open letter from a cop

[naaman]

..and there we have it in a nutshell. The very reason why the police act as they do. They are schooled on how to break the laws to catch the law breakers. They are themselves criminals who have the ability to interpret the laws how ever they need to in order to substantiate their own conduct. Sad very sad.

Fact is if the cops didn't have the free roam to lie all the damn time society would give them a lot more respect but on the other hand no real criminals would ever be caught. Just about every investigative show on TV shows how the perp got caught without much police work.

I have yet to meet a cop who will allow himself or his conduct to be challanged. They are never wrong!

Challenge me. I welcome it. Just because you might fail to convince me that my safety is unimportant doesn't mean I won't consider what you have to say. What I don't like is when people who only see a small little bit of the picture start preaching from their pulpet about how corrupt cops are because they did this or that for no reason. Trust me: there was a reason. And yes, there are cops who are "bad." But you can't judge all cops based upon what you hear about one or two of them. I mean... look at civilians: all we hear on the news about them is the bad stuff, too, so why aren't we condemning all of society? Why just the cops? And taking it a step further, if the citizenry is corrupt and villainous, how can they be dealt with if law enforcement is limited to acting within the same laws that the citizens are required to?

It's so lame how people think that cops should always take the high road* even if it means getting killed and failing to catch the perpetrator. I mean, there's a reason why cops carry guns! If being a cop were easy, they wouldn't need them! There's a reason why cops have designated marksmen and sharpshooters, because some bad guys just can't be caught by conventional means. There's a reason why police get to park in the red: because if they get a call while they're eating lunch they need to be right next to their vehicle so they can respond as quickly as possible... but what's the point of parking in the red if you're not going to exceed the speed limit as well?

If you want to challenge me, please, by all means, do! But take into consideration the entirety of my statements, not just the parts that can be taken out of context to make cops look like hypocrites.

*The "high road" is not always necessarily the "right" thing to do. That is, depending on what is at risk, it may be more right to inflict pain on someone than to go easy on him. It may even be more right to kill them than to arrest them. For example, if I see a guy on post fleeing from the armory with a weapon, even though it's not loaded, I'm going to shoot him, since a weapon is a tool of death, which suggests his motives for stealing one. If you steal a weapon, your intention must be to commit some other crime that requires it.

Yeah kind of like the cop who arrested a friend of mine from high school for public urination. I was not there at the time but my friend said he laid down on the ground hands and feet out and was screaming to the officer that he had just had shoulder surgery a few days before. The cop still found it necessary to knee him in the back and yank his arm back thus requiring him to have a second shoulder surgery. How does the cop KNOW his actions are not going to hurt the person the cop is arresting. I know for a fact if they started to throw my wife around she would probably die as she had brain surgery a few years ago and had vertebrae removed from her neck. Cops think they know everything and that they need to treat everyone with the same amount of force which in many cases can cause permanent damage or death to the person who they intended to cause pain but not injury.

Put yourself in the cop's shoes. If you have to arrest someone, what chances are YOU willing to take? How does the cop KNOW that your friend is telling the truth?

Fact is, people do stupid stuff. Public urination? That's not the end of the world, but come on! It's just stupid to do that. If I don't have any wings, I'm not going to try and fly off the top of a skyscraper. If you do something stupid, be ready to pay the price. "Circumstance" is not prejudiced.

Granted: the advantage of cops being human is that they can exercise judgement. Depending on the exact circumstances, the cop may have felt that it was in fact necessary to use the level of force that he did with your friend. Was the cop alone or did he have his partner with him? Was your friend a big guy (football player or some such), or was he scronny? Did your friend have a record, and was the cop aware of it?

As for your wife, the only reason to "throw her around" would be if she were herself acting violent. Cops ARE limited in the amount of force they can use. Will they get away with using more even if they weren't supposed to? Could be. Again, it depends on the severity. If it would be a waste of time and tax dollars to investigate, then let it slide (just like the cop letting you off with a warning when you were going 30 over the speed limit). But if real damage was caused and/or the core of the officer's character comes into question, then yes: by all mean, prosecute.

Yes, there are jerk-cops. I've encountered them. But not all cops are bad, even if YOU think they made a bad call. Unless a person is some sort of expert on law enforcement, they don't have a whole lot of authority or credibility when challenging the judgement calls that a law enforcement official makes "in the heat of the moment."

It's kind of like someone with no kids trying to tell a parent never to spank.

 

[steveny]

Put yourself in the cop's shoes. If you have to arrest someone, what chances are YOU willing to take? How does the cop KNOW that your friend is telling the truth?.

AND how does the cop know he isn't telling the truth. Well he probably doesn't care and is always going to assume that the perp is lying right from the start. It makes the cops job easy that way.

Fact is, people do stupid stuff. Public urination? That's not the end of the world, but come on! It's just stupid to do that.
.

I bet there are very few people including cops who have had to go so bad that they have had to piss in public.

