Samsung 52 inch LCD

[NetViper]

Both the sets you are considering are good. If you buy either and don't calibrate it, it just doesn't matter. If you want to know which one is better, it's the second one. Don't worry so much about knowing the technical aspects of all the technologies.

What all is involved in the calibration process? I saw the CD that the Imaging Science Foundation sells on their site. It was $29.95.

I don't know if there are even people in my area that do any kind of calibration that you are talking about.

 

[SilverStone05]

Turbo, I just bought the Samsung FP-T5884. Can you tell me what you think about this unit? I've got another week or so to return it.

It will be hung on a white wall in a very large room. I can put the couch back from the screen as far as I want. Thoughts?

Also, how do I get the set calibrated?

TIA.

 

[TURBO2GO]

The disc is a big help. A proper calibration is $400 for the DLP and $300 for the LCD. If you don't want to do that, then get the disc for sure! well worth your money.

You can find someone here, but not all these guys are the same. Make a few phone calls and see how long they have been doing it and what their equipment is. Don't bother with the ones that have no gear.

http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

Discs are here:

http://www.videoessentials.com/index.php

Turbo, I just bought the Samsung FP-T5884. Can you tell me what you think about this unit? I've got another week or so to return it.

It will be hung on a white wall in a very large room. I can put the couch back from the screen as far as I want. Thoughts?

Also, how do I get the set calibrated?

TIA.

Good set. White wall is not the best... how about some nice grasscloth wallpaper behind it?

You don't need to sit that far back. You can improve the picture quality by adding an outboard processor, I recommend DVDO units. They are great and not terribly expensive (well, I guess its al relative. In the world of systems we install it is cheap). Plus you can use them on many sets. I know of no TV that cannot be improved on by one of these processors.

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/systems/

I also wanted to mention that THX is certifying a lot of video products now. The requirements are fairly strict. You can rest assured that if you are getting a THX video device is a pretty darn good one. That doesn't mean a non-THX one won't work just as well, but their stamp of approval is worthwhile.

 

[NetViper]

I had always heard SRXD (LCOS) was better than DLP. (better black levels) How does that 61" Sammy compare to the sony Model Number: KDS-60A3000.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665153957

 

[Ryanmcd2]

Tell me about the room. How far do you sit? what size screen are you thinking of? what is the lighting in the room? is this family room or basement? Are there windows and where are they in relation to the TV? Are you installing it yourself?

20ish feet away
50-60 inch, I can spend a little more maybe 6k but not much more
Lighting is from the back a few lights but I can control it.
There are 2 windows, but they do not have direct light on the TV.
I would have a pro install it.

Also there is no direct light on the screen or from any of the walls, it's above a fireplace and I am about to paint the room a darker color.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I had always heard SRXD (LCOS) was better than DLP. (better black levels) How does that 61" Sammy compare to the sony Model Number: KDS-60A3000.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665153957

I am sorry, this is just not true. One can always play around with the way they take their measurements. I explianed the "bleed" effect up top in another post, DLP has less light scatter than anything else. Put a white pixel fully on, next to one fully off and see who has better blacks. Real world and fantasy measurements are two different things. I personally prefer the Samsung DLP.

20ish feet away
50-60 inch, I can spend a little more maybe 6k but not much more
Lighting is from the back a few lights but I can control it.
There are 2 windows, but they do not have direct light on the TV.
I would have a pro install it.

Also there is no direct light on the screen or from any of the walls, it's above a fireplace and I am about to paint the room a darker color.

I am going to send you a PM. I have a friend that is local to you and is ISF certified. 20 feet away is pretty far back. I would say 60" as a minumum... can you do a fixed frame screen say around 70-80 inches or so? You can do a front projector, with the right screen and projector at that size you will get incredible brightness, very deep blacks, great contrast on a much larger picture. And it probably won't cost you any more. I have shown 80" pictures from a front projector in bright rooms to people, they think it's a plasma!!! they say "is that an 80" plasma?". It is that bright.

 

[nsxtasy]

TURBO2GO, thank you for posting all of this excellent information - it's very helpful!

 

[TURBO2GO]

TURBO2GO, thank you for posting all of this excellent information - it's very helpful!

I hope it helps. I did get too technical still. The biggest issue I see these days is that so much of what you should buy is room and environment dependent. I will not make recommendations to people without seeing their room and knowing what their use is. LCD is not always my favorite but I install it in plenty of homes, because the application is right. But you go to a store or pickup a magazine, and they have all sorts of recommendations and they have never seen your room nor do they know what you do with the system.

I see so much expensive gear being bought and sold... and the result is still really bad compared to what it could be. Seriously has anyone ever mentioned how much difference the color of the wall makes that you are hanging your display on? They talk about pixels and chips, angles and Hz and confuse the bejesus out of the consumer... and then sell him something he really doesn't need. This is how it works. Sell by confusion. If someone would give it to you straight, then you'd paint your wall and get your set calibrated and not be buying that new 120Hz or 1080P technology.

Arguing about technology is also a hobby for a lot of people, they sit on the AVS forum and they know a little, not enough, but they can talk endlessly. Once in a while I get a phone call from this guy:

and I usually tell them I am probably not the right person for them.

