NSX won't start

[Martin_VTEC]

I put a new battery clamp on the ground cable, I checked the contacts of the starte motor, they are
nice and clean, no rust or what so ever.

I'll remove the starte motor and give it an overhaull this weekend.

about the ignition switch: I hear a click when turning the key, so the starter motor get's a signal
am i right ?

 

[chudson1549]

Right, If you turn the key to start the car and just get a click from the engine bay you should be getting a signal to the starter. When you take the starter off just look at the bushing. Mine were almost half the thickness of a penny. I ordered another starter and all has been great. I need to get my original rebuilt now that I'm thinking about it.

I did this only after chasing parts to my car. So I replaced my ignition switch first, Main relay, Both ground wires. new battery and the car would work for about two days and I'm stuck with a no start. Once almost with Netviper at Roebling. So after all that. I said let me check my starter and there is was.
HTH Charles

 

[pgilliam1]

If the click you hear is from the starter solenoid, then yes the ignition switch is sending it current. I mentioned the ignition switch as a preventative measure because it's a known failure on these cars and an easy DIY. The engine grounds are located by the alternator and the coolant tank. The starter uses these grounds.

 

[chudson1549]

if the click you hear is from the starter solenoid, then yes the ignition switch is sending it current. I mentioned the ignition switch as a preventative measure because it's a known failure on these cars and an easy diy. The engine grounds are located by the alternator and the coolant tank. The starter uses these grounds.

+1 ^

 

[Martin_VTEC]

Ok, so first of all I replaced the negative battery clamp, the negative cable was good connected on the chassis.

I got my startermotor back and they say that the starter was in good condition
except for 1 contact point, the right contact point in the picture is half way through...



So they replaced both contact points. Could this be the case that the starter failed 2 times in a year ?

 

[chudson1549]

Both of my contacts we over half the thickness of how your worst one looked. That COULD BE IT if you had it happen only two times. I would look at your grounds just to be safe and see what happens. Those dont look too bad.

 

[Martin_VTEC]

So, problem still not solved
someone pushed me again on my way back and I could get home..

so when i got home, turned of the engine and tried to start it again...nothing.
I pulled of the black/white wire of the solenoid terminal and measured the current when i turned the key. It was 11.9 Volt. That's good.
I bypassed the ignition switch circuit by using a jumper and connect it via a battery charger to the solenoid terminal. Stil nothing.
Note: I didn't had the key in the ignition switch.



I put the connector from the black/white wire back on the solenoid terminal and a half hour late when I tried to start the engine, it started..

I had my starter removed a few months ago and it was fully inspected, it was in good condition and they have measured everything. They only replaced the contact points.

It seems that it only occurs when the engine/starter is hot ...So it must be a faulty component in the starter? witch wont't work when warm/hot ?

any idea's ?

 

[Briank]

If you are powering the starter solenoid and the starter does not engage most likely you have a starter problem. Next time it happens hit the starter with a hammer and see if it works.

 

[Martin_VTEC]

when I bypassed the starter solenoid , I didn't had the key in the ignition. Is that necessary to turn over the starter ?

To hit the starter with a hammer, isn't that the solution for when the bushings are very thin ?
My starter has been inspected, could it be a electrical component in the starter which goes bad when it's getting warm? So when they measured everything when the starter whas cold it was ok?

A good example are the main relay and the Igniter unit i had, When the car was cold, no problem.

 

[comtec]

when I bypassed the starter solenoid , I didn't had the key in the ignition. Is that necessary to turn over the starter ?

To hit the starter with a hammer, isn't that the solution for when the bushings are very thin ?
My starter has been inspected, could it be a electrical component in the starter which goes bad when it's getting warm? So when they measured everything when the starter whas cold it was ok?

A good example are the main relay and the Igniter unit i had, When the car was cold, no problem.

Martin,
The ignition does not need to be on for that. You may have a dead spot in the armature of the starter or as the manual states "open circuit in starter armature commutator segments".

If you checked the engine ground wires, the battery cable to the starter and jumping the solenoid does nothing it almost has to be the starter.




btw... hitting the starter with a hammer is the old school way jarring the starter to get past a dead spot on the armature. EDIT..Someone needs to be turning the key to start while tapping the starter with a hammer. Doesn't always work.

Mike

 

[jorligan]

Same thing happened to me, turned the key and I heard a click with the starter solenoid engaging. Starts with a push. Changed to a new Optima Red Top, same problem. Drove the car 60 miles today and then started right up. Drove the car home 60 miles and no issues. Of note, the starter now finally turns rapidly so even with a new battery, they are not always fully charged.

Debating now whether to change the starter since I am going to XPO.