 

[steveny]

Granted: the advantage of cops being human is that they can exercise judgement. Depending on the exact circumstances, the cop may have felt that it was in fact necessary to use the level of force that he did with your friend. Was the cop alone or did he have his partner with him? Was your friend a big guy (football player or some such), or was he scronny? Did your friend have a record, and was the cop aware of it?

\

I don't know if the cop was alone or not. What I do know is this...when the cop said to my friend, do you know that is a 250 dollar fine, my friend said back... if it's gonna cost me that much then just let me finish peeing. At that moment is when the cop went off. Not because my friend threatened his safty but because he said something the cop didn't want to hear. People say things all the time I don't want to hear but I can't twist their arm and jump on their back when they are no threat to me.

It's probably at this point that any cop who reads this will believe it was ok to twist someones arm who had recently had surgery and that in itself is very sad. All this in a country where ther is suppose to be freedom of speech.

 

[naaman]

Ding Ding Ding! Thanks to Kindergarten Cop, we can all breath a sigh of relief at having identified the problem: Police are trained to completely distrust, and expect the worst from, everyone. Guess what buddy - that logic works both ways.

And no... you don't deserve an ounce more respect than the cable repair guy, electric utility guy, cab driver or crab fisherman, all of whom get paid for providing dangerous services.

Clearly, nationwide, the police have lost the respect of the citizens. Who is the more likely culprit - the citizens? or the cops?

You fail to recognize the difference in the "danger." Yes, a cable guy will climb up high or a crab fisherman may die in a storm. But the danger for police officers is one with CONSCIOUS opposition to the police officer. A telephone pole is not going to try and trick the phone guy. Crabs don't hide handguns in their crotch.

The point is that if an idividual chooses to do a dangerous job, it is that individual's responsibility to take the necessary means to ensure his own safety. The cable guy isn't going to run around on your roof without regard for weakspots or slippery spots that he might fall off of/through and hurt himself, but if he did, and then sued you for it, how would you feel? How would you react? Well, cops must act to ensure their own safety as well. If that means being rough so as to prevent the situation from escalating even further, so be it. If he gets in trouble for it, well, it'd be better than getting killed because he was not vigilant.

The difference is that police officers put their lives on the line to ensure that YOU get to live the kind of lifestyle you want without having to look over your shoulder every minute of everyday. A cop's job is to oppose people who are breaking the law AND to prevent laws from being borken. When a cop tells someone that they can't do something, it pisses them off. Understandable. As a cop, I am more than willing to be disliked or to have people mad at me as long as I am sure that I did the right thing. But not everything is black and white. And by necessity, cops must be able and equipped (mentally and physcially) to deal with all of the gray areas that require their attention.

Bottom line: are you willing to live in a society without police? I mean, look at the situation as it is. Would we be better off the way things are, or with no kind of law enforcement whatsoever?

As for changing the way things are done, you must remember that society has relied on some form of constabulatory presence for thousnads of years. Things ARE changing and adapting. But it will never be perfect. This is what people must learn to deal with.

 

[naaman]

AND how does the cop know he isn't telling the truth. Well he probably doesn't care and is always going to assume that the perp is lying right from the start. It makes the cops job easy that way.

I bet there are very few people including cops who have had to go so bad that they have had to piss in public.

Like I said, it's a judgement call that must be made in the moment. Are you trying to use this one cop to "prove" that all cops are bad? That's what it seems like. Either that or you're trying to say that because of this one (or, let's say "exceptional") circumstance, that cops should always be nice and "soft" so as not to potentially hurt someone. But you can't use an exception to define a rule. That's why they are exceptions! That's like trying to legalize murder because someone may have to kill in self defense.

As for having to go really bad, well, if it were me, and the guy were peeing in the street in the middle of downtown, yeah, I'd arrest him or cite him or whatever was the normal procedure. If he's pulled over on the side of a rural road where there is no restroom for 20 miles, then to give him a hard time for it would only make me jerk. Was this cop a jerk? Maybe so. Find a good lawyer and take him to court and let the jury decide. As for the legal system, that's an whole other bag of beans, one that the cops hate as much as the citizens!

 

[Ski_Banker]

You fail to recognize the difference in the "danger." Yes, a cable guy will climb up high or a crab fisherman may die in a storm. But the danger for police officers is one with CONSCIOUS opposition to the police officer. A telephone pole is not going to try and trick the phone guy. Crabs don't hide handguns in their crotch.

The point is that if an idividual chooses to do a dangerous job, it is that individual's responsibility to take the necessary means to ensure his own safety. The cable guy isn't going to run around on your roof without regard for weakspots or slippery spots that he might fall off of/through and hurt himself, but if he did, and then sued you for it, how would you feel? How would you react? Well, cops must act to ensure their own safety as well. If that means being rough so as to prevent the situation from escalating even further, so be it. If he gets in trouble for it, well, it'd be better than getting killed because he was not vigilant.

The difference is that police officers put their lives on the line to ensure that YOU get to live the kind of lifestyle you want without having to look over your shoulder every minute of everyday. A cop's job is to oppose people who are breaking the law AND to prevent laws from being borken. When a cop tells someone that they can't do something, it pisses them off. Understandable. As a cop, I am more than willing to be disliked or to have people mad at me as long as I am sure that I did the right thing. But not everything is black and white. And by necessity, cops must be able and equipped (mentally and physcially) to deal with all of the gray areas that require their attention.