 

[Osiris_x11]

blown...

I have a Toshiba 52" DLP that's 'consumed' 4-5 bulbs/lamps in approx. 2 years... sigh!?!

This seems to be a somewhat regular occurrence for DLP owners (usually though just once a year).

I did purchase an advanced warranty protection plan (I think it's for 3 or 4 years) which inlcudes bulb/lamp replacement.

In the agreement, I can return the unit if there have been 3+ service calls for repair. Any ideas how I can work this angle? Otherwise, allocating $200-$300/lamp replacement once the warranty is up is mind-blowing, considering this seems to be occurring 1-2x per year!

A lemon?!?


Otherwise, the Sony Brevia 40" LCD has been sans problems/issues so far into ownership!

 

[mickeylex]

Re: blown...

I have a Toshiba 52" DLP that's 'consumed' 4-5 bulbs/lamps in approx. 2 years... sigh!?!

This seems to be a somewhat regular occurrence for DLP owners (usually though just once a year).

I did purchase an advanced warranty protection plan (I think it's for 3 or 4 years) which inlcudes bulb/lamp replacement.

In the agreement, I can return the unit if there have been 3+ service calls for repair. Any ideas how I can work this angle? Otherwise, allocating $200-$300/lamp replacement once the warranty is up is mind-blowing, considering this seems to be occurring 1-2x per year!

A lemon?!?

Otherwise, the Sony Brevia 40" LCD has been sans problems/issues so far into ownership!

Something isn't right w/ that TV.

I had a Samsung HLN5065W 50" DLP from 2003 until 2007 (almost 4 full years) and after daily TV watching, full weekend watching of movies, and many nights of the TV being on overnight while I fell asleep on the couch, I never replaced the bulb.

The thought of replacing bulbs at $300 didn't appeal to me, so I no longer have that TV (replaced w/ a Panny plasma), but when I got rid of it, it still had the original bulb and was still putting out a beautiful picture.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Re: blown...

I have a Toshiba 52" DLP that's 'consumed' 4-5 bulbs/lamps in approx. 2 years... sigh!?!

This seems to be a somewhat regular occurrence for DLP owners (usually though just once a year).

I did purchase an advanced warranty protection plan (I think it's for 3 or 4 years) which inlcudes bulb/lamp replacement.

In the agreement, I can return the unit if there have been 3+ service calls for repair. Any ideas how I can work this angle? Otherwise, allocating $200-$300/lamp replacement once the warranty is up is mind-blowing, considering this seems to be occurring 1-2x per year!

A lemon?!?

Otherwise, the Sony Brevia 40" LCD has been sans problems/issues so far into ownership!

Have you checked to see if there is a filter that needs cleaning? Sometimes the filter gets dirty causing the fan to be less effective and that cooks the lamp. Make sure there is nothing blocking the intake/exit path of air, and make sure the TV is not plugged into something that kills ower to it before it has cooled the lamp. When you install the lamp make sure there are no fingerprints on it at all. Do not touch it's surface. Unfortunately this is a problem with certain displays that you won't have to worry about with Plasma and flat panel LCD.

 

[Motegi]

I have both flat panel technologies, plasma and LCD. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.

However, after reading this thread, I checked out a few of the Samsung 120 Hz LCD flat panels for myself tonight at a dealer display and was very impressed. Side by side comparison with standard 60Hz flat panels clearly revealed much smoother motion with the 120Hz especially for horizontal panning. The video material being presented on the sets was the HD Galapagos documentary. Although the brightness/contrast settings of the panels were not calibrated properly, from a pure motion standpoint the difference was obvious and much in favor of the 120 Hz panel.

 

[Arshad]

Yeah horizontal panning is where you're going to see the biggest impact of the higher refresh, particularly since it's easy to accurately interpolate the intermediate frames.

 

[robr]

I happened to be in Best Buy last night killing some time with my 2 year old while my wife was at the mall. They had the move Ice Age Meltdown showing on all their HD screens (Blu-Ray source). There was a scene I was watching where the camera was panning across the ice cliffs and it was not smooth on any of the 3 or 4 sets in front of me. It was jerky... I mean it wasn't super obvious but once I saw it standing 3' from the screen, it was enough that it would have bothered me had it been my gear. I was thinking it was the source BD since it was happening on all the sets I was looking at, but perhaps this is what you guys are talking about with the 60Hz vs 120Hz.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I wouldn't put a lot of weight in a comparison based on uncalibrated sets in a store. 120Hz introduces atifacts of its own. To concentrate looking at one aspect of picture is one thing, to see its effect on the overall picture is another. I am not telling anyone not to buy 120Hz sets if you want to, just saying don't buy a set because it has 120Hz technology. On its own, its pretty meaningless. Its just yet one other number that can be used for marketing. Tomorrow we will have something else.

 

[Arshad]

Yeah.. tomorrow we'll have 240Hz which the major manufacturers are already looking at. And after that higher resolution... It's never ending.

As Turbo2GO pointed out, 120Hz can introduce its own artifacting since it adds frames that were never there to begin with. Having said that, it can also improve motion, particularly panning.

