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NSX vs. 993 again......(long)

Joined
16 April 2001
Messages
28
Location
Boca Raton, FL
After reviewing the past threads (including NSXTacy's remarks) I've decided to respond by starting a new thread. There were some great points in the last one, and some I don't completely agree on. In my opinon the two cars have a very fundamental diff. The 993 was developed as a race car, then tamed for the streets. The NSX was designed from the start as the ultimate street car. I reference some simple design diff. to prove my point. For example when I go to the track with Doc we pit together and help each other work on our cars. As I mentioed I was also the owner of a 92 NSX for a year. On the 993 the process of changing brake pads entails removing the wheel, unclipping the pad carrier and swaping the pads, maybe two minutes a wheel. On the NSX the entire caliper has to be pulled off, 10-15 minutes.
Secondly is the steering, now I'm talking about early non-power NSXs (like my old one and Docs) I've driven Doc's car on the track. There is no question that it handles amazing! The car is like a scalpel on turn-in. However steering effort required is substantially more than my 993(also non-power). For a street car that spends a majority of time going straight, that fine, it makes the NSX feel very tight on the street, however on the track it is less comfortable to drive for extended stints than my 993.
The pedals on the Porsche were criticized for being bizzare, and ackward. They are indeed different. The fact that the pedals come up from the floor, as opposed to down from under the dash means that the clutch foot has to stay in the air, no heel pivot (unless you have Shaq feet). This is less comfortable for street use than the NSX's standard set-up. Caught in traffic or just tooling around town, I'd pick the NSX over the 993 9 of 10 times. That said, I feel the 993 pedal layout is better for track use. My car is worlds easier to heel-toe than the NSX. In the porsche you don't even have to bend you ankle. If you roll your heel down while braking with the ball of your foot, the gas is there.
I could go on, but the point is this. The NSX and the 993 are so different that instead of "bashing" one or the other I'm simply thankful for the opportunity to have evaluated them from experience. We shouldn't forget how fortunate we are to be driving these cars. I don't think its fair to say that either car is superior. It all comes down to the priorities and preferences of the owners.
 
I would have to say...WELL SAID. There's no point in trying to convince anyone which is the better car. To whoever drives it there are those reasons that they saw fit to chose one over the other.

Either way...you drive one awesome machine and should have as much fun on or off the track as possible regardless.

Personally I PREFER the NSX to the 993-996 911s but that's not to say that the Porsches are inferior. Just different...and for some things even make a little bit more sense. Again, it's all subjective. Neither car sucks...and neither car is the end all be all of sports cars.

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Got dat ol' vee six cilnder inder?

http://www.nextestdrive.net
 
Good to see this thread is much more reasonable about the NSX vs the world debate. I spent years convinced I wanted a 911 (and then a 993) but when I was in the position to buy one, I drove the Porsche, drove the C5 and then got a chance to drive the NSX. for me, it wasn't even close. The other two were great cars to drive but the NSX was the one I connected with - it just felt right. I do have occasional twinges, when I see better performace in a particular test from a car other than the NSX, or as new body styles come out, but in real world day to day driving, the NSX is the best choice....for me. An thats all that should matter to anyone buying a performance car, unless your realy buying an image car. Just my 2 cents.
 
I'm enjoying these comments. It's one thing to say "I like X car better than Y car" - anyone can have an opinion, and one person's is just as valid as another. But it's really enlightening for someone to say "Another difference is the xxxxxx, which is this way in this car and that way in the other car, and the reason I like it this way is because..." It helps us to understand what the advantages and disadvantages are of each car so that each of us can decide whether these would be important to us or not.

(BTW, you don't have to remove the caliper entirely when replacing pads in the NSX; you can remove the bottom bolt and loosen the top bolt, and use it as a pivot to flip the caliper up. But this is not as easy as some other brake systems and it sounds like the 993 is one of those.)
 
Originally posted by Lud:
Does Porsche makes the 993 calipers, or are they from Brembo?


porsche has a couple different types of calipers for the 993, but the big reds for the turbo are made for porsche by brembo. they have a smaller caliper (but still a big brake), sold as an option, also made by brembo. I am not sure if the standard equipment calipers for non turbo 993's are from brembo.