Bottom line: are you willing to live in a society without police? I mean, look at the situation as it is. Would we be better off the way things are, or with no kind of law enforcement whatsoever?

As for changing the way things are done, you must remember that society has relied on some form of constaulatory presence for thousnads of years. Things ARE changing and adapting. But it will never be perfect. This is what people must learn to deal with.

Little friend. What is your point? You have about as much experience as a cop as I do as a Formula 1 driver.

I don't doubt that being 100% alert, with spiderman-like reflexes and a quick Tazer finger, while penetrating deep inside enemy territory at the local mall, makes you more safe.

I also think that your para-military like behavior has little bearing on the amount of actual crime committed, either way. It only impacts your personal safety.

But then, the fact that your gestapo like tactics result in many more (than say 20 years ago) innocent people getting harassed, should not come as a surprise. Further, the fact that much of the innocent, ordinary public looks at you with guarded disdain, should also not come as a surprise.

Put in simpleton cop terms - don't bitch and whine that everyone hates you because it's your own damn fault.

 

[KSXNSX]

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Background on the argument:

It is illegal/misconduct for a police officer to enter a private residence without permission and without a search warrant.

 

[steveny]

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Background on the argument:

It is illegal/misconduct for a police officer to enter a private residence without permission and without a search warrant.

And the cops whole attitude is because.......

 

[naaman]

Little friend. What is your point? You have about as much experience as a cop as I do as a Formula 1 driver.

I don't doubt that being 100% alert, with spiderman-like reflexes and a quick Tazer finger, while penetrating deep inside enemy territory at the local mall, makes you more safe.

I also think that your para-military like behavior has little bearing on the amount of actual crime committed, either way. It only impacts your personal safety.

But then, the fact that your gestapo like tactics result in many more (than say 20 years ago) innocent people getting harassed, should not come as a surprise. Further, the fact that much of the innocent, ordinary public looks at you with guarded disdain, should also not come as a surprise.

Put in simpleton cop terms - don't bitch and whine that everyone hates you because it's your own damn fault.

Nice. It sounds more like you're the one gettig all emotional, stooping so low as to call me gestapo and such. Try reading what I wrote and responding to that, rather than to how you feel about some jerk who made the news that shouldn't be a cop in the first place.

As for 20 years ago... did you ever stop to think about how much worse things are showing up on the news lately? As crime sinks to newer lows, it requires cops to be more and more weary. Remember 9/11? What do we do? Just continue to walk around with our heads up our butts? No. We take measures to protect ourselves from sneaky, crafty criminals. Are the necessary measures always "nice"? No. But someone has to stand between the innocent people and the menaces. That's what police are for.

 

[naaman]

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Background on the argument:

It is illegal/misconduct for a police officer to enter a private residence without permission and without a search warrant.

LOL!!!! Yeah. ALL cops are just like that guy!!!! Way to go! Let's get rid of all police agencies in America, cause then we'd all be better off.

 

[naaman]

\

I don't know if the cop was alone or not. What I do know is this...when the cop said to my friend, do you know that is a 250 dollar fine, my friend said back... if it's gonna cost me that much then just let me finish peeing. At that moment is when the cop went off. Not because my friend threatened his safty but because he said something the cop didn't want to hear. People say things all the time I don't want to hear but I can't twist their arm and jump on their back when they are no threat to me.

It's probably at this point that any cop who reads this will believe it was ok to twist someones arm who had recently had surgery and that in itself is very sad. All this in a country where ther is suppose to be freedom of speech.

I don't think this has anything to do with freedom of speech, first of all. But assuming that what you're posting is ALL the relevent information, then that cop is an a-hole and should be dealt with. Whether or not he gets dealt with, I have no control over. I mean, come on, really. If one guy in an NSX cuts me off, it doesn't mean that I'm going to accuse all NSX drivers of being bad drivers or jerks.

Like I said: always using the exception to argue a "rule" is not a valid tactic. You can bet there are going to be more bad cop stories than good ones, because bad stuff (i.e. exceptional, i.e. other than the norm) is what people like to talk about. We wake up every morning to a blue sky. You never hear on the news that the sky is blue, but if it were red one morning, it would be on every radio station, TV channel and newspaper in the world. If every cop was always couteous and pleasant, you would never hear any news about police officers. Because that what people expect. But as soon as one acts up, it's all over the news. Likewise, if cops were all bad, you wouldn't hear any news about them being bad, since thats what people would expect. The fact that it makes the news or that people report it shows that it's not the norm.

Anyway, for your reading pleasure:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/Valor.html

http://www.lapdonline.org/home/content_basic_view/33361
http://www.lapdonline.org/inside_the_lapd/content_basic_view/27314
http://www.lapdonline.org/search_results/content_basic_view/27313

 

[KSXNSX]

LOL!!!! Yeah. ALL cops are just like that guy!!!! Way to go! Let's get rid of all police agencies in America, cause then we'd all be better off.

