell them, regardless of their bang for the buck and reviews. On the other hand, companies like Mitsubishi offer 3 year, next day replacement warranty on their units. So when your projector goes down, a replacement is overnight shipped. THAT is service. Most high end and expensive projector companies also work this way, which is why wealthier clients pay the premium, but that isn't for everyone. So when choosing a projector, make that part of your research. You could end up with a brilliant projector sitting dead in your room for months waiting for parts availability. The exception is when you buy from a good local integrator, and something needs repair, they will usually get you a loaner while your unit is out so you can at least still enjoy your system. You may pay that extra 15% or whatever in markup, the integrator has to make a profit, but you're paying for the service. We normally keep multiple units in stock as backups for such occasions and to take care of clients. So if they call days before a big party that the projector is dead, we have a loaner/replacement ready to go for them. If they chose to buy online, more power to them... but enjoy being dead in the water until it comes back from repair. So if you're in that boat, do some research on turn around time for repairs and parts availability for your brand. You wouldn't think that large companies would have such massive back order issues, but they do, and often.
Also +1 on DLP for projection. The best deals are on LCD projection because the tech is cheaper, and it has definitely come a long way, but if the budget exists for DLP projectors they are superior. They are also the standard in all commercial cinema. Every Christie, Barco and similar digital projectors you see in good commercial theaters are all DLP. They can be calibrated to most accurately represent the original source material as displayed in theaters. I know that many theaters don't have the best projection, and many cheat on light output to save cost, but I'm referring to what you would see in a quality theater such as the new ETX theaters for AMC. There are also a few DLP based LED projectors out there that look fantastic and use no lamps. Not to be confused with LCD/LED panel tech, they actually use 3 LEDs (RGB) internally. Properly calibrated, I haven't seen anything south of 25-30K projectors that look as good, and they are around 10K, maybe less now. They may not have the lens quality of a very expensive DLP projector (sharpness and accuracy without distortion), but the image is 3-Chip DLP caliber, or as close as you'll get to it today for a fraction of the price. But they are limited in brightness (around 1K lumens) so it's definitely for darkened theater rooms.
A lot of these brands will have you waiting MONTHS to get replacement parts and repair. One client went out and bought an Epson on their own and it had an issue about a year in. They have been waiting 2 months now for parts from Japan with no projector which is unacceptable in our universe, so we can't recommend or sell them, regardless of their bang for the buck and reviews. On the other hand, companies like Mitsubishi offer 3 year, next day replacement warranty on their units. So when your projector goes down, a replacement is overnight shipped. THAT is service. Most high end and expensive projector companies also work this way, which is why wealthier clients pay the premium, but that isn't for everyone. So when choosing a projector, make that part of your research. You could end up with a brilliant projector sitting dead in your room for months waiting for parts availability. The exception is when you buy from a good local integrator, and something needs repair, they will usually get you a loaner while your unit is out so you can at least still enjoy your system. You may pay that extra 15% or whatever in markup, the integrator has to make a profit, but you're paying for the service. We normally keep multiple units in stock as backups for such occasions and to take care of clients. So if they call days before a big party that the projector is dead, we have a loaner/replacement ready to go for them. If they chose to buy online, more power to them... but enjoy being dead in the water until it comes back from repair. So if you're in that boat, do some research on turn around time for repairs and parts availability for your brand. You wouldn't think that large companies would have such massive back order issues, but they do, and often.
Also +1 on DLP for projection. The best deals are on LCD projection because the tech is cheaper, and it has definitely come a long way, but if the budget exists for DLP projectors they are superior. They are also the standard in all commercial cinema. Every Christie, Barco and similar digital projectors you see in good commercial theaters are all DLP. They can be calibrated to most accurately represent the original source material as displayed in theaters. I know that many theaters don't have the best projection, and many cheat on light output to save cost, but I'm referring to what you would see in a quality theater such as the new ETX theaters for AMC. There are also a few DLP based LED projectors out there that look fantastic and use no lamps. Not to be confused with LCD/LED panel tech, they actually use 3 LEDs (RGB) internally. Properly calibrated, I haven't seen anything south of 25-30K projectors that look as good, and they are around 10K, maybe less now. They may not have the lens quality of a very expensive DLP projector (sharpness and accuracy without distortion), but the image is 3-Chip DLP caliber, or as close as you'll get to it today for a fraction of the price. But they are limited in brightness (around 1K lumens) so it's definitely for darkened theater rooms.
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Arshad I can answer specific questions regarding acoustical isolation and treatments, but I can't in one post tell you how to build a theater. It's just a lot. When you get into it and have some specific questions ask and I will help you.
Thanks man, I absolutely understand. I was hoping you could point me to any sites or references which I could for researching this further...
Yes the green house is where it went. I took down that whole wall of windows, if you remember it was pretty darn tall. I framed it up, there are now no windows at all. It's almost done, thank god.
ISF calibration on the ST50, done. Whew, what a difference. Greyscale was WAAAYYYY off (a setting that you can't get to on most sets without going into factory config mode).
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OP:
I came across this monster deal.
Granted I do not like my LM7600, but a deal is a deal. There are problems with motion blur/jutter, and images that have a criss-cross pattern (chain-link fences, etc.); but everyday viewing is ok (especially at this price). For a garage set, I think it will do its job. Especially for a 55'' unit! I have never seen one this cheap. You can also expect some lightbleed that won't be pronounced during daylight viewing, but may be visible in a dark room.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ffiliateID=lw9MynSeamY-YJv61hEj7RbUVJezVpKc4g
Slickdeals has it listed as $750 + free shipping, but looks like it sold out online fast. Now only limited to a few stores around the country.
I came across this monster deal.
Granted I do not like my LM7600, but a deal is a deal. There are problems with motion blur/jutter, and images that have a criss-cross pattern (chain-link fences, etc.); but everyday viewing is ok (especially at this price). For a garage set, I think it will do its job. Especially for a 55'' unit! I have never seen one this cheap. You can also expect some lightbleed that won't be pronounced during daylight viewing, but may be visible in a dark room.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...ffiliateID=lw9MynSeamY-YJv61hEj7RbUVJezVpKc4g
Slickdeals has it listed as $750 + free shipping, but looks like it sold out online fast. Now only limited to a few stores around the country.
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^Yup that must be a killler deal as sold out online
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