My 2.3l whipple after stage 1 SOS, AEM EMS and more

[bruce91nsx]

Wow!

Here I am at the Acura dealership in Boulder, Colo., having the oil changed after my 1,000 mile drive back from SOS in Tempe, Ariz.
SOS did a stage 1 build of my 3.0 liter engine; 9.5:1 forged pistons, much much more:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine%5Fperformance%5Fproducts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/custom%5Fengine%5Fprogram/FI%5Fcustom%5Fengine%5Fprogram/

...plus the full AEM/EMS.

Also.. I now have the aftercooler, using the custom cooler from Driving Ambition to fit under my Whipple setup, along with SOS modifications.

Basically... I have a brand new engine and I just finished breaking it in.

<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_5690.JPG" />


<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_5824.JPG" />

Wow! It's absolutely an amazing animal! With temperatures here in the 40s, I just spin the tires through all of first and through parts of second.
With things a bit warmer, though, everything hooks up just great! (Toyo R888s)


Here's what the install looks like:

<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/IMG_5887.JPG" />

I previously had the same Whipple running at 9-10 lbs with the AEM F/IC. That setup was dynoed at 400rwhp and 267 torque.
I don't think I ever really got that, in part because I was having issues with detonation. In fact, one of the pistons was down on compression.

I am now running around 13lbs of boost...which is about the
max efficiency of this blower.

Here are the new numbers:

<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/HENDERSON-HPTQ.jpg" />

That's 50 more rwhp and 70 more lb/ft of torque!!! Those are fantastic
torque numbers....

...and despite the altitude change (5,280 feet here vs. 1,500 in Tempe)..
I can't feel much if any power loss! I think it is because the AEM EMS with
the wideband O2 sensors adjusts well for the altitude difference.

But the difference in driving the car now is like night and day....:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

...and there are absolutely no issues with detonation! I can romp
on it with abandon, without feeling nervous about the engine!

And the power is just tremendous!

Many thanks to the SOS folks... Chris and Wade, and especially Jeff K., who did the work on the car
and spent a good hour or so going over every detail with me when I picked it up. Many thanks!

 

[ken sampson]

Let me be the first to say great job.
Ken

 

[BTL3.0]

Its very nice.
That there, is my dream setup. 450rwhp. I think it would be perfect.
Congrats! Wow. That is sweet.

 

[NetViper]

Very sweet set up. What clutch are you using for that thing?

 

[bruce91nsx]

Let me be the first to say great job.
Ken

Thanks, Ken! Many thanks to you, and for your leading work in the area
of big superchargers and cooling...
I am putting your old 2.3l Whipple to very good use, with very similar results!

Very sweet set up. What clutch are you using for that thing?

Using Comptech Powergrip 1... will see how it lasts!

 

[docjohn]

good for you! I remember all your older posts agonizing over your percieved lack of power with the old setup.Seems SoS is gaining lots of motor building experience.

 

[xrc]

Very nice setup!

 

[WillErickson]

That's awesome Bruce, looking forward to a ride!

 

[peiserg]

looks like another typical SOS home run.

did you do the serial AEM gauges? the adjustable vtec engagement?

 

[latzke]

The power of two regular superchargers and something to mitigate heat soak. Very cool.

 

[NetViper]

good for you! I remember all your older posts agonizing over your percieved lack of power with the old setup.Seems SoS is gaining lots of motor building experience.

The more they do, the closer you come to finally stepping to the boost side of the force.:biggrin:

 

[cmc140]

Very nice setup with great numbers!

Weren't you previously running a meth injection system? If so did you abandon it? Also do you happen to know what size pulley you are running? I'm also curious as to what headers, exhaust, and TPs or cats you're running.

Enjoy.

 

[bruce91nsx]

Thanks, all!

Very nice setup with great numbers!

Weren't you previously running a meth injection system? If so did you abandon it? Also do you happen to know what size pulley you are running? I'm also curious as to what headers, exhaust, and TPs or cats you're running.

Enjoy.

I was running the meth just for safety...wasn't tuned specifically for it. And yet... I was getting into detonation problems, car wasn't tuned to drive at lower altitudes (went to Spring Mountain and couldn't drive a lap), and ultimately compression went on one piston. I am happy to say those are all things in the past!!!

I'm not sure the meth helped my situation at all, but perhaps it delayed some of the engine damage that ultimately resulted. Anyway, I felt meth was redundant with the aftercooler so I had it removed. I'll sell it cheap if anyone wants (snow performance).

Comptech headers and exhaust; had high-flow cats but they were blown out in less than a year. One of my priorities on this build was getting through emissions. SOS did the build, took it for testing, and it failed. They replaced the cats with used stock cats and it passed with a nice margin of safety, and Arizona has higher emissions standards than Colorado.

I am running what some describe as the 3.8-inch pulley. I have two smaller ones... but this blower is at its peak efficiency. You can see how the torque falls off at higher RPM; I believe that's because the blower is generating a lot of heat at that RPM range.

looks like another typical SOS home run.

did you do the serial AEM gauges? the adjustable vtec engagement?

Didn't do the gauges... been thinking about it, but don't like the idea of putting them in the ash tray (can't see 'em)... I think it would be really cool if I could find something to display on my touchscreen navi pod.

It seems to me that VTEC engages at the same point as stock.



SOS has been coming up with some awesome cars... mine feels ridiculously fast, yet stock-like... it just gets up and goes!

 

[BATMANs]

.....SOS did a stage 1 build of my 3.0 liter engine; 9.5:1 forged pistons.....plus the full AEM/EMS.

Also.. I now have the aftercooler, using the custom cooler from Driving Ambition to fit under my Whipple setup, along with SOS modifications.