Who said that? Just you...

 

[Synthesis]

I hope you realize that a cop on the beat has nowhere to go other than drive around. Whether he goes the speed limit or not, he's still getting paid until he clocks out at the station. There's no reason for a cop to be in a hurry other than that someting needs his/her immediate attention. Don't just assume that he's speeding just because he can. That's the wrong way to think of it. The law, by necessity, must allow certain individuals to break it in order to uphold it, otherwise, the criminals would run rampant. Therefore, it must be written into the law that police, when acting to intervene in their law enforcement capacity, may "break" certain laws as necessary. But also remember that if an officer does break the law for no good reason, he's still subject to the same penal system. Now, if it's a serious crime, you can bet he's going to get nailed. If it's something minor, I have no problem overlooking it in light of the service that the officer provides on a daily basis. I mean, seriously: if you called the cops because of a burglary in your neighborhood, would you want them to drive the speed limit to get there? And would you want them to have their lights/sirens blaring to alert the burglars to flee before they're caught? There are reasons to drive fast without your ligts and sirens.

Just because you see a cop zoom by you in without his ligts flashing doesn't mean he's up to no good.

i know, but i've seen plenty of instances where they do break the law, and should have been subject to the same penal (heh, penal) system. and those are the situations i'm talking about. and seeing as how you agree, i'll just stop here.

 

[Synthesis]

as for overlooking minor things.... then we shouldn't have the law to begin with. (usually) there is a reason a law exists. i choose to break certain laws, but i don't expect somebody to get me out of it if i get caught.

just knowing and enforcing even these "minor" things gives you LESS right to commit them. letting go of minor things for certain people and not others (cop or no cop) makes you a hypocrite.

you "serving" your community (or whatever you call it) was your choice. if you weren't a cop somebody else would be. and in many cases, based on what you've shat out of your fingers, they'd do a better job.

 

[Synthesis]

LOL!!!! Yeah. ALL cops are just like that guy!!!! Way to go! Let's get rid of all police agencies in America, cause then we'd all be better off.

no, they aren't all like that...... but you should know more than anybody else that there are way too many that ARE like that.

i know i've run into more than one like that. heh, what are the odds, right?

 

[Ski_Banker]

Nice. It sounds more like you're the one gettig all emotional, stooping so low as to call me gestapo and such. Try reading what I wrote and responding to that, rather than to how you feel about some jerk who made the news that shouldn't be a cop in the first place.

As for 20 years ago... did you ever stop to think about how much worse things are showing up on the news lately? As crime sinks to newer lows, it requires cops to be more and more weary. Remember 9/11? What do we do? Just continue to walk around with a heads up our butts? No. We take measures to protect ourselves from sneaky, crafty criminals. Are the necessary measures always "nice"? No. But someone has to stand between the innocent people and the menaces. That's what police are for.

Don't be sad that you don't garner the respect that you crave, that you thought being a cop would provide. At least you get a steady gov't paycheck, don't have to deal with customers, and get all the perks you dare request. Redneck chicks love it too.

 

[naaman]

Alright, I was thinking about this on the way home and there's this little problem I have communicating sometimes: It seems that what I'm trying to say gets lost in my assumption that people all think like I do... so let me back up for a minute and clarify a few things:

1) I believe there is a time and a place for roughness.

2) Until a suspect/perpetrator has pushed it that far, it is a peace officer's duty and responsibility to be courteous and respectful.

3) But when it becomes necessary to get physical, there is no room to be nice.

I believe that people deserve respect and dignity. And no-one, not even a cop has the right to treat people poorly. However, in the vast majority of situations where a cop is required to physically handle someone, it's because that person has violated someone else's rights already, or is threatening to or is about to etc.

And when it comes time to get physical, I won't pussyfoot around. The guy is going down hard, and he's going down fast, and if I bruise him in the process then oh well. He can go crying to his mommy or to Mike Wallace or whomever.

Ski Banker, obviously you feel strongly that cops are "bad." Sorry you haven't had any good experiences. I don't know why you insist on belittling me and what I'm trying to do (not because I want "respect." I want to serve. I couldn't care less whether a person respects me, because that's on them. I am the person I choose to be regardless of how you or anyone feels about me).

As for anyone who has had a bad time with cops, remember, they are human, too, and they have buttons that can be pushed just like you do. You want the cop to respect you? Try respecting the cop first (after all, isn't this what you expect? Don't act upon preconceived notions that he's just trying to harrass you, but come at him man to man... human to human. I bet you'll be surprised how far a little politeness can go in swaying a cop's feeings, and if he's still a jerk, then that's a deficiency in his own character that he needs to deal with and he should be disciplined).

 

[naaman]

as for overlooking minor things.... then we shouldn't have the law to begin with. (usually) there is a reason a law exists. i choose to break certain laws, but i don't expect somebody to get me out of it if i get caught.

just knowing and enforcing even these "minor" things gives you LESS right to commit them. letting go of minor things for certain people and not others (cop or no cop) makes you a hypocrite.

you "serving" your community (or whatever you call it) was your choice. if you weren't a cop somebody else would be. and in many cases, based on what you've shat out of your fingers, they'd do a better job.

