Safe to drive cross-country using 5W30 oil?

[Ski_Banker]

All I know about oil is that when I wipe my forehead with a slice of bread, it makes a great grilled cheese sammy.

As for NSXSTASY vs. Hugh, both sides have perfectly good arguments. If I were to guess, I'd say that the owners manual's 10W-30 is actually a compromise. Slightly narrower, higher weight range for TRACK use, but still low enough for daily driving in normal temps. They should probably have been more specific on their recommendations, something like: If being tracked extensively, 15W-30 (or 40, whatever), if rarely/never tracked, 5W-20. As Hugh mentioned, it is a legal doc, which are usually compromises that don't offer the best for anyone. Just my dos pesos.

 

[Zenky]

You guys should consider staying on topic. The thread starter simply asked... "if 15+ hours of straight driving is safe while I'm running on 5W30."

Yes he is safe and won't be harmful to his engine.

 

[dquarasr2]

I found this in two places on the ubiquitous highway of mis-information, but it seems to be accurate:

"At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot. "

So this seems to mean is that a 5W30, ONCE WARMED UP, will not thin more than a 30 weight oil would. Which is the same as a 10W30. Which, on a cross-country trip, should perform the same as a 5W30.

 

[Hugh]

It's nice to see people doing independent research and finding out the real facts on their own instead of depending on one sentence in an owner's manual that for all intents and purposes might have been written in a sake induced stupor since it is patently incorrect.

 

[Ski_Banker]

So then 0W-50 is the best, right?

 

[nsxtasy]

You guys should consider staying on topic. The thread starter simply asked... "if 15+ hours of straight driving is safe while I'm running on 5W30."

Yes he is safe and won't be harmful to his engine.

That is absolutely INCORRECT and WRONG.

Please state valid technical reasons why you think this oil is not suitable other than quoting a sentence in a manual written a long long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

Thank you for continuing to post such absolute drivel. The owner's manual was written by the designers in Honda's engineering department who developed the NSX. It is updated every year. Honda has an entire department whose job is to keep track of the incidence and severity of every problem that occurs to its cars, to determine the chain of events that causes the problem, so that design changes and changes in the manuals can be implemented to prevent those problems. That's how they discovered, and later resolved, such problems as the window regulator clips that break, and the snap ring transmission problem. They still recommend 10W30 and NOT 5W30 in the NSX when used above freezing.

 

[SugrueNSX]

That is absolutely INCORRECT and WRONG.

Thank you for continuing to post such absolute drivel. The owner's manual was written by the designers in Honda's engineering department who developed the NSX. It is updated every year. Honda has an entire department whose job is to keep track of the incidence and severity of every problem that occurs to its cars, to determine the chain of events that causes the problem, so that design changes and changes in the manuals can be implemented to prevent those problems. That's how they discovered, and later resolved, such problems as the window regulator clips that break, and the snap ring transmission problem. They still recommend 10W30 and NOT 5W30 in the NSX when used above freezing.

I think we all understand what you are saying but I think that the question that Hugh and others have raised (and I know Hugh will correct me if I’m wrong) If 5 w 30 and 10 w 30 have the same viscosity at running temperature then how could using 5 w 30 cause any extra wear on the engine or any other issues?
I’m not trying to be argumentative here. I have wondered about this in the past and I want to understand it.

Regards,

Patrick

ps I think we all have respect for Honda but should we follow their advice blindly without question? Do you use Honda OEM tire pressures when you track your car? I know very few people who do.

 

[mystican]

tire pressures vs engine oil recommendations are completely different!!!...I can just about gaurantee you that there is A LOT more research goes into engine oil recommendations than tire pressure...

I would stick to the manual's recommendations of 10w-30...period.

Ken Sax is correct!!!

 

[mickeylex]

Whatisreal7 asked if 5W30 would cause damage, not if the owners manual recommends it or not. It seems that quite a few people confirmed what we all already know - the owners manual says 10W30 unless temeratures don't ever get above freezing.

Ok, check. Got that, but what about causing damage by using 5W30? Saying its not in the manual doesn't provide enough information to determine whether or not it causes damage.

So, does anyone have any facts from Honda that confirms 5W-30 causes damage in an NSX engine? Something like that would really help this discussion.

 

[SugrueNSX]

tire pressures vs engine oil recommendations are completely different!!!...I can just about gaurantee you that there is A LOT more research goes into engine oil recommendations than tire pressure...

I would stick to the manual's recommendations of 10w-30...period.

Ken Sax is correct!!!

He may be correct, the question is, why is he correct.
Does anyone know enough to give us a better answer than "Because that's what is says in the book"

Regards,

Patrick

 

[nsxtasy]

I’m not trying to be argumentative here.

Of course. After all, we all know that you're never argumentative.

Do you use Honda OEM tire pressures when you track your car?

When I'm using the OEM tires, absolutely.

I know very few people who do.

I know more people on the OEM tires who do, than don't.

