Our schools teaching our kids - it's better to lie, honesty doesn't pay

[NsXMas]

I can't believe the pure stupidity of the school and teachers here:

Student's honesty about knife met with 5-day suspension

It doesn't pay to be honest, the parent said of a Phoenix middle school student who was suspended for bringing a pocketknife to school.

Robert Stowell, a Mountain Sky Junior High School parent, said his 14-year-old son, Nathan, was suspended Tuesday because it was he who first told his teacher that he had a knife after he realized it was in his backpack. The parent in the Washington Elementary School District believes the consequences, a five-day suspension, sends the wrong message.

"The only message that the suspension sends is that Nathan should never have come forth, hidden the knife in his bag, and taken it home so that no one would ever know what he had done," Stowell said. "I'm involved in a quest for what's right."





Washington Elementary district officials stood by the school's decision because the district has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to weapons at schools. District officials pointed to the 2007-2008 student parent handbook, which outlines student discipline policy.

Weapons possession, also a violation of local, state and federal law, carries a one- to five-day out-of-school suspension. The handbook is sent home with every student at the beginning of the year, said Carol Donaldson, a Washington Elementary spokesperson.

Parents sign the statement that they have received and read the handbook and return it to the school, Donaldson said. Nathan's parents signed the handbook.

Stowell said he met with the Mountain Sky's assistant principal Thursday with the hope that the decision would be overturned and he would receive an apology. The school would not budge, he said. The school is at 16225 N. Seventh Ave.

more at link...

Bottom line is, this kid learned it's much better to shut up about making mistakes, than admit the truth.

A future class of Enron CEOs are being made right here in our public school system folks!!!

Life isn't fair, so don't be honest and get caught. He/she who gets away with lying and distorting the truth wins!!!

America's future, I fear for thee...

 

[davidf]

The kid still did the right thing even if consequences or BS. I'd be proud of my son for that.

 

[NsXMas]

I don't know, some would be upset that their kid was so dumb to come forward. Now the next kid who makes a mistake knows what not to do.

 

[nsxotic911]

When I was in 6th grade... (about..can't remember, 17 years ago) I brought whole tomatos, cucumbers, meat and sandwitch + a butter knive to cut it..
I didn't know any better. I love making my own sandwitches and don't like to have it sit for 6 hours oozing with tomato juice..

Anyway, some stupid girl decided to taddle tale to the teacher, who calls the principal who asks me to come to the office. I explained what I was doing and he was real nice and serious but said never to do it again.

How times have changed... public schools are just so poor institutions these days.

 

[NsXMas]

When I was in 6th grade... (about..can't remember, 17 years ago) I brought whole tomatos, cucumbers, meat and sandwitch + a butter knive to cut it..
I didn't know any better. I love making my own sandwitches and don't like to have it sit for 6 hours oozing with tomato juice..

Anyway, some stupid girl decided to taddle tale to the teacher, who calls the principal who asks me to come to the office. I explained what I was doing and he was real nice and serious but said never to do it again.

How times have changed... public schools are just so poor institutions these days.

Yea, you should have been suspended or expelled according to the rules these days.

Wonderful progress we've made in common sense, haven't we?

 

[gdae]

I carried a pocket knife with a 4-inch blade my whole high school career and neither I nor anyone else thought twice about it.
(That's early '80's in the country for ya).
Only person I ever cut was myself.:redface:

 

[queenlives]

Yea, you should have been suspended or expelled according to the rules these days.

Wonderful progress we've made in common sense, haven't we?

i'm betting most parents would be all over the school administration that let students carry knives to school were one of those students to injure / kill another.

for better or worse, times have changed. it's a shame society has gotten to the point it has regarding situations like this.