What I meant was that somethings are just not worth pursuing. I agree that the people who enforce should be beyond reproach. The problem comes along when we condemn every little thing: we would have NO police officers because they'd all be unqualified for having had a parking ticket here or a littering offense there. When I say "minor" stuff, I'm talking about the kind of stuff that the cops themselves find it a neusence to enforce such as exiting the carpool lane over the yellow lines or not making a complete stop at a stop sign with no other vehicles/pedestrians at the intersection etc...

 

[naaman]

no, they aren't all like that...... but you should know more than anybody else that there are way too many that ARE like that.

i know i've run into more than one like that. heh, what are the odds, right?

I've run into some prick cops, too. Which is exactly why I chose to persue law enforcement: because I believed I could do a better job and that there needed to be more people on the force that actually cared about the people they were paid to protect. I joined up so that I could help. If it's necessary to dig my knee in some guy's back to make sure that you and your kids are safe at night, so be it If he's guilty, or uncoopertative, then he has to expect that it's going to be unpleasant. I'll take the risk of getting shot, stabbed, hurt so that you don't have to. I signed up for it and I expect nothing from anyone in return.

Ski Banker seems to think that all cops are on a power trip. Don't know if I can convince him otherwise, but I guess that's not really for me to worry about.

Anyway, I joined up because I don't believe in complaining about something that I'm not willing to take action to fix. If you want some history on the decision I made, read this (this was the straw that broke the camel's back):
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30861

 

[BladesNSX]

I have been a police officer here in Miami for 8 years.

I'm disgusted by the responses made by those such as Ski_Banker, steveny, and synthesis. Your trivial experiences are not worthy of judgement over an entire profession for which you have NO clue.

I am a black male officer, who on more than several occassions, have been pulled over and treated like crap from other "good-old boy" officers and Cocky Macho Latin officers, both when, and before I became a cop; but guess what? I know for a FACT that there are MANY damned good men and women behind the badge. MANY!!!

No Ski_banker and Steveny, I have never hurt anyone more than I needed to. I work out regularly and keep myself in shape so I can keep control over someone without having to resort to using my taser or manhanlding them in a manner that will injure them or cause them extreme pain. I happen to know what pain feels like. I know what it feels like to be hit with a taser, to be slammed on the ground, etc. But, not all cops are as strong and built as I am. I don't blame them for dropping a knee on a guy that is resisting them if need be. But, then again, you don't have to worry about being bitten by a guy with HIV or T.B. or god knows what else. You don't have to arrest someone who deficated himself just to make your day that much more fun.

Don't insult me by comparing our profession to electrical workers or crab fishermen. If you hear about an electrical worker that died on the job or a crab fisherman that's lost at sea, your heart will go out to them. If you hear about me getting runned over by a car while directing traffic, you will likely laugh or think, "serves him right".

No Steveny, I've gone a full shift and MORE, so busy, that I can't even take a piss, I can't eat, I can't sit down. After the hurricanes hit us in '05, I spent long hours standing in the wind, rain, and lightening, directing traffic and being yelled at by people like you, because I had to shut down a road for a downed power line or tree. Because you jerks couldn't use common sense to find an alternate route.

I don't blame the cop in the ridiculous video above for cursing off that kid. I wouldn't curse off that kid myself because it would mean an automatic complaint for me. Still, the sentiment would have been there in my mind. If you paid attention to the video, the cop was responding to a disturbance call at that party. Someone opened the door and then slammed it in the cops face. The disturbance call alone gives probable cause to allow the officer to go inside the house. I have no doubt that drinking was going on in that party and those kids were likely underaged. That means the owner of the home was in violation of a crime! If you have P.C. to believe a crime is being committed you DON'T NEED A SEARCH WARRANT KSXNSX!!!

In an episode of 20/20, reporters conducted a test, http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132229&page=1, to study police honesty and integrity in LAPD and NYPD. For the most part, the officers did quite well. A complete contradiction to public opinion before the test was done. In fact, though you will not see it on 20/20's site, the reporters were unhappy with the results. They WANTED to catch a crooked cop!! The public doesn't want to see reports on GOOD HONEST COPS, that doesn't get the ratings, that's not what people want to see. The media would much prefer showing a cop beating up on a defenseless guy, because that's what people WANT to see. They don't want to see the cop that found that lost little girl. They don't want to hear about the cop that went into the burning building to save someone. They don't care about the cop that died in the line of duty responding to a domestic violence call.

Listen to Ski_banker and steveny, they don't really give a damn about that dead cop. They don't care that he or she left a family behind. Why? Because he or she CHOOSE that line of work, they choose law enforcement so they, what? Deserved to be killed? I suppose they don't care about the soldier's dying over seas either. Afterall, they choose to be soldiers.

Now you'll see, Ski_banker and steveny may well respond and say that they DO care about the soldiers and the reason why is simple. A soldier didn't hurt their friend, or pull them over and give them a ticket.