[This message has been edited by justin hall (edited 28 April 2001).]
 
All porsche calipers are made by brembo since the mid-eighties. Nsxtacy, using this pivot method gives enough room to slide the pads out? If so I'm sure that would help save some time. Also, do you guys do anything to treat the bolts (anti-seize) or anything? On docs car the heat expansion is so great that they are bitch to remove after every heat cycle.
BTW Porsche/Brembo made a giant leap forward with the "monoblock" brakes on the 996 and 986. On my car, and the big reds, the caliper is two parts held together with through bolts. On the Boxster and 996 they found a way to machine a soild peice of billet. The entire caliper is one part and therefore much stronger.
 
Originally posted by aaron:
The pedals on the Porsche were criticized for being bizzare, and ackward

they are ackward for the first 10 minutes or so, but you get used to it as I did with more seat time.

Originally posted by aaron:
My car is worlds easier to heel-toe than the NSX. ..... If you roll your heel down while braking with the ball of your foot, the gas is there.

I totally agree, that is one of the first things I noticed.
 
If they are Brembo then that explains why they are so easy to change. The Brembo calipers I have on my NSX are the same. I do not think Honda did a particularly good job with the NSX brakes and I'm not really sure why they didn't just sub it out to Brembo, other than cost. That and the lack of a dry-sump oil system are two places I think Honda really compromised the out-of-the-box track performance of the car for the sake of saving money.

But any sports car is a set of compromises. I feel the NSX makes the least compromises for my personal use of a sports/GT car. I have driven/ridden in numerous iterations of the Porsche 9xx series cars and they are quite nice, but I was never moved to replace my NSX with one.

[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 28 April 2001).]
 
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...BTW, you don't have to remove the caliper entirely when replacing pads in the NSX; you can remove the bottom bolt and loosen the top bolt, and use it as a pivot to flip the caliper up...

I'll try this the next time I swap out my pads, it sounds so much easier. Also, will this method work with stainless steel brake lines. I found that I also had to loosen the line mounts to get the caliper competely away from the rotor.
 
Nsxtacy, using this pivot method gives enough room to slide the pads out?

Yes, it does. However, the caliper won't remain flipped up by itself (unlike on my Integra GS-R) so you'll need either someone to hold it or a wire to tie it in the upright position. The stock brake lines aren't a problem; I'm not sure about the SS ones.
 
Maybe you can use a coat-hanger shepped into a U with small hooks to secure the caliper in the up position...
As far a Acura's choice to not sub out the brakes to Brembo I think Lud hit it, Cost! have you seen the prices for brembos equipt. Also I think that the fact that they were able to design an in-house brake system that is far above average for street use, and still get a system that is adaquate for track use(track dependant) it made financial sense. Also, Porsche had an established sports car customer base. They have know for years that enthusiasts want to do minor work(ie. brake pads, oil changes) and have targeted these consumer demands. Perhaps Honda simply dropped the ball in realizing that their enthusiast customer base would want easy pad swap calipers. As a side note, Porsche may have know what customers wanted, and gave us the brake pad change, however to help feed their service network they made the oil change procedure so difficult thats its almost impossible without a lift. Its always about the $$$$$
 
Originally posted by scottjua:
I would have to say...WELL SAID. There's no point in trying to convince anyone which is the better car. To whoever drives it there are those reasons that they saw fit to chose one over the other.

Either way...you drive one awesome machine and should have as much fun on or off the track as possible regardless.

Haha! Well, I hadn't quite thought of it this way, but what the hell! After all, I do own BOTH of these cars (NSX & C4S) and they BOTH by far among the top 5 cars ever made. Just for reference, I would toss the 360 Modena in there too. The remaining 2 slots in the top 5 are up for grabs.
smile.gif


Well, Thanks gang for starting a new more sensible thread and moving this discussion in a more productive direction.

........................
Gordon G. Miller, III
2001 Acura MDX
2000 Acura NSX-T
1996 Porsche C4S
1975 Porsche 911S
 
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