He may be correct, the question is, why is he correct.
Does anyone know enough to give us a better answer than "Because that's what is says in the book"

Because the people who designed the car, wrote the book. And because the people who keep track of how well the car holds up and what problems are incurred, update the book.

We may not know exactly why they made that recommendation, but I can assure you that they didn't just pick it out of a hat. During the development process, they test many, many different engineering aspects to the car. They try things out different ways, and I'm sure that includes the different fluid viscosities tested at various temperatures. Their recommendations in the manuals are very clear. And I can assure you that they know a whole lot more about the reasons and results for various viscosities than anyone here, including those individuals who are telling others to go against Honda's recommendations (even though they will incur no responsibility in the event that any damage occurs as a result of their bad advice).

Incidentally, one other reason for using 10W30 has not yet been stated. If the car is under warranty, Honda has the right to deny a warranty claim in the event of damage if an oil other than that advised in the manual is used in the car. Similarly, even if the car is out of warranty, Honda may be more likely to provide goodwill coverage if the car is maintained according to those recommendations than if it is not.

Again, as the owner of the car, it is your risk and liability if any damage occurs, and it is your decision whether or not to follow the recommendations in the owner's manual and service manual.

 

[Zenky]

That is absolutely INCORRECT and WRONG.

No disrespect, but you haven't showed any proof that 5w30 on 15
hours straight driving could be harmful to the engine? Pictures, life story experienced would be great. TY

 

[SugrueNSX]

When I'm using the OEM tires, absolutely.

What?
I have to let at least 10 psi out of my rears on a hot day to stop them going over the 44 max psi posted on the tire when I'm on the track.

Regards,

Patrick

 

[Zenky]

What?
I have to let at least 10 psi out of my rears on a hot day to stop them going over the 44 max psi posted on the tire when I'm on the track.

well, you know that's what the manual says:smile: . Screw the extra psi you will gain on your tires on hot temperature, right nsxtasy, jk :smile:

 

[Hugh]

Zenky said:

You guys should consider staying on topic. The thread starter simply asked... "if 15+ hours of straight driving is safe while I'm running on 5W30."

Yes he is safe and won't be harmful to his engine.

Too which nsxtasy replied

That is absolutely INCORRECT and WRONG.

Now I'm really confused. Say for argument's sake that the temperature where the thread starter lived was exactly 30 degrees Fahrenheit. He was reading his handy-dandy owner's manual and low and behold it recommended that he use 5W30 oil. Then he proceeded to drive for 15 hours straight. His engine reached it's normal operating temperature like any NSX motor within a mile or two and like just about every NSX engine the temperature guage stayed pegged just below the halfway mark.

Now, let's say God forbid he went for a drive the next day but the cold front had moved out and the ambient temperature was 60 degrees fahrenheit. He decided to say screw the owner's manual and not change the oil to 10W30. He went for the same 15 hour drive, his engine reached normal operating temperature in the same amount of time and the temp gauge was once again pegged just below the halfway mark.

Can someone please explain to me how how the statement "Yes he is safe and won't be harmful to his engine." is "absolutely INCORRECT and WRONG."

To help anyone who cares to offer an explanation, I'll help you along with a little information about multi-weight oils.

Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are an invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature.

At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 5W-30 as a 5 weight oil that will not thin more than a 30 weight would when hot.

The following is important

One point that no one brought up however is the difference between synthetics and conventional motor oils. Conventional oils require a lot of polymers. This really isn't a problem for gasoline engines but has caused problems in diesels. Polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. Generally the higher base multi-viscosity oils require fewer polymers than the lower ones.
(20W50 requires fewer polymers than 10W40 even though they both have a 30 point spread.

This all becomes moot with synthetics

Synthetics require far fewer polymers to achieve their rated temperature range. In fact Mobil 1 5W30 does not use any viscosity index improvers (polymers) in their 5W-30 formulation.

So to reiterate, the thread starter has zero, I repeat zero, risk of damage to his engine by using 5W30 oil. If he were driving a diesel, I'd suggest that he make sure he is using a synthetic oil but as we all know that isn't the case.

I invite anyone to copy this post into an email and send it to whatever automobile company's engineering department you'd like for their comments.

 

[SugrueNSX]

Zenky said:



Too which nsxtasy replied



Now I'm really confused. Say for argument's sake that the temperature where the thread starter lived was exactly 30 degrees Fahrenheit. He was reading his handy-dandy owner's manual and low and behold it recommended that he use 5W30 oil. Then he proceeded to drive for 15 hours straight. His engine reached it's normal operating temperature like any NSX motor within a mile or two and like just about every NSX engine the temperature guage stayed pegged just below the halfway mark.

Now, let's say God forbid he went for a drive the next day but the cold front had moved out and the ambient temperature was 60 degrees fahrenheit. He decided to say screw the owner's manual and not change the oil to 10W30. He went for the same 15 hour drive, his engine reached normal operating temperature in the same amount of time and the temp gauge was once again pegged just below the halfway mark.

Can someone please explain to me how how the statement "Yes he is safe and won't be harmful to his engine." is "absolutely INCORRECT and WRONG."