People like steveny and Ski_banker have come accross at least ONE cop in their lifetime that was helpful to them in some way. They simply disregard those times and think only of the bad incidents that have occured.

Naaman, I was proud of the way you tried to defend us. Very proud. If you were an officer or you still are, I would be honored to serve with you.:biggrin:

Oh, btw.....CHALLENGE me too. I have served with integrity and distinction for eight years, in a profession, NONE of you could handle. I've gotten numerous complaints because I DARE to tell someone what to do. I may be 30 years old, but I look like I'm in my mid to early twenties, and I have no doubt that jerks in Miami, don't like a young black kid in uniform telling them what to do. So they file complaints saying I was rude, despite recordings, witnesses, and fellow officers truthfully testifying on my behalf that I spoke NO profanity, I was completely respectful, and even said 'please' and 'sir'.

The fact is, the public can be as much if not greater a**holes that the media likes to portray the police as being. Hate begets hate, and it takes a bigger man like myself to ignore the hateful comments. JUST LOOK AT THE WAY SKI_BANKER INSULTS AND BELITTLES NAAMAN AS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. I'm on bike patrol and some guy drives by and calls me "faggot". Why? What can I do on bike patrol, but pedal my butt around in the hot sun and rain to answer calls. I don't give out tickets, I'm not arresting anyone. But I'm the target of anymosity simply because it says 'police' on my shirt. I am given hateful stares when I walk into a restuarant or a business. Why? because a fellow officer years ago gave you a bad day?

Ski_banker says I am whining and complaining. I suppose because one out of 100 officers did something bad, the other 99 MUST suffer right? What idiotic childing thinking is this!! I suppose if a black guy rapes your wife Ski_banker, then every black person you come across deserves your hate and vengeance?? We are all stinking rapists??

Guess what, as with anything, there are good and bad. I've been beaten up by white AND latin kids, and have dealt with extreme racism all my life since I came to this country as a child, again from white and latin people. So thus, I should hate white and latin people??

The bottom line is, the only way I can gain the respect from people like Steveny, Ski_banker, KoolAid, etc. is if I saved their life at the cost of mine in the line of duty. Oh and I would have to die a horrible slow death, or perhaps be turned into a vegetable. Maybe my brain-dead body lying in a hospital bed will serve better as a constant reminder to them, my sacrifice. Afterall, if I die, they will think better of cops after I save their lives, That is........until they get pulled over and harassed or treated without respect, or they see some jerk cop doing something stupid on the news.

Naaman, you have to see their comments for what they are. As a Black man I can see bigotry for what it is. This is not unlike racism of an entire race. It's not unlike a white kid who is taught that all Black people are bad. After a few run ins with some black kids who treat them with some malice, they quickly adopt the bigoted beliefs of others and spread that belief themselves.

They could care less about the black teacher that tried to help them, the black kids that actually treated them with respect, no they will continue to think how they want regardless of anything else to the contrary. The media doesn't help with this belief either. I have no doubt that 50 years ago, the media would show things to strengthen the belief that black people were an inferior race, a dirty race of violent killers and rapists, etc. The people then no doubt picked up on that. The cycle of bigotry continues. Hell, even in the Tom & Jerry cartoons, you can see tell-tale signs of racist attributes that have been rightfully deleted today.

Though you may defend the honor of this profession, your words, likely fall upon deaf ears. Penetrating bigoted beliefs are for the most part, an act of futility. Nonetheless, I commend you for trying.

 

[KSXNSX]

I don't blame the cop in the ridiculous video above for cursing off that kid. I wouldn't curse off that kid myself because it would mean an automatic complaint for me. Still, the sentiment would have been there in my mind. If you paid attention to the video, the cop was responding to a disturbance call at that party. Someone opened the door and then slammed it in the cops face. The disturbance call alone gives probable cause to allow the officer to go inside the house. I have no doubt that drinking was going on in that party and those kids were likely underaged. That means the owner of the home was in violation of a crime! If you have P.C. to believe a crime is being committed you DON'T NEED A SEARCH WARRANT KSXNSX!!!

You are making a lot of assumptions. And a disturbance call is not probable cause to search a house. What is your probable cause? That neighbors complained that it was too loud? Loudness=underaged drinking? Please don't try that in the field because you will get fired. I can't respond to a call that a neighbor is being rowdy and assume the kids in there are underage and drinking when I haven't seen anything. If I saw someone outside the house who looked ten and was shooting up heroine, that may be probable cause to investigate inside the house. If I heard gunshots and saw a trail of blood leading into a house, that is probable cause. Why do you think investigators have to get search warrants in the first place? If it was that easy, no one would go to a judge for a warrant.

I don't have anything against cops at all. So long as they obey the law along with the rest of us.

And cursing at the kid was uncalled for. He just lost his cool because he knew he really didn't have anything against him. He could have easily asked for everyone's IDs and given citations to those who were underaged. Guess why he didn't? Because he knew he should not have been in there in the first place. I love how he says he was conducting an "investigation". Haha.

I thank honest law-abiding cops for their service.

