Legalities of online forums

[Oyagi]

Just wondering, are owners of online forums like Prime legally responsible for what its members post?

Eg. I deal with a shop that rips me off, so I post online saying they stink, they ripped me off, don't deal with them.

Can the shop hold Prime responsible for libel/slander if I posted?

BTW this purely hypothetical, and not related to Prime at all. I run an online forum and was talking to a colleague over my activities and he seems to think I am exposing myself to possible legal action over what members post.

RSO34, I'm looking at you! :biggrin:

 

[queenlives]

Just wondering, are owners of online forums like Prime legally responsible for what its members post?

Eg. I deal with a shop that rips me off, so I post online saying they stink, they ripped me off, don't deal with them.

Can the shop hold Prime responsible for libel/slander if I posted?

BTW this purely hypothetical, and not related to Prime at all. I run an online forum and was talking to a colleague over my activities and he seems to think I am exposing myself to possible legal action over what members post.

RSO34, I'm looking at you! :biggrin:

if i understand it correctly, the owner of the site is not, but the poster may be held liable.

 

[RSO 34]

if i understand it correctly, the owner of the site is not, but the poster may be held liable.

That is generally correct, although there may be instances in which the site owner may be compelled to provide the registration information for the person/persons who purportedly post defamatory remarks. However, as a general proposition the site owner is protected absent "active involvement" in making or disseminating the defamatory remarks.

 

[Oyagi]

OK, here's a followup...

Can the offended person (ie. the shop) demand the owner of the forum to delete comments posted by a member? If the member genuinely was ripped off, posts in a mature, objective manner (ie. supplies bills and other paper evidence including copies of emails and PMs), can the shop demand the administrator of the board to edit, delete and generally censor comments posted online on the forum?

 

[Vega$ NSX]

That is generally correct, although there may be instances in which the site owner may be compelled to provide the registration information for the person/persons who purportedly post defamatory remarks. However, as a general proposition the site owner is protected absent "active involvement" in making or disseminating the defamatory remarks.

Also, if the site itself provokes or intends to promote illegal activity then yes the owner could be found liable. For example, if I started a website or forum that catered strictly to child pornography, even though all I am doing is hosting the website or forum, I could be held liable for it's content. Same goes with things like copyrighted or illegal content. A corporation, say Microsoft, could shutdown and sue the owner of a hacker site, if its members posted hacks and illegal software. Look at what happened to Napster; it all falls under the same category.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

OK, here's a followup...

Can the offended person (ie. the shop) demand the owner of the forum to delete comments posted by a member? If the member genuinely was ripped off, posts in a mature, objective manner (ie. supplies bills and other paper evidence including copies of emails and PMs), can the shop demand the administrator of the board to edit, delete and generally censor comments posted online on the forum?

My lawyer brother described Internet forums best this way:

Think of internet forums as a cafe where people meet, talk and mingle. Think of yourself as the owner of that cafe. All of the same rules usually apply. If a guy in your cafe, does something illegal in your cafe, what would typically happen. If you did not have knowledge or condone the activity you will most likely not be held responsible. If you got engaged or most of your customers in your cafe are doing illegal activities, most court would find you guilty or negligent at the least.

The first issue is, is anything illegal happening in your cafe. The only possible one that the offended company could claim is defamation, which is an extremely hard to prove. They would have to show that your forum member knowingly made a a statement that makes a false claim, expressively stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual or business. IF, and that's a big if, they are found guilty of defamation, in order for you to get in trouble, they would have to find you guilty of knowingly encouraging or condoning such action.

 

[Oyagi]

Hmm...very interesting.

I think I might fall into the gray area then.

My situation is a shop is going shoddy work, and someone posts saying he got ripped off and wanted others with similar experiences there to post in the thread so he may use it to bring it to the attention of the shop owner confront him.

I originally pulled the thread offline mainly to give me a chance to read and digest it. The shop owner thought I deleted it for his benefit. I did not. Once the thread was cleaned up a little and some of the insulting, silly remarks removed, I opened it again. The shop is now threatening legal actions as I have reopened what was perceived as a dead issue.

I personally am insulted that he is demanding I censor members trying to organize against his bad business dealings and using legal threats to back himself up!

 

[docjohn]

This is a good thread,,,now do ya'll see why Lud dose'nt micromanage/intervene in every dispute/vender brewhaha,the downside is we have lost a nsx enthusiast member poster on all the other topics ie Lud.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Hmm...very interesting.

I think I might fall into the gray area then.

My situation is a shop is going shoddy work, and someone posts saying he got ripped off and wanted others with similar experiences there to post in the thread so he may use it to bring it to the attention of the shop owner confront him.

I originally pulled the thread offline mainly to give me a chance to read and digest it. The shop owner thought I deleted it for his benefit. I did not. Once the thread was cleaned up a little and some of the insulting, silly remarks removed, I opened it again. The shop is now threatening legal actions as I have reopened what was perceived as a dead issue.

I personally am insulted that he is demanding I censor members trying to organize against his bad business dealings and using legal threats to back himself up!

Hmmm that IS a grey area. I guess some could consider your actions and "endorsement" of the negative comments. However, that is not to say that you were, just that it could be considered in the eyes of some. However, I'm no lawyer, but IMHO I still think you have a layer below you first. The company has to prove slander or defamation first and that is not very easy. Then they have to determine an amout that the slander or defamation cost them (lost $$$ due to lost business) and then prove that. Then they have to find you guilty or negligent of said slander/defamation. Is it possible? Absolutely! Is it likely? Not really. However, on things like this, is it really worth putting your neck on the line for something that you probably do in your spare time? If it were me, I would erase the thread, but ask the original poster to put up a new more objective, PC thread, and then stay completely out of it, except to get involved if it gets too charged again.