 

[Mike-san]

I'll get flammed, but here goes....
First off, the kid "realized" it was in his backback. Do kids carry their backpacks around all day and on weekends ? No...they usually use them just for school. I'm assuming the kid knowingly put the knife in his backpack. I guess the possibility exists that he used his backpack for a camping trip, and then when he unloaded his camping supplies, he neglected to remove the knife, but whatever...He could have showed a classmate the knife, and then later, thinking he might get ratted out, might have decided to admit he had the weapon. What if someone got into his backpack and stole the knife and used it on another student ? Would the parents of little Johnny get sued ? No, but the school district probably would under some guise like "not providing a safe educational enviornment" or "failure to protect the students". You must realize that our lawsuit happy society has left our public agencies little choice but to regulate the crap out of everything. A kid brings a weapon to school : Black and White. A kid brings a weapon to school, but admits he did : Grey. School weapons rules don't have the time or resources to be "grey". Let's say the kid got off w/ just a warning....Great, but you can bet this would open up a whole new can of worms in future, similar cases. If you are speeding, and then later you go up to a cop and tell him you were speeding, and you receive a ticket, are all cops stupid and society is doomed and all that ? The kid did something very wrong that could have led to a fellow classmate (your kids) getting hurt if the knife had fallen into the wrong hands. I bet the kid is probably not a troublemaker, just a normal boy, but I wanted to present another side to this slamfest.

 

[matteni]

In the late 70's I was in grade school and was board in class so I pulled out my spring loaded Swiss army knife and was playing with it on my desk during class.

I gave myself 2 good cuts before I had to tell the teacher what happened.

She sent me to the nurse for band aids and I was asked not to bring it back again.

Today Swat would have been called in and my parents would be on Larry King Live!

My parents talk about the high school rifle team that they had and how kids would walk down the halls all the time with a rifle!

Boy am I old and things have changed (mostly for the better).

I agree that sometimes you do the right thing are you take your medicine like a man. The kid will be just fine and the adults didn't do anything wrong either. Just an unfortunate real life situation based on the current reality. Can't win em all and the character building is worth a lot.

 

[DocL]

Unfortunately sometimes being truthful doesn't always get you a "get out of jail" card. I used to keep a Swiss Army knife in my backpack and when I was bored I'd carve stuff into the desk. Furthermore, my school had a rifle range and you could choose shooting as a gym class. We also had archery and I remember trying to shoot at birds flying but I was never able to hit one. All of this was in a public school but times have definitely changed. .

 

[MCM]

Not sure what went wrong?
30 yrs ago it was not a crime in school.
10,000 years prior to that, it was not a crime either.
So its not de-evolution, or is it?

 

[ANYTIME]

Washington Elementary district officials stood by the school's decision because the district has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to weapons at schools.

A knife is a knife

Oops, I left my gun/knife/weapon in my backpack.......isn't honesty the best policy?

 

[Zuerst]

I'm gonna bring knives to school and plant them in people's packs and rat them out... :biggrin:

 

[Red]

I used to get away with all sorts of shit in school - I still get away with stuff now - its attitude, demeanor and reputation that generally gets you out of trouble when you're in it.

My guess, that kid wasn't a saint and we don't know the whole story, but they must have been looking to make an example out of him.

 

[SilverStone05]

Well the thing is, they'll make anyone a teacher these days. I remember in my undergrad when B-school students were crunching numbers and evaluating the state of the economy, education majors were finger painting and making poster boards.

Not that I discount teachers...but they seriously need a harder curriculum. I remember I used to constantly correct my 3rd grade teacher's spelling.

 

[Red]

Well the thing is, they'll make anyone a teacher these days. I remember in my undergrad when B-school students were crunching numbers and evaluating the state of the economy, education majors were finger painting and making poster boards.

Not that I discount teachers...but they seriously need a harder curriculum. I remember I used to constantly correct my 3rd grade teacher's spelling.

The problem is that teachers in the USA need to get better pay - quality of teachers is directly proportional to how many people WANT to become teachers - competition

My understanding is that pay for public school teachers in most states is CRAP!

 

[Mike-san]

Well the thing is, they'll make anyone a teacher these days. I remember in my undergrad when B-school students were crunching numbers and evaluating the state of the economy, education majors were finger painting and making poster boards.

Not that I discount teachers...but they seriously need a harder curriculum. I remember I used to constantly correct my 3rd grade teacher's spelling.