 

[BladesNSX]

You are making a lot of assumptions. And a disturbance call is not probable cause to search a house. What is your probably cause? That neighbors complained that it was too loud? Loudness=underaged drinking? Please don't try that in the field because you will get fired. I can't respond to a call that a neighbor is being rowdy and assume the kids in there are underage and drinking when I haven't seen anything. If I saw someone outside the house who looked ten and was shooting up heroine, that may be probable cause to investigate inside the house. If I heard gunshots and saw a trail of blood leading into a house, that is probable cause. Why do you think investigators have to get search warrants in the first place? If it was that easy, no one would go to a judge for a warrant.

I don't have anything against cops at all. So long as they obey the law along with the rest of us.

And cursing at the kid was uncalled for. He just lost his cool because he knew he really didn't have anything against him. He could have easily asked for everyone's IDs and given citations to those who were underaged. Guess why he didn't? Because he knew he should not have been in there in the first place. I love how he says he was conducting an "investigation". Haha.

I thank honest law-abiding cops for their service.

First, did you make that video??. Also, I made no assumptions. He said in the video that he didn't appreciate having the door being slammed in his face. Let me fill you in since you are yet another person that thinks they can tell me how my job is done (unless you are a cop...are you?).

I get a loud party/disturbance call. I go to the house and I can hear the music is loud and there is evidence that a party is going on. They don't open the door for me when I ring the door bell. I contact my sgt. and advise as much. I leave the scene, only to have another disturbance call later. I return to find the music is still loud and there is clearly a party continuing.

It may or may not be after the ordinance violation time for having a loud party. It doesn't matter, because the ordinance just means I can fine the homeowner a civil complaint. However, if I ring the doorbell again and someone opens the door and then slams it in my face, I WILL go inside the house. My sgt. WILL tell me to shut that party down and find the homeowner.

If I glimpse in the home and see kids drinking, what might POSSIBLY be alcohol that is PLENTY of probable cause for me to enter the home. Slamming the door in my face impedes my investigation. If they never opened the door in the first place, YES...then I could not go inside the house so long as the house is SECURE. I will simply leave a civil citation and leave. If the party continues and we keep getting more complaints, I'll just leave larger civil citation amounts.

Here are the facts in your video, there were teenagers in the home. Thus, there is a probability that some or all are underaged and drinking. There was no evidence of forced entry on the door of the video, therefore the front door was unsecured. The kids opened the door and then slammed it in the officer's face, leaving suspicion that something possibly awry was going on.

IOW, if I walk up to a guy because someone called and said he was doing SOMETHING he wasn't supposed to, even though I didn't witness whatever he supposedly did, if he suddenly turns and starts running from me when I approach him, I WILL chase him down and place him in cuffs. His running gave me P.C. to believe he committed an offense. His running is impending an investigation. If he tells me he suddenly decided to run and I had no right to take him down, that won't fly in court.

I never condoned the officer cursing at the kid. However, I completely understand why he did it. I especially deal with kids, usually kids of wealthy white people, who talk down to me as though I'm their servant, as though they are better than me.

That officer didn't cite anyone because he didn't want to be a complete jerk. He even told a couple of the kids that they could leave. He only asked for the I.D. of the moron with the camera playing Geraldo, and of the those who are the homeowners. The other things the kid claimed he didn't get on tape, I can't comment on, since the kid cannot prove it and didn't get it on tape. Also, that was not the kids, home. I'm not certain as this is more a civil issue, but I believe that kid should not have been recording that incident.

Now, if the cop REALLY wanted to be a jerk. He could have checked the I.D. of everyone, cited those who were drinking underaged, fined the homeowner, and even arrest the homeowner for contributing to a minor. WHY didn't the officer do it? Becuase he wasn't as BIG a jerk as you, Ski_banker, and steveny would make him out to be. It had NOTHING to do with him being in the wrong.

The ONLY mistake that officer made was allowing that obnoxious kid to get under his skin and curse the kid off. I can recall many instances where an officer lost it and blew up on someone because they kept pushing and pushing. I've spit profanity out a few times when my blood is pumping and adrenalin kicks in. Though, I admit when I'm in uniform I have far more self control than out of uniform, mainly because I have to be perfect and better than the general public. I know everyone expects that from me, and I expect it from myself. It is not an easy thing to do, to be 'perfect'.

 

[KSXNSX]

First, did you make that video??. Also, I made no assumptions. He said in the video that he didn't appreciate having the door being slammed in his face. Let me fill you in since you are yet another person that thinks they can tell me how my job is done (unless you are a cop...are you?).

I get a loud party/disturbance call. I go to the house and I can hear the music is loud and there is evidence that a party is going on. They don't open the door for me when I ring the door bell. I contact my sgt. and advise as much. I leave the scene, only to have another disturbance call later. I return to find the music is still loud and there is clearly a party continuing.

It may or may not be after the ordinance violation time for having a loud party. It doesn't matter, because the ordinance just means I can fine the homeowner a civil complaint. However, if I ring the doorbell again and someone opens the door and then slams it in my face, I WILL go inside the house. My sgt. WILL tell me to shut that party down and find the homeowner.

