New Nurburgring run and testing with competitors

[stevenlucksek]

http://acuraconnected.com/2015/06/16/nsx-prototype-sighting-at-the-nurburgring/

this was posted as in the photo suggest that this run or testing was just being tested recently and with comparison with other supercar? Anybody have info on this?

 

[effer]

No replies so far?


Just saw a video showing how aerodynamically sophisticated is the new Ferrari 488 GTB ... Wow! ( See on Motor Trend site )

Honda should be on par with Ferrari.

[video]http://wot.motortrend.com/1506_see_the_2016_ferrari_488_gtbs_aerodynamics_in_action_wvideo.html?sm_id=social_aumomotortrendhub_MotorTrend_20150618_47787956&adbid=10153043529751312&adbpl=fb&adbpr=18332466311[/video]

 

[seaeyes]

The aero of 2nd gen NSX probably is even more complicated. I remember there was a video in which Ted explained the aero of the hood vent, front fender vent and the vent under the spoiler of the new NSX. It's extremely complicated.

 

[JD Cross]

The designers of these new cars seem to have spent a lot of time increasing downforce without the drag of big tack-on wings and other bolt on aero pieces.
The Ferrari video says 325 kg of downforce at 250 kph which is significantly higher than say the 02+ Type-R.
I'm glad we're seeing the end of the tack-on aero.
It's a dated look now.
The shapes of the new designs are much more pleasing.

 

[gfunk808]

Speaking of big wings, notice that slow white car in the background trying to catch up? :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[JD Cross]

Speaking of big wings, notice that slow white car in the background trying to catch up? :biggrin::biggrin:

With the iconic shape of the 911, with it's steep rear slope plus rearward weight bias, Porsche has little choice but to add an aero wing.
They do however style it very well compared to many add-ons I've seen.

All wings like this on an NSX do is add drag and understeer

 

[Superfluous]

 

[areout]

With the iconic shape of the 911, with it's steep rear slope plus rearward weight bias, Porsche has little choice but to add an aero wing.
They do however style it very well compared to many add-ons I've seen.

All wings like this on an NSX do is add drag and understeer

View attachment 125012

not if you couple it with a nice front wing(and add some pressure to rear tires)

 

[JD Cross]

not if you couple it with a nice front wing(and add some pressure to rear tires)

You are quite right if you add front downforce to balance the handling it will deal with understeer, but you still have the extra weight and drag to overcome.

Could you elaborate in the tire pressure?
I think I can learn something here.

 

[N Spec]

It's sounding pretty sweet to me from this decent video capture

 

[Adamantium]

Distinct sound of spitting flames, even though it isn't in the video.

 

[areout]

You are quite right if you add front downforce to balance the handling it will deal with understeer, but you still have the extra weight and drag to overcome.

Could you elaborate in the tire pressure?
I think I can learn something here.

more rear tire pressure = more oversteer/less understeer, vice versa for front tires

 

[illwillem]

You have to adjust quite a few things to do it right. Tuning for aero is quite complicated and involves every component to work in tandem- splitters, swaybars, rake, toe, spring rates etc. Ive been doing it a long time and still feel like im scratching the surface. Tire pressures are typically just some additional fine tuning you can do at the track to account for conditions that day/session. Handling feeling moves in relatively small increments by souly adjusting pressures while it has huge implications in effecting your optimum contact patch, goldenlap sweet spot, balance, and overall tire life.

 

[JD Cross]

more rear tire pressure = more oversteer/less understeer, vice versa for front tires

According to the Tire Rack website:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=58

Adjustments

Higher Front Tire Pressure = Decrease Understeer
Lower Rear Tire Pressure = Decrease Understeer

This suggests higher rear tire pressure decreases oversteer not increases it as you suggest.
What is your source of info?

 

[jwmelvin]

Neither is universally correct. I think you will both agree that there is an optimum tire pressure for grip and that deviating in either direction will ultimately cause a loss of grip for that tire. So it's impossible to simply state that you can increase/decrease pressure to increase/decrease grip. It depends where you are starting from relative to the ideal. There is some reasonable discussion in this thread.

Here is a NHTSA study of the relationship, although it didn't look at peak forces, just how the force changes when pressure drops.

Here is a paper on pressure in Formula SAE tires, showing the complexity; I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

 

[JD Cross]

Neither is universally correct. I think you will both agree that there is an optimum tire pressure for grip and that deviating in either direction will ultimately cause a loss of grip for that tire. So it's impossible to simply state that you can increase/decrease pressure to increase/decrease grip. It depends where you are starting from relative to the ideal. There is some reasonable discussion in this thread.

Here is a NHTSA study of the relationship, although it didn't look at peak forces, just how the force changes when pressure drops.

Here is a paper on pressure in Formula SAE tires, showing the complexity; I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

The above two papers really show how complex the science is and I can understand your point about nothing is universally correct.
They've convinced me that I don't understand much so I'll just stick to recommended oem pressures. :smile:

 

[jwmelvin]

Rather than ceding this area of control, the thing to do is start with, for example, the OEM pressures, and then make small adjustments and feel the change. This is all complicated by the increase in pressure as temperatures rise, but there is no doubt that you can learn from experience if you pay attention. I have seen that when pressures (hot) are around 40, grip definitely suffers. Things seem much better in the 36-38 range.

But, as seems to be my tendency, this thread has derailed. You may not like the look of large aero components, but that does not make them ineffective. My understanding is that claims of downforce from road cars are rarely all that accurate, and further do not reflect the efficiency of that downforce. That said, I prefer to drive around in a car without large aero components.

 

[docjohn]

well at least no spontaneous weeny roasts and no underwear strewn about:wink:

 

[gfunk808]

What is the cause of that slight popping noise on every shift?

 

[docjohn]

turbo wastegate........psssstfftsstt

 

[areout]

According to the Tire Rack website:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=58

Adjustments

Higher Front Tire Pressure = Decrease Understeer
Lower Rear Tire Pressure = Decrease Understeer

This suggests higher rear tire pressure decreases oversteer not increases it as you suggest.
What is your source of info?

depends from the starting point, but the final result should be less grip on the rear wheels which would mean more oversteer/less understeer, and yes sometimes you do it with less pressure sometimes more, it's not universal so my mistake there