If your post is in relation to this thread, and you are drawing broad conclusions based on your interpretations of the knife incident, it should be known that all the teacher did was to report the knife to the school administration. The decisions that followed were made by the principal. FYI, in secondary education (junior high and high school) teaching canidates must first get a bachelors degree in the subject they are going to teach, then after that degree is obtained, the canidates enter a teacher training program. Perhaps your post should be modified to read "They'll give a bachelors degree to anyone these days !"

 

[Mike-san]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080401/ap_on_re_us/children_s_plot

 

[MCM]

Red, you really have turned "RED"?

 

[Red]

Red, you really have turned "RED"?

HUH?

 

[quack]

The kid should have gotten a reduced sentence like detention or something less detrimental to his education,if it was a true; oops "my dad used my bag for his tools" but, i read the rest of the article

The parent said Nathan carries the pocketknife off campus but forgot to remove it out from his backpack after spring break

why does he carry this thing around with him, bear protection? gotta blame the parents on this one...unless it is for bear protection.

Virginia schools had mandatory suspension for carrying cell phones or pagers to school many years ago. (it was during the big you-must-be-a-drug-dealer years) I had an IT job in high school and left it in my bag once. I didn't tell anyone, but was scared all day!

My understanding is that pay for public school teachers in most states is CRAP!

I watched a special on DC schools. they want to get rid of bad teachers (approx 50%) but they can't. They entertained giving 25k early retirement bonuses and then 90% of the bad teachers said they would take it if offered to leave. a low 25K to force retirement?? I wonder if they would take a cheeseburger.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Our schools also teached us as a kid and our children that we came from "monkeys" yet there is no significant evidence or a missing link to justify teaching such blasphamy very disheartening.

 

[Red]

Our schools also teached us as a kid and our children that we came from "monkeys" yet there is no significant evidence or a missing link to justify teaching such blasphamy very disheartening.

I believe, when last I checked, there is no question that Homo Sapiens are descended from, Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus etc. Genetic analysis clarifies this as technology and understanding improves.

If you want to classify us, we ARE a type of monkey - we're certainly not fish or birds and I'm pretty sure, with some exceptions, we are not rodents or feline.

I think people (only in America?) who have issues with Evolution (which, world wide scientists consider to be fact) should examine ways of aligning their beliefs with the obvious truths of the physical world.

OK, you believe in "Creation" I respect that, but did you consider that Adam and Eve may not have been Homo Sapiens? Perhaps they were Homo Erectus? The bible is certainly silent on the point, why can't your beliefs and scientific fact be in harmony?

God could have created us in one state and we could have evolved from there, no?

There's no question we've developed enormously from the time of the bible (not more than 6000 years) why couldn't there be more to it?

 

[NSXFRIEND]

I believe, when last I checked, there is no question that Homo Sapiens are descended from, Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus etc. Genetic analysis clarifies this as technology and understanding improves.

If you want to classify us, we ARE a type of monkey - we're certainly not fish or birds and I'm pretty sure, with some exceptions, we are not rodents or feline.

I think people (only in America?) who have issues with Evolution (which, world wide scientists consider to be fact) should examine ways of aligning their beliefs with the obvious truths of the physical world.

OK, you believe in "Creation" I respect that, but did you consider that Adam and Eve may not have been Homo Sapiens? Perhaps they were Homo Erectus? The bible is certainly silent on the point, why can't your beliefs and scientific fact be in harmony?

God could have created us in one state and we could have evolved from there, no?

There's no question we've developed enormously from the time of the bible (not more than 6000 years) why couldn't there be more to it?

I respect your beliefs but the theory of evolution is not based facts but conjecture. The monkey skull which was planted by british scientist was a hoax a sham a fable he admitted this many years back yet we still like to think of ourselfs as self sufficient because we are the ability to reason, yet we still can't explain why we have feelings and guilt. I don't consider myself any religion persay, but I have read in the islamic faith that all life form comes from water. So according to this there is no refutation in life versus creation. Even Adam was considered to have been created from "sounding clay" two properties which is water and dirt.

We could take this arguement even further "who was the originator of creation"?

 

[Zennsx]

The problem is that teachers in the USA need to get better pay - quality of teachers is directly proportional to how many people WANT to become teachers - competition

My understanding is that pay for public school teachers in most states is CRAP!

HMM ,your understanding is seriously flawed.