To help anyone who cares to offer an explanation, I'll help you along with a little information about multi-weight oils.

Multi-weight oils (such as 10W-30) are an invention made possible by adding polymers to oil. The polymers allow the oil to have different weights at different temperatures. The first number indicates the viscosity of the oil at a cold temperature, while the second number indicates the viscosity at operating temperature.

At cold temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 5W-30 as a 5 weight oil that will not thin more than a 30 weight would when hot.

The following is important

One point that no one brought up however is the difference between synthetics and conventional motor oils. Conventional oils require a lot of polymers. This really isn't a problem for gasoline engines but has caused problems in diesels. Polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. Generally the higher base multi-viscosity oils require fewer polymers than the lower ones.
(20W50 requires fewer polymers than 10W40 even though they both have a 30 point spread.

This all becomes moot with synthetics

Synthetics require far fewer polymers to achieve their rated temperature range. In fact Mobil 1 5W30 does not use any viscosity index improvers (polymers) in their 5W-30 formulation.

So to reiterate, the thread starter has zero, I repeat zero, risk of damage to his engine by using 5W30 oil. If he were driving a diesel, I'd suggest that he make sure he is using a synthetic oil but as we all know that isn't the case.

I invite anyone to copy this post into an email and send it to whatever automobile company's engineering department you'd like for their comments.

What have you done with our Hugh you murderous bastard?

Regards,

Patrick

 

[Hugh]

What have you done with our Hugh you murderous bastard?

Regards,

Patrick

Relax, it's really me Patrick!

I just got tired of this debate which has been repeated in other threads ad -nauseum. Lots of times people ask a question and the reply they get is "the manual says this and the manual says that".

When I ask a question I like to get an answer and an explanation. So I decided to post a detailed, concise, indisputable explanation that can be referenced and linked to in the future.

Unfortunately your owner's manual doesn't have a "synch" feature with technological advances and can't update itself to reflect those changes in the real world.

 

[SugrueNSX]

Relax, it's really me Patrick!

I just got tired of this debate which has been repeated in other threads ad -nauseum. Lots of times people ask a question and the reply they get is "the manual says this and the manual says that".

When I ask a question I like to get an answer and an explanation. So I decided to post a detailed, concise, indisputable explanation that can be referenced and linked to in the future.

Unfortunately your owner's manual doesn't have a "synch" feature with technological advances and can't update itself to reflect those changes in the real world.

Hugh has never posted anything that made this much sense!
If you really are Hugh, what would you say to a Frenchman in a Porsche 911 who says that global warming is an issue?

 

[Hugh]

If you really are Hugh, what would you say to a Frenchman in a Porsche 911 who says that global warming is an issue?

Vas t'enculer!

 

[Captain Ted]

STOP THIS CRAP.....!!!!!!

Get off the computer and take a drive in the vehicle you Love so much....
Bunch of Babies...
I change the oil every 3000 miles ( I change it a hughs house under his supervision ! ) I buy Mobile 1....I dont care 10w....5w....at 3000 miles what does it matter ?
I drive.... I enjoy.....I dont worry about anything...

 

[docmarmo]

I too want to change my oil at Hughe's house... :biggrin:

 

[SugrueNSX]

Vas t'enculer!

LOL
For anyone who needs a translation, may I recommend Babel Fish.
But only if you are over 18.

Regards,


Patrick

 

[docmarmo]

Hughe we have enough problems staying friends with the French, lol...

 

[nsxtasy]

Now I'm really confused.

Whereas before, you were... really confused.

Say for argument's sake that the temperature where the thread starter lived was exactly 30 degrees Fahrenheit. He was reading his handy-dandy owner's manual and low and behold it recommended that he use 5W30 oil.

No, that's not what the manual says. Apparently you've never even looked in the manual! It recommends using 10W30 at temperatures above 0 degrees F, and 5W30 at temperatures below freezing. In between 0 and 32, it says that either one can be used.

If he's in a climate where that 30 degree temperature is likely to be a low - pretty much anywhere in the country, this time of year - then he ought to be using 10W30, as recommended for temperatures above 32. If he's in a climate where 30 degrees is likely to be the high, and it's likely to go below zero - say, Alaska - then he ought to be using 5W30, as recommended for temperatures below zero.

 

[nsxtasy]

No disrespect, but you haven't showed any proof that 5w30 on 15 hours straight driving could be harmful to the engine?

5W30 is very clearly NOT recommended by Honda in its documentation.

No disrespect, but you haven't shown any proof of your claim that it WON'T be harmful to the engine to use 5W30, which is in direct contradiction of Honda's recommendation.

Furthermore, in addition to having the engineering department that designed the car, and the service organization that monitors problems with the car, Honda also has "skin in the game" - financial liability for repairing any problems in cars that are used and maintained according to its recommendations, including engine problems in cars using 10W30 oil in warm temperatures (but excluding problems in cars using 5W30 in warm temperatures). I assume you have no financial obligation for fixing any problems that occur in cars following your 5W30 recommendation, other than your own; is that correct?