 

[biscuits]

So, problem still not solved
someone pushed me again on my way back and I could get home..

so when i got home, turned of the engine and tried to start it again...nothing.
I pulled of the black/white wire of the solenoid terminal and measured the current when i turned the key. It was 11.9 Volt. That's good.
I bypassed the ignition switch circuit by using a jumper and connect it via a battery charger to the solenoid terminal. Stil nothing.
Note: I didn't had the key in the ignition switch.



I put the connector from the black/white wire back on the solenoid terminal and a half hour late when I tried to start the engine, it started..

I had my starter removed a few months ago and it was fully inspected, it was in good condition and they have measured everything. They only replaced the contact points.

It seems that it only occurs when the engine/starter is hot ...So it must be a faulty component in the starter? witch wont't work when warm/hot ?

any idea's ?

I believe your problem is the very wire you just reattached. Mine had similar problems and I found my wires connected had some type of corrosion on it. I cleaned it with steel wool and crimped it tighter and havnt had a problem since. I would inspect it closely.

 

[syndicate]

Have you tried testing the battery with a multimeter BEFORE AND DURING crank? Also, check the battery tie down to make sure the protective black coating hasn't flaked off and is causing a short between the battery terminals.

***Edit*** Just saw post above about starter solenoid wire being tested and it not starting even though it works.

 

[Martin_VTEC]

@Comtec:
Engine ground wires are checked,
Can an "open circuit in starter armature commutator segments" be fixed ? Isn't that something
they check when refurbishing the starter ?
I'll put a hammer in the car and When this problem happens again I will ask someone to hit the
starter... but I still got a feeling that this problem only occurs when the engine is warm....

@Biscuits:
If I bypass that cable the starter still doesn't work, so I don't beleive it's that cable

@Syndicate, Jorligan:
The batterie is new, also the battery clamps, When it starts, the starter turn's rapidly.

 

[comtec]

@Comtec:
Engine ground wires are checked,
Can an "open circuit in starter armature commutator segments" be fixed ? Isn't that something
they check when refurbishing the starter ?
I'll put a hammer in the car and When this problem happens again I will ask someone to hit the
starter... but I still got a feeling that this problem only occurs when the engine is warm....

Martin,
The worn contact point from your picture is the solenoid plunger contacts.

I don't know who did your starter but a armature check is something that normally would be done. If you just paid a mechanic to do it maybe not but any good electric motor shop should have checked it.

When it's not working have you tried bumping the starter to see if it spins? In other words, bypassing the solenoid. Solenoids have been known to stop working when they get hot so momentarily touching 12v (jumper cable) directly to the starter input should tell you if it's the solenoid. I don't know if there are user serviceable parts for the solenoid so it's possible they did nothing to it besides changing the contact points.

Mike

 

[Martin_VTEC]

Mike:

It only occurs when the engine is warm. So yes, I only tried bypassing the solenoid when the engine is hot. It didn't help.
Tonight I went to car again and it wil always start when the engine is cold.
I started the car for 20 times in 10 minutes this evening, starts great... But when i'll go driving , warming up the car for a hour, it can happen that it won't start when i turn it of and on again.

I hear a click when i turn the key, when the black/white cable is on AND when it's off
They only changed the contact points. They said everything else was in good condition.

 

[comtec]

Martin,
I am not talking about when you bypassed the BLK/WHT wire. There should be a cable coming from the large part (left in pic) of the starter that attaches to the smaller part bottom (right) of this picture, below the BLK/WHT cable connection (^). Voltage there will spin the starter and takes everything else out of the picture, only checks the starter motor. Don't do it very long.

Click is probably the starter cut relay.

Mike

.........................................^ above here

Mike:

It only occurs when the engine is warm. So yes, I only tried bypassing the solenoid when the engine is hot. It didn't help.
Tonight I went to car again and it wil always start when the engine is cold.
I started the car for 20 times in 10 minutes this evening, starts great... But when i'll go driving , warming up the car for a hour, it can happen that it won't start when i turn it of and on again.

I hear a click when i turn the key, when the black/white cable is on AND when it's off
They only changed the contact points. They said everything else was in good condition.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

I deleted my previous comments when I realized I missed your info about directly applying 12V to the selonoid. Really sounds like the starter still needs some work.

Regards,
LarryB

 

[Martin_VTEC]

Mike,
Ok, U mean that I have to put 12 volt on the smaller part bottom (right) of this picture where that cable is connected ? nothing more?

I will test that as soon as the weather get's better. I have to drive a half hour or so for a chance that te starter get's bad..