 

[Oyagi]

The thread has been deleted, but I am still irked by the shop's attitude and the fact that he thinks he may have won. I made it clear his presence is no longer welcome.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

The thread has been deleted, but I am still irked by the shop's attitude and the fact that he thinks he may have won. I made it clear his presence is no longer welcome.

I completely understand. I had a group that had over 10,000 members. However, the b*tching and moaning of a certain few really ruined it for everyone. They were the exception to every rule, the one fish going against the flow, a real PITA. But they come and go. Stay strong and hopefully they will go away.

 

[Hrant]

Interesting thread.

The thread has been deleted, but I am still irked by the shop's attitude and the fact that he thinks he may have won. I made it clear his presence is no longer welcome.

Since it is your forum, why can't you post that such vendore has been banned (better choice than legally problematic kicked) form posting for violating the rules of your web site - the threats of legal action going against the spirit of presumably unwritten protocols of your web site being the cause in case you are legally challenged. Wouldn't this give you the upper hand by letting all the members realize what is not spoken?

I completely understand. I had a group that had over 10,000 members. However, the b*tching and moaning of a certain few really ruined it for everyone. They were the exception to every rule, the one fish going against the flow, a real PITA. But they come and go. Stay strong and hopefully they will go away.

Just curious, if you had a few that were PITA, why didn't you ban them from your web site for the good of the rest of the membership and before they ruined it for all? What was the hesitation, freedom of speech?

 

[ShandaLeer]

Doesn't freedom of speech cover something like this? As in a poster stating their personal opinion on whether they are happy with a company's product or service? If we had more of this type of thing, we'd probably have less rip-offs out there.

 

[ShandaLeer]

The shop is now threatening legal actions as I have reopened what was perceived as a dead issue.

I personally am insulted that he is demanding I censor members trying to organize against his bad business dealings and using legal threats to back himself up!

Sounds like he really WAS being scandalous. In which case, he probably wouldn't REALLY want to take things to court because he'd end up being exposed.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Just curious, if you had a few that were PITA, why didn't you ban them from your web site for the good of the rest of the membership and before they ruined it for all? What was the hesitation, freedom of speech?

I could have easily banned them, but some of them accused me of being some power monger that censored everything. That I ran the forums as some guy on a power trip and basically just banned everyone that didn't agree with me. So if I did ban them then it would just prove their case and they would be a martyr for the cause.

The reality of the situation was that I was being pretty objective and fair and they were being asses. So I could have taken the easy route and banned them, only to strengthen their position. Or I could take the high road and reason with them and perhaps convince them that they are being idiots, which is what I chose to do instead. 90% of the time they would just disappear and never really respond. 10% of the time they would debate with me, which only a fraction of them having making any sense. However, 100% of the time the situation would eventually blow over. Had I just banned them, I’m sure I could have smoothed things over more quickly but at the cost of the reputation of the group.

 

[lrsudog]

The Communications decency act mandates that such sites wherein the owners do not actively promote illegality are a safe harbor and as such are not liable for the content of their individual user's posts.

 

[Oyagi]

I could have easily banned them, but some of them accused me of being some power monger that censored everything. That I ran the forums as some guy on a power trip and basically just banned everyone that didn't agree with me. So if I did ban them then it would just prove their case and they would be a martyr for the cause.

The reality of the situation was that I was being pretty objective and fair and they were being asses. So I could have taken the easy route and banned them, only to strengthen their position. Or I could take the high road and reason with them and perhaps convince them that they are being idiots, which is what I chose to do instead. 90% of the time they would just disappear and never really respond. 10% of the time they would debate with me, which only a fraction of them having making any sense. However, 100% of the time the situation would eventually blow over. Had I just banned them, I’m sure I could have smoothed things over more quickly but at the cost of the reputation of the group.

He speaks the truth.

Owning a forum starts out as a fun idea but very quickly (especially when money is involved) becomes a case where you're constantly trying to make King Solomon decisions on the most inane things.

You want to be fair, you want to be objective, you also want to not appear as an ogre and risk the forum either stagnating from people being turned off or starting one on their own. Its a constant struggle to be fair and nice and firm all at the same time. In the end you can't please everyone but if the majority sees your point and sides with your decision you come out on top.

The guy in my case got his thread with bad press about him deleted, but only because both he and the OP came to some mutual agreement and both came to me to ask for it to be deleted. I also told him his sponsorship of my forum is no longer welcome and come next Jan when his banner expires, he will not be renewed. Its been over a week and he hasn't replied to my last PM.

Fade away...

 

[Vega$ NSX]

He speaks the truth.

Owning a forum starts out as a fun idea but very quickly (especially when money is involved) becomes a case where you're constantly trying to make King Solomon decisions on the most inane things.

You want to be fair, you want to be objective, you also want to not appear as an ogre and risk the forum either stagnating from people being turned off or starting one on their own. Its a constant struggle to be fair and nice and firm all at the same time. In the end you can't please everyone but if the majority sees your point and sides with your decision you come out on top.

The guy in my case got his thread with bad press about him deleted, but only because both he and the OP came to some mutual agreement and both came to me to ask for it to be deleted. I also told him his sponsorship of my forum is no longer welcome and come next Jan when his banner expires, he will not be renewed. Its been over a week and he hasn't replied to my last PM.

Fade away...

It truly is a thankless job isn't it? :biggrin: I didn't even get paid a single penny for mine, yet in its heyday, I must have put 10-20 hours a week into it. :redface: