NSX Turbo vs. BMW 335i

[kookoo4nsx]

When I ran my NSX on the dyno my first full rpm pull made 304hp or so at the wheels and that's with a 3lb spring. The dyno registered 3psi.

A new BMW 335I is also a 3L motor with Twin turbo's and puts out 300 hp in stock form which probably translates to about 250 at the wheels.

What psi does the BMW run? Is the difference because the NSX is higher compression? I assume the turbo's on the BMW are quite small. Also I don't know if the BMW has any VTEC type system. Finally the BMW redlines quite a bit lower than the NSX. Any thoughts?

 

[mlambert890]

When I ran my NSX on the dyno my first full rpm pull made 304hp or so at the wheels and that's with a 3lb spring. The dyno registered 3psi.

A new BMW 335I is also a 3L motor with Twin turbo's and puts out 300 hp in stock form which probably translates to about 250 at the wheels.

What psi does the BMW run? Is the difference because the NSX is higher compression? I assume the turbo's on the BMW are quite small. Also I don't know if the BMW has any VTEC type system. Finally the BMW redlines quite a bit lower than the NSX. Any thoughts?

BMW has VANOS for variable valve timing. Lots of factors go into how much power you extract from an engine given a specific displacement and geometry. They are aiming for fuel economy, reliability and, most importantly, distance from M3

All of that is market driven engineering constraint. Basically, they de-tune it

 

[JoshuaWong1989]

If I remember correctly, the BMW 335i with the N54 engine runs 7psi with over boosting up to 11psi to compensate for atmospheric differences such as thinner air high up. It is widely regarded that the 335i is underrated at 300hp when in fact it makes more like 320hp.

 

[Moses]

Thought they stopped making the twin turbo model?

 

[rsevo6]

Recently when driving with my 300+ Bhp MR2 Turbo, I encountered a guy with 335i convertible trying to outrun me from one trafficlight to the next (mind you, this was a main road with no pedestrian access and no other crossings, so clear going:wink.

Anyhow, over a distance of about 500m before having to slow down for the next light, I was able to pull about 1-1.5 car length ahead of him (and I even had a bit of a hiccup when almost mis-shifting to 2nd gear as there is bit of play in the shiftcables). When standing for the next light, he didn't dare to look at me. Probably was not too pleased, losing from a 17 year old sporty looking Toyota on which he probably had no idea what it was :biggrin:

I looked up the specs of the 335i later: 306 Bhp 7 speed auto with 0-100Km/h time of 5.7 sec (about the same acceleration time as a standard '98 3.2L NSX was rated on in the specs)

I have no doubt that with my '98 CTSC NSX I would have destroyed him as this is clearly faster than my MR2 or standard NSX

 

[MvM]

Recently when driving with my 300+ Bhp MR2 Turbo, I encountered a guy with 335i convertible trying to outrun me from one trafficlight to the next (mind you, this was a main road with no pedestrian access and no other crossings, so clear going:wink.

Anyhow, over a distance of about 500m before having to slow down for the next light, I was able to pull about 1-1.5 car length ahead of him (and I even had a bit of a hiccup when almost mis-shifting to 2nd gear as there is bit of play in the shiftcables). When standing for the next light, he didn't dare to look at me. Probably was not too pleased, losing from a 17 year old sporty looking Toyota on which he probably had no idea what it was :biggrin:

I looked up the specs of the 335i later: 306 Bhp 7 speed auto with 0-100Km/h time of 5.7 sec (about the same acceleration time as a standard '98 3.2L NSX was rated on in the specs)

I have no doubt that with my '98 CTSC NSX I would have destroyed him as this is clearly faster than my MR2 or standard NSX

Hi Rene

Don't you know better than to humiliate BMW drivers on a public road.
You know very well that it is absolutely extremely dangerous to do something like that :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

I have once encountered a 135i who wanted to play at the entrance of a highway when I was in my NSX. AFAIK, the 135i has the same engine as the 335i and still he could not keep up with me. Of course, we didn't go that fast (I NEVER would do that..), but, like you, the driver certainly was not pleased.

In general, I find that factory 0-100 (0-60) acceleration times tend to be a bit optimistic. It is usualy VERY HARD to duplicate those numbers in the street and even then, one has to really work to achieve them. Like launching the car at 3000-3500 rpm, shifting at redline etc.
Most drivers will not do that and will therefore always fall short of factory specs in what they can actually achieve.
The very first time I did some 0-100kph runs my times (as measured with the AP-22) my NSX times were around 7 seconds and I remember being very disappointed at that. It was only later that I figured it had nothing to do with the car but everything with the way I was using it.

 

[Hasdrubal]

You also have to remember that all BMW cars come standard with the BMW attitude adjustment package.

More seriously, I think the BMW factory turbos are tuned more to improve mid-range torque than to get peak hp.

 

[rsevo6]

It was only later that I figured it had nothing to do with the car but everything with the way I was using it.

SO START TRAINING: tongue::biggrin:

I slightly disagree with your opinion as far as automatics are concerned: any idiot should be able to get close to the acceleration specs with an auto as it is just about pushing the accelerator into the floor and let the car do the rest.
So if I can humiliate an automatic having a 0-100Km/h 5.7 sec factory spec, either my MR2 is rediculously quick, or I seem to do my shifting quite well, or possibly a combination of the two :smile::biggrin::wink:

 

[rsevo6]

You also have to remember that all BMW cars come standard with the BMW attitude adjustment package.

That is exactly the reason why I don't have a BMW even though I do like several of their models. Don't want to undergo the fore mentioned attitude adjustment package :frown::wink:

 

[SuperSonic]

That is exactly the reason why I don't have a BMW even though I do like several of their models. Don't want to undergo the fore mentioned attitude adjustment package :frown::wink:

Lol. Must be true. The host of attack of the show on g4,kevin, said when you want to show up and be the life of the party and have literally no personality, buy the m3.

 

[MvM]

SO START TRAINING: tongue::biggrin:

I slightly disagree with your opinion as far as automatics are concerned: any idiot should be able to get close to the acceleration specs with an auto as it is just about pushing the accelerator into the floor and let the car do the rest.
So if I can humiliate an automatic having a 0-100Km/h 5.7 sec factory spec, either my MR2 is rediculously quick, or I seem to do my shifting quite well, or possibly a combination of the two :smile::biggrin::wink:

Well. that was some time ago.
However, of course, nowaday, I try to be very gentle with my car :smile:

You could very well be right with the automatic gearbox BMW.
And yes, your MR2 is rediculously fast :biggrin:

 

[JoshuaWong1989]

NSX are fast car no doubt, but some tuned 335i are no slouch :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ivf6M5cVWc

Just a piggyback tune, and some others stuff

 

[JoshuaWong1989]

Recently when driving with my 300+ Bhp MR2 Turbo, I encountered a guy with 335i convertible trying to outrun me from one trafficlight to the next (mind you, this was a main road with no pedestrian access and no other crossings, so clear going:wink.

Anyhow, over a distance of about 500m before having to slow down for the next light, I was able to pull about 1-1.5 car length ahead of him (and I even had a bit of a hiccup when almost mis-shifting to 2nd gear as there is bit of play in the shiftcables). When standing for the next light, he didn't dare to look at me. Probably was not too pleased, losing from a 17 year old sporty looking Toyota on which he probably had no idea what it was :biggrin:

I looked up the specs of the 335i later: 306 Bhp 7 speed auto with 0-100Km/h time of 5.7 sec (about the same acceleration time as a standard '98 3.2L NSX was rated on in the specs)

I have no doubt that with my '98 CTSC NSX I would have destroyed him as this is clearly faster than my MR2 or standard NSX

Tuned vs stock is not exactly fair :biggrin: and convertibles are the slowest out of the coupe,sedan,wagon, group.

 

[rsevo6]

Tuned vs stock is not exactly fair :biggrin: and convertibles are the slowest out of the coupe,sedan,wagon, group.

Your point??
The 335i convertible has 0-100Km/h time of 5.7 in automatic version, who cares what the other ones do.
This was the one who wanted to sport, undoubtedly with the idea to demolish that little sporty Toyota, (general Beamer attitude??). I think my modest MR2 could take on all the 335i versions.

Point of the first question was if a NSX could have taken the 335i and as I feel my MR2 to be equal or a bit quicker than a NSX my answer was : probably yes.

I have no problem at all to use a slightly tuned car to humiliate a BMW, the fun is no less :biggrin::wink:

 

[N Spec]

Stock for stock, it's a driver's race. The NSX does not even need FI to compete. Yes, the ~270hp NSX vs a 320~ hp TT 335i is about equal. I have raced one a long time ago in my heavier 95T with 18/19 and it was clearly evident mine was faster.

As for recent testing:

2007 335i sedan tiptronic auto on map 3 with increased boost. Had about ~300 lbs extra weight in the car. This was the best run out of 4. Shave off .3-.5 seconds to accommodate for the extra weight. I think this car would definitely best me on a highway roll as we could not get it to launch right and it had a lot of junk in the trunk, with me as a passenger also.

1992 NSX manual with 17/18 wheels and HKS exhaust launched at 3K rpm. No passenger, spare or jack. Check out that trap speed! Time was achieved with TSC off, first run with TSC on was at 15 secs! Pretty much stock, as the HKS is just lighter, but sounds OEM...

Testing occured late night with similar temp and conditions via HTC EVO aDyno app. Seems like a decently accurate program. It even gave me some whp readings and the NSX was spot on at around 245whp!

 

[mlambert890]

That is exactly the reason why I don't have a BMW even though I do like several of their models. Don't want to undergo the fore mentioned attitude adjustment package :frown::wink:

Odd, I've had 3 BMWs incl my current 330xi and was never aware of this - Im a big BMW fan and think they're great cars. IMO when you put this much thought into BS things like "image" and "typical drivers" you only do yourself a disservice.

 

[rossii]

In general, I find that factory 0-100 (0-60) acceleration times tend to be a bit optimistic. It is usualy VERY HARD to duplicate those numbers in the street and even then, one has to really work to achieve them.

Actually BMW factory #'s are conservative their cars are usually faster than what specs show.

 

[rsevo6]

Odd, I've had 3 BMWs incl my current 330xi and was never aware of this - Im a big BMW fan and think they're great cars. IMO when you put this much thought into BS things like "image" and "typical drivers" you only do yourself a disservice.

There is no doubt that BMW has some very nice models which I wouldn't mind driving.
My point is that here in The Netherlands, and quite a few other neighbouring countries, the image of BMW drivers is regarded as not so nice.
As in: agressive driving style, a bit anti-social attitide, in heavy traffic pushing in front of others demanding to be first, you get the idea? I just don't see myself fitting in that category.

 

[Hasdrubal]

They do make some great cars, I had an E30 before the NSX and I loved it. I know that's not the widest range of BMW experience, but something about the way it felt seemed to encourage me to push it a little more than I perhaps should have on public roads.

Mind you, I never raced anyone, but I could tell that I drove more aggressively than I have in other cars, including the NSX which is obviously much faster. They are also marketed as being more sporty than other similar range cars, Mercedes, Audi, Jaguar, etc, and that attracts a different sort of driver with a different sort of attitude.

Of course not all of them are bad, but it's just like with sportbikes. Most riders are fairly responsible, but it only takes one guy doing a standup wheelie past you at 90 mph on the freeway to put a bad taste in your mouth.

 

[Driver5]

Odd, I've had 3 BMWs incl my current 330xi and was never aware of this - Im a big BMW fan and think they're great cars. IMO when you put this much thought into BS things like "image" and "typical drivers" you only do yourself a disservice.

I've had 4 BMWs and currently own a E39 M5. I've actually been aware of the so called "attitude" that BMW owners have. However, I've only seen it with newer model owners who buy BMWs for "status" versus the enthusiast owner. I usually only get thumbs up or gas station conversation from folks who know BMWs. I tried to strike a conversation with a guy in a E60 550 and he was very unfriendly. I've had similar experiences with new M3 owners as well. Doesn't really bother me though. I'm sure there is a combination of owners with Benz and Audi, too.

 

[arizsun21]

I have a 08' 335i Sedan.

I don't know much about FI NSX's and straight line speed but I am sure on a track the NSX will do much better then a 335i. As for the straight line speed I have only done a Vishnu Procede V5 tune and ran a 13.1. There are many people in the mid to low 12's and a few knocking on the door of 10's. After a long wait there are a few companies offering turbo upgrades and Meth injection seems to be the new way to go.

I can't wait to find the right NSX to add to my garage to keep the 335i warm at night :biggrin:

 

[alum04org]

I have a 08' 335i Sedan.

I don't know much about FI NSX's and straight line speed but I am sure on a track the NSX will do much better then a 335i. As for the straight line speed I have only done a Vishnu Procede V5 tune and ran a 13.1. There are many people in the mid to low 12's and a few knocking on the door of 10's. After a long wait there are a few companies offering turbo upgrades and Meth injection seems to be the new way to go.

I can't wait to find the right NSX to add to my garage to keep the 335i warm at night :biggrin:

Quite refreshing. You will let us know if you need input to make that happen?

I heard Bromley was offering a square deal on a silver NA1 NSX...

:biggrin:

 

[swbatte]

I bought my 335i to sit in the garage next to my NSX. When people ask about the Bimmer, I say that my 335i is the perfect four door car. I considered getting a 2 door, but having the practicality of a four door is great, and there's no performance penalty to speak of.

I don't see a 335i as a competitor to the NSX in any regard. The NSX is a unique and special car. Regardless of hp, 0-60 times etc I don't see them as a target for the other.

I have to say I feel cheated, as my car didn't come with the attitude adjustment you're talking about. I'll call my dealer.

 

[Swifty2k]

I recently sold my Black BMW 550i (6 speed).
While partaking in BMW culture, I DID realize the BMW "attitude adjustment".
At track days, most of the BMW guys would huddle up and trash talk other brands... ... Instead of referencing the skill of a driver, they would discuss how much he paid for his car, etc.

Mind you, I'm in a relatively small town, and the only 'luxury marque' dealership is BMW...

I'm sure most of them have yet to receive their adjustment...

 

[JoshuaWong1989]

where I am its kind of 50/50, there are some really cocky drivers i must admit. But then again BMW here is dime a dozen so its not really that prestigious and no reason to be cocky about.