Thank u, I'll let u know

 

[comtec]

Yes Martin,
When the car won't start, try momentarily touching battery voltage to that cable connection. If the starter spins there try touching the solenoid terminal from the picture that you checked before. If the starter does nothing at the solenoid terminal you have a bad solenoid.

Please be aware that the starter draws a lot of current so only use battery voltage connected with a large cable like a jumper cable.

Mike

 

[zhaninsx]

I appear to be experiencing the exact same problem with my 98 (45k miles):

- Car has been garaged past three months, driven once a week.
- Engine starts fine from cold.
- Drive long enough for engine to get hot.
- Turn off engine for 5-10 minutes.
- Try starting it again. Barely turns over once or twice before going dead.
- Battery appears to be providing sufficient voltage.

If anyone narrows this down to the exact cause then please post the fix!

 

[kaede]

I have a similar problem =( LUCKILY I haven't been stuck yet. So here is what happened:

My 1994 NSX's battery died, so I replaced it last year. I drive the vehicle probably once or twice only per month and I have a battery tender on it so I am pretty sure the battery is charged. Today when i hopped in and started it up, it takes a couple of tries to actually fire the car up. I am thinking its probably just because I haven't driven it in a couple weeks, thats why. Usually after I drive it and when the car has been running for a couple of minutes on the road, restarting never became an issue and usually it just starts strong and fast.

Today though, when I made my 1st stop at a store, when I returned to fire her up, it again took a couple of attempts. It cranks, but probably only once or twice and its weak. After several times the engine does eventually fire up, but that was unusual.

Went for dinner, came back to the car and again, it took MANY attempts to start. Again, the car has battery, lights windows everything works, the engine cranks once or twice weakly every time i turn the ignition, and it still took probably 6-7 times for the engine to actually start.

I know I always had a semi loose negative battery cord, so I'll start by replacing that. Also, read enough other people's experience to think that it might be the Main Relay, gonna order that and replace the old one too since it isn't too expensive. Don't think it's the ignition since the car does crank. But as i say, the engine cranks but seems weak, the car drives fine when it does start, so could it be an early sign that the starter is dying? Anyone chime in? Thanks!!!

 

[comtec]

I have a similar problem =( LUCKILY I haven't been stuck yet. So here is what happened:

My 1994 NSX's battery died, so I replaced it last year. I drive the vehicle probably once or twice only per month and I have a battery tender on it so I am pretty sure the battery is charged. Today when i hopped in and started it up, it takes a couple of tries to actually fire the car up. I am thinking its probably just because I haven't driven it in a couple weeks, thats why. Usually after I drive it and when the car has been running for a couple of minutes on the road, restarting never became an issue and usually it just starts strong and fast.

Today though, when I made my 1st stop at a store, when I returned to fire her up, it again took a couple of attempts. It cranks, but probably only once or twice and its weak. After several times the engine does eventually fire up, but that was unusual.

Went for dinner, came back to the car and again, it took MANY attempts to start. Again, the car has battery, lights windows everything works, the engine cranks once or twice weakly every time i turn the ignition, and it still took probably 6-7 times for the engine to actually start.

I know I always had a semi loose negative battery cord, so I'll start by replacing that. Also, read enough other people's experience to think that it might be the Main Relay, gonna order that and replace the old one too since it isn't too expensive. Don't think it's the ignition since the car does crank. But as i say, the engine cranks but seems weak, the car drives fine when it does start, so could it be an early sign that the starter is dying? Anyone chime in? Thanks!!!

Definately make sure the battery connections are secure first and also check the connection of the battery ground cable where it connects to the body. You probably need a new main relay anyway but i don't think that is the problem. I would think that a main relay or ignition switch problem would normally cause an all or nothing in that sometimes it would start and others it do nothing. What you are describing, slow spinning starter normally means the starter isn't getting enough power (battery or ground) or it could be going bad.

Mike

 

[I1O101I]

Have you checked the

011 35130-SL0-003 SWITCH, STEERING

I have replaced a few nsx. The contacts get worn after sometime.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126038

Bryan

 

[kaede]

Bryan,

If the car engine still turns could it still be the ignition switch though (part # 11 on your picture). Reason I ask is because from previous posts of owners having trouble with the ignition their cars don't even start. OR they start and engine shuts off almost immediate as soon as it fires up. On my NSX, every time i turn the ignition it will turn and crank once or twice only, but it does sound or at least feel less powerful as it usually is. Eventually still fires up and drives like normal. =( regardless I will probably take the ignition switch apart to clean it. Pretty sure i saw a post before posting pictures and instructions of how to get to the igition.

By the sound of it, anything else that I am missing that I should check or replace or is a common issue for NSXs with bad starts/cars that don't start? Thanks guys.