I previously had the same Whipple running at 9-10 lbs with the AEM F/IC. That setup was dynoed at 400rwhp and 267 torque.

I am now running around 13lbs of boost...which is about the
max efficiency of this blower.

Here are the new numbers:

<img src="http://www.nsxprime.com/photopost/data/500/HENDERSON-HPTQ.jpg" />

That's 50 more rwhp and 70 more lb/ft of torque!!! Those are fantastic
torque numbers....

I'm in the process of researching and spec'ing out my engine build.

I to plan on doing a 9.5:1 CR Pistons (Wiseco 2618 alloy) and running a 13psi pulley.

Are you running 91 octane pump gas?

Are you using the SOS Locking Timing Belt Tensioner?

So when you were running 400rwhp and 267rwtq @ 9-10 lbs with the AEM F/IC was that with a healthy engine?

I was currently running the exact same boost and F/IC with the Driving Ambition IC and was making 430rwhp~ and 300RWTQ on 91 octane pump with no meth injection.

I'm trying to project my power improvements once I'm at 13psi and can't tell whether my greater power numbers are attributed to the IC and/or the SOS SC - Kenne Bell's design efficiencies....

 

[bruce91nsx]

Are you running 91 octane pump gas with no meth injection?

Yes.

So when you were running 400rwhp and 267rwtq @ 9-10 lbs with the AEM F/IC was that with a healthy engine?

It was starting to go. Lots of detonation and compression was way down on one piston. There also might have been tuning problems with the F/IC past the 10lb level.

I was currently running the exact same boost and F/IC with the Driving Ambition IC and was making 430rwhp~ and 300RWTQ on 91 octane pump with no meth injection.

Makes sense... there probably was a cooling bonus and an altitude bonus.

 

[Caroline-NSX]

Very nice!I like this set up :smile:

 

[BATMANs]

Yes.



It was starting to go. Lots of detonation and compression was way down on one piston. There also might have been tuning problems with the F/IC past the 10lb level.



Makes sense... there probably was a cooling bonus and an altitude bonus.

An email from kenne bell that I just received:

"As long as the supercharger is not spun above 18,000 RPM it is still within it efficiency range. To figure out SC RPM you take the crank pulley diameter divide it by the supercharger pulley diameter then multiply that number by the redline RPM of the engine. Other things will come into play as well, like a small restrictive inlet will limit the boost created as well as the efficiency of the engine."

I called Whipple and even though they picked up the phone the guy didn't have an answer.....

 

[bruce91nsx]

An email from kenne bell that I just received:

"As long as the supercharger is not spun above 18,000 RPM it is still within it efficiency range. To figure out SC RPM you take the crank pulley diameter divide it by the supercharger pulley diameter then multiply that number by the redline RPM of the engine. Other things will come into play as well, like a small restrictive inlet will limit the boost created as well as the efficiency of the engine."

I called Whipple and even though they picked up the phone the guy didn't have an answer.....

Yes, good info. Different superchargers have different efficiencies. My Whipple is an earlier model than the more efficient current model, which does not generate as much heat given the same (high) RPM level.

I know my Whipple is at its limit because at redline it generates a lot of heat, despite the aftercooler, and the torque declines. The aftercooler helps bring temps down immediately, though, so all is good.... at least that is my understanding.

I think your Kenne Bell also is more efficient than my model of Whipple...

 

[bruce91nsx]

Are you using the SOS Locking Timing Belt Tensioner?

Sorry I did not answer this earlier.
Yes.

...also Titaniumdave's brilliant supercharger belt tensioner.

 

[BATMANs]

BTW, did you run these sleeves?

http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129267

 

[bruce91nsx]

BTW, did you run these sleeves?

http://nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129267

I did the SOS Stage 1 build, which includes a slight bore and honing of cylinder sleeves to go
with the new pistons and rings. Engine stays at about 3.0 liters.

The SOS Stage 2 build includes the Darton sleeves as an option and an increase to 3.2 liters.
See http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine%5Fperformance%5Fproducts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/custom%5Fengine%5Fprogram/FI%5Fcustom%5Fengine%5Fprogram/

 

[BATMANs]

I'm on the fence if I want to re-sleeve my engine since 450rwhp might be on the very edge of what the engine can handle before it apparently ovals/warp the OEM sleeves.

Did you and SOS have a discussion about sleeves and your power goals?

 

[RYU]

Hi Bruce,

Impressive results. No wonder why I didn't see you in your car at Spring Mtn.

Are you monitoring IATs by any chance? Are you using the stock throttle body?

Also, PM me about your snow kit. I might be interested.

 

[bruce91nsx]

Did you and SOS have a discussion about sleeves and your power goals?

Power goals, yes; sleeves, no.

Hi Bruce,
Impressive results. No wonder why I didn't see you in your car at Spring Mtn.
Are you monitoring IATs by any chance? Are you using the stock throttle body?
Also, PM me about your snow kit. I might be interested.

IATs during tuning in Tempe started at 110, spiked to 240 at redline then
immediately came back down. It gets hot but cools quickly. Again, I think
this shows the charger is at its efficiency limit.

I have the big-bore throttle body from SOS.

Will look for specific info on the methanol kit and PM you.

thanks!...looking forward to Pahrump in the spring!

 

[BATMANs]

.....I have the big-bore throttle body from SOS.

Will look for specific info on the methanol kit and PM you.

thanks!...looking forward to Pahrump in the spring!

How much does that big-bore throttle body from SOS help for a blower application?

I've heard that for a blower with a fixed boost it doesn't help. For NA and turbos it helps with the right set up.

Also I heard that meth injection kits doesn't work as well in positive displacement blower as opposed to BBSC and turbos.