Price of Prosche 911

[Ultraman]

What are the reasons the 993s are asking much more than 996s (besides the air-cooled vs. liquid-cooled)?

Is air-cooled better in any way?

Will 996s follow the similar price increase like the 993s?

Sorry I misspelled Porsche but I couldn't edit the subject line.

 

[sahtt]

I prefer the 993 over the 996 but not necessarily over the 997. The 993 was the final iteration of a car that had been slowly crafted and perfected over several generations. The 996 was a totally different approch to the 911. Its looks were awkward to most porsche fans and its mechanical integrity and overall quality vs the 993 questioned, to some extent justly so. The 997 corrected many of these issues and is probably the best 911 to date.

The 993 is a very special car; you'd have to drive one to understand. Driving a mid 90's turbo is an experience you cannot duplicate in almost any modern car. I will own a 993 sooner than later but I probably will not able to afford a turbo like I want.

I can assue you 996 prices will not follow the same path as the 993's.

 

[whiteNSXs]

What are the reasons the 993s are asking much more than 996s (besides the air-cooled vs. liquid-cooled)?

Is air-cooled better in any way?

Will 996s follow the similar price increase like the 993s?

Sorry I misspelled Porsche but I couldn't edit the subject line.

993 is the last evolution of the original 901/911 chassis and it had the air cooled engine. The 996 will never hold its value like the 993 since 996 were made in vast number and it looks quite ugly with the non-round headlights and body without flares. The 997 is essentially a 996 but with new interior, updated engine and most importantly the classic 901 traits including the round headlights and flares. There is nothing special about the 993's way of driving since it still has its 1960's root. There is only so much you can do with such ancient body design. The 996 is a much better car in terms of ergonomics, driving feels, performance and handling than the 993. However, the 996 suffers from reliability issues and its look is undesirable to say the least. The 997 is better than the 996 naturally in every aspect and is much more well received by the old Porsche crowd.
The air-cooled engine is not better in performance but it had become quite bullet-proof since there is no water in the engine hence maintenance of it is quite simple. However, with the limitation of air-cooling, the highest horsepower for a realistic street car was limited to around 400 horses.
So to retain the title of the quickest car in the world, the 911 Turbo required the switch to a water-cooled layout hence the new generation of 911, the 996.
Steve

 

[Ultraman]

Thanks for the valuable inputs from the above posts.

How about 996 TT? I know it's built from a different engine and heard it's much more reliable then the NA 996s. Will 996 TT hold it's value down the road similar to the 993s?

 

[whiteNSXs]

Thanks for the valuable inputs from the above posts.

How about 996 TT? I know it's built from a different engine and heard it's much more reliable then the NA 996s. Will 996 TT hold it's value down the road similar to the 993s?

996 TT is a tremendous car with absolutely crazy acceleration and capabilities. Because of the fact that it is a 996, its resale value has been quite low and has been one of the best bargain supercars out there. It does have a different and more reliable engine than the usual 996. It is hard to say how it will compared with the plain 993 but definitely the resale value is much lower than the 993 Turbo. Nonetheless, it is a very, very nice car to have.
Steve

 

[bfrank1972]

993 is the last evolution of the original 901/911 chassis and it had the air cooled engine. The 996 will never hold its value like the 993 since 996 were made in vast number and it looks quite ugly with the non-round headlights and body without flares. The 997 is essentially a 996 but with new interior, updated engine and most importantly the classic 901 traits including the round headlights and flares. There is nothing special about the 993's way of driving since it still has its 1960's root. There is only so much you can do with such ancient body design. The 996 is a much better car in terms of ergonomics, driving feels, performance and handling than the 993. However, the 996 suffers from reliability issues and its look is undesirable to say the least. The 997 is better than the 996 naturally in every aspect and is much more well received by the old Porsche crowd.
The air-cooled engine is not better in performance but it had become quite bullet-proof since there is no water in the engine hence maintenance of it is quite simple. However, with the limitation of air-cooling, the highest horsepower for a realistic street car was limited to around 400 horses.
So to retain the title of the quickest car in the world, the 911 Turbo required the switch to a water-cooled layout hence the new generation of 911, the 996.
Steve

Mmmm dunno about that 400hp limit thing due to air cooling. There were plenty of modified 964 and 993 turbo 3.6's out there making 600+ rwhp. Eddie Bello's famous 964 made somewhere around 1200 rwhp. The biggest reason Porsche made the move to water cooling is cost - they're in the business to make lots of money, not to be nostalgic or appeal to gear heads. There *are* some benefits to the new design, ther air cooled head design really didn't allow for effective implementation of 4v/cylinder (yes even the 993's are only 2 valves per cylinder). Additionally, while lack of a water cooling system eliminates any problems associated with well.... water. But engineering of these motors, especially from a metallurgical point of view, is compicated...which makes them expensive to make and repair. 993's and before - are Porsche Porsches. 996 and after are Porsche BMW's. Excellent cars, but not really any heritage left from the original 911 other than a flat 6 engine in the back and the badge on the hood. And that's why people pay more for 993's, because they're the last of the 'heritage'. Air cooled 911's have a very unique feel, some love them, some don't. Take a look at the market for early 911's these days, it's crazy (wish I would have kept mine!).