If I glimpse in the home and see kids drinking, what might POSSIBLY be alcohol that is PLENTY of probable cause for me to enter the home. Slamming the door in my face impedes my investigation. If they never opened the door in the first place, YES...then I could not go inside the house so long as the house is SECURE. I will simply leave a civil citation and leave. If the party continues and we keep getting more complaints, I'll just leave larger civil citation amounts.

Here are the facts in your video, there were teenagers in the home. Thus, there is a probability that some or all are underaged and drinking. There was no evidence of forced entry on the door of the video, therefore the front door was unsecured. The kids opened the door and then slammed it in the officer's face, leaving suspicion that something possibly awry was going on.

IOW, if I walk up to a guy because someone called and said he was doing SOMETHING he wasn't supposed to, even though I didn't witness whatever he supposedly did, if he suddenly turns and starts running from me when I approach him, I WILL chase him down and place him in cuffs. His running gave me P.C. to believe he committed an offense. His running is impending an investigation. If he tells me he suddenly decided to run and I had no right to take him down, that won't fly in court.

I never condoned the officer cursing at the kid. However, I completely understand why he did it. I especially deal with kids, usually kids of wealthy white people, who talk down to me as though I'm their servant, as though they are better than me.

That officer didn't cite anyone because he didn't want to be a complete jerk. He even told a couple of the kids that they could leave. He only asked for the I.D. of the moron with the camera playing Geraldo, and of the those who are the homeowners. The other things the kid claimed he didn't get on tape, I can't comment on, since the kid cannot prove it and didn't get it on tape. Also, that was not the kids, home. I'm not certain as this is more a civil issue, but I believe that kid should not have been recording that incident.

Now, if the cop REALLY wanted to be a jerk. He could have checked the I.D. of everyone, cited those who were drinking underaged, fined the homeowner, and even arrest the homeowner for contributing to a minor. WHY didn't the officer do it? Becuase he wasn't as BIG a jerk as you, Ski_banker, and steveny would make him out to be. It had NOTHING to do with him being in the wrong.

The ONLY mistake that officer made was allowing that obnoxious kid to get under his skin and curse the kid off. I can recall many instances where an officer lost it and blew up on someone because they kept pushing and pushing. I've spit profanity out a few times when my blood is pumping and adrenalin kicks in. Though, I admit when I'm in uniform I have far more self control than out of uniform, mainly because I have to be perfect and better than the general public. I know everyone expects that from me, and I expect it from myself. It is not an easy thing to do, to be 'perfect'.

You seem upset. Tell us how you really feel.

 

[KSXNSX]

You are making a lot of assumptions. And a disturbance call is not probable cause to search a house. What is your probable cause? That neighbors complained that it was too loud? Loudness=underaged drinking? Please don't try that in the field because you will get fired. I can't respond to a call that a neighbor is being rowdy and assume the kids in there are underage and drinking when I haven't seen anything. If I saw someone outside the house who looked ten and was shooting up heroine, that may be probable cause to investigate inside the house. If I heard gunshots and saw a trail of blood leading into a house, that is probable cause. Why do you think investigators have to get search warrants in the first place? If it was that easy, no one would go to a judge for a warrant.

I don't have anything against cops at all. So long as they obey the law along with the rest of us.

And cursing at the kid was uncalled for. He just lost his cool because he knew he really didn't have anything against him. He could have easily asked for everyone's IDs and given citations to those who were underaged. Guess why he didn't? Because he knew he should not have been in there in the first place. I love how he says he was conducting an "investigation". Haha.

I thank honest law-abiding cops for their service.

__________________________________________________

 

[Ski_Banker]

Ski Banker seems to think that all cops are on a power trip. Don't know if I can convince him otherwise, but I guess that's not really for me to worry about.

Naaman - yes, this is generally a good characterization of my thoughts. Not all, but very very many. This whole debate rests in shades of gray - I agree with almost all of your points, its just the "extent" to which things play out. You, in general, have posted "100% safety, 100% of the time" which I'm completely in support of when you're patroling the 'hood. But not the mall. Anyway, if you maintain your INTEGRITY throughout your law enforcement career - more power to you, and I would commend you for doing the right thing. INTEGRITY includes telling the truth if deposed in a case in which one of your cop buddies is accused of wrong doing.

Blades - I don't know where to start man. Maybe watching Miami Beach cops get paid off by tow truck drivers to lynch peoples cars. Or having friends spend weekends in Dade County because Miami Beach cops decided they were "resisting arrest, nonviolent" (ie, doing nothing wrong, but didn't want to be arrested for doing nothing wrong). Yeah... thank god I'm getting out of that corrupt hell hole. You of all people should at least recognize it.

One last thing: Even though [some/many/most] cops think that the white collar guys are all doing something illegal to make their money -- they aren't. I have yet to see a single instance of genuine illegal white collar crime in my business career. So, Blades, pass that on to your MB brethren when they start grumbling about all the cash in south beach, made illegally, and therefore who cares if we cops bend some rules on the side. You're a liar if you tell me some guys you work with don't think like that.