 

[whiteNSXs]

Mmmm dunno about that 400hp limit thing due to air cooling. There were plenty of modified 964 and 993 turbo 3.6's out there making 600+ rwhp. Eddie Bello's famous 964 made somewhere around 1200 rwhp. The biggest reason Porsche made the move to water cooling is cost - they're in the business to make lots of money, not to be nostalgic or appeal to gear heads. There *are* some benefits to the new design, ther air cooled head design really didn't allow for effective implementation of 4v/cylinder (yes even the 993's are only 2 valves per cylinder). Additionally, while lack of a water cooling system eliminates any problems associated with well.... water. But engineering of these motors, especially from a metallurgical point of view, is compicated...which makes them expensive to make and repair. 993's and before - are Porsche Porsches. 996 and after are Porsche BMW's. Excellent cars, but not really any heritage left from the original 911 other than a flat 6 engine in the back and the badge on the hood. And that's why people pay more for 993's, because they're the last of the 'heritage'. Air cooled 911's have a very unique feel, some love them, some don't. Take a look at the market for early 911's these days, it's crazy (wish I would have kept mine!).

I agree with you. Of course cost is ALWAYS the key factor since anything is possible if cost is no object. Being a long time 911 owner and Excellence subscriber, I am well aware of many super powerful air-cooled 911s from the factory race cars, Ruf, Andial, Powerhaus and many other tuners. As I said the 400 hps being the limit for "a realistic street car" from the factory, it accounts for the cost constraint and profit margin of such a car. If Porsche wanted to continue the air-cooled engine beyond the 400hp, they can easily do that but the cost would not make sense.
Stev

 

[jond]

996/997 have at least a 20% engine failure rate.
It has nothing to do with driving hard, and when it happens, the engine can not be rebuilt.
Hence why they're less expensive.

 

[EK]

20%!? The number seems to be going up every time I click on a 996 price/reliability thread.

Preventive solutions like IMS upgrade costs < $1K in parts from LN Engineering. Comparable to the NSX snap ring parts.

Price is determined by supply and demand. The production number for 993 is about 68K, 996 is over 175K. The 993/996 turbo price vs production numbers is also a good reference, as the 996 turbo GT1 engine doesn't have the same reliability concerns as the regular 996 M96 engines. OK, I agree with Steve, the headlights didn't help.

 

[pjr300]

I considered a 996 before settling in on an NSX. Porsche 996 is very problematic with the fatal IMS issues. In addition, the RMS (seals) and other issues exist. The turbo did not have the IMS defect in the design.

Porsche quietly replaced engines under warranty and subsidized post-warranty replacements for many years, but no more. There is now a pre-emptive aftermarket solution, but plan on spending $3k for its install.

 

[tosugrad]

993 > 996

 

[lustedp]

993 TT are also more rare than 996 or 997 TTs.

Porsche enthusiasts also consider the 996 to be one of the ugliest 911 models ever made. To save money, they used the same headlights as the Boxster and departed from the signature (iconic) round headlights.

I didn't think about it much until I was in the market for a 911 TT. Then I started noticing the difference.

 

[Caustic]

993 TT are also more rare than 996 or 997 TTs.

Porsche enthusiasts also consider the 996 to be one of the ugliest 911 models ever made. To save money, they used the same headlights as the Boxster and departed from the signature (iconic) round headlights.

I didn't think about it much until I was in the market for a 911 TT. Then I started noticing the difference.

I actually thought the new headlights were an improvement. But then again, I never saw the 911 as a pretty car.

 

[Cairo94507]

993 beautiful, 996 ugly, 997 beautiful.

 

[NSXLuvr]

996/997 have at least a 20% engine failure rate.
It has nothing to do with driving hard, and when it happens, the engine can not be rebuilt. Hence why they're less expensive.

SAY WHAT

Go see the cars, drive it. Each one is different. But the saying goes buy the newest 911 you can afford! Each gen. is better and faster. The 996 is the only low spot...mainly because of lack of curves and cheap boxster interior. A 993S with the wide body Turbo shape will depreciate as slowly as a mint NSX. So.... go drive them and then report back.