Robr: One of the issues is that even with frame rate conversion, the source material was still rendered/shot at 24fps. The panning is not as annoying as it is in a movie theater, but it's still there.

 

[robr]

I wouldn't put a lot of weight in a comparison based on uncalibrated sets in a store. 120Hz introduces atifacts of its own. To concentrate looking at one aspect of picture is one thing, to see its effect on the overall picture is another. I am not telling anyone not to buy 120Hz sets if you want to, just saying don't buy a set because it has 120Hz technology. On its own, its pretty meaningless. Its just yet one other number that can be used for marketing. Tomorrow we will have something else.

i don't believe calibration is going to do anything for the motion issues I saw. that's all i was mentioning.

 

[robr]

Yeah.. tomorrow we'll have 240Hz which the major manufacturers are already looking at. And after that higher resolution... It's never ending.

As Turbo2GO pointed out, 120Hz can introduce its own artifacting since it adds frames that were never there to begin with. Having said that, it can also improve motion, particularly panning.

Robr: One of the issues is that even with frame rate conversion, the source material was still rendered/shot at 24fps. The panning is not as annoying as it is in a movie theater, but it's still there.

This particular movie is 100% rendered on a computer, so I don't know that the source really is 24fps.

 

[NetViper]

Why are movies still shot at 24fps?

 

[NetViper]

Yeah.. tomorrow we'll have 240Hz which the major manufacturers are already looking at. And after that higher resolution... It's never ending.

As Turbo2GO pointed out, 120Hz can introduce its own artifacting since it adds frames that were never there to begin with. Having said that, it can also improve motion, particularly panning.

Robr: One of the issues is that even with frame rate conversion, the source material was still rendered/shot at 24fps. The panning is not as annoying as it is in a movie theater, but it's still there.

If there are already problems at 120hz, why would you go to 240hz? Doesn't that mean you would be creating 2 frames that are not really there instead of one? Seems like that would lead to even more problems.

I was told Samsung had the best technology for 120hz, but that was by a sales guy at Sears.

 

[Arshad]

This particular movie is 100% rendered on a computer, so I don't know that the source really is 24fps.

Well the movie is rendered at 24fps for the theater and it's extremely computationally expensive to re-render at 30fps for DVD release. Typically it just gets re-encoded at 24fps on DVD/BD/HD-DVD as well...

 

[Bilulan]

I was giving serious thought to the 5281 or 5781, but I have windows down the side of the room where the TV will be mounted, matched with a west exposure. At Best buy and Brandsmart, in my area, both show glare. I could see the lights hanging from the ceiling, and things behind me...

Turbo,
Any experience calibrating Sharp's LC-65D93U, 65" LCD?
(assuming I go with the greencloth? :biggrin: )

Also, since I've read soooo much babble out there, on this topic....

I know everyone says to get a set with more than 1 HDMI...
1) why is the HDMI connection so preferred over others?
2) What gear are you hooking up to all these HDMI's?
3) How many is the minimum to still consider?
4) HDMI has different versions....(1.2 / 1.3) what's the deal?

 

[DocL]

Also, since I've read soooo much babble out there, on this topic....

I know everyone says to get a set with more than 1 HDMI...
1) why is the HDMI connection so preferred over others?
2) What gear are you hooking up to all these HDMI's?
3) How many is the minimum to still consider?
4) HDMI has different versions....(1.2 / 1.3) what's the deal?

HDMI transmits all of the signals through one cable. The transfer speed is cleaner and the hook-up is much simpler using just one cable for audio and video. I have everything (amp, tv, cable, dvd, PS3) hooked up via HDMI. You can never have too many HDMI inputs, so the more the better. I don't know too much about the 1.2/1.3 rating.

 

[TURBO2GO]

i don't believe calibration is going to do anything for the motion issues I saw. that's all i was mentioning.

It does. There are several parameters that when set incorrectly will affect the way the set displays motion. Each set is different and has different a processor but motion and artifacting are things that are affected by calibration. That is why I am saying you may be seeing something, I am not doubting what you are seeing. But the set that looks worse can easily wind up being the better set post calibration.

One last thing... calibration is designed around the system. It is not for just the TV. It takes into account the source, the wiring, and the set. You must start calibrating with the source first. Many motion problems are created in the source unit (like DVD player, HD box sat or cablebox, etc). All video devices have issues, sometimes you have to "match" them together as best as you can. For example black level can be changed in most DVD players and in all TV's. You have to fine tune the SYSTEM to get the best results. If all this was standard that would be great, but they are usually not.

Turbo,
Any experience calibrating Sharp's LC-65D93U, 65" LCD?
(assuming I go with the greencloth? :biggrin: )

Also, since I've read soooo much babble out there, on this topic....

I know everyone says to get a set with more than 1 HDMI...
1) why is the HDMI connection so preferred over others?
2) What gear are you hooking up to all these HDMI's?
3) How many is the minimum to still consider?
4) HDMI has different versions....(1.2 / 1.3) what's the deal?

I honestly don't remember if we have done that particular model of Sharp, but as I mentioned my past experience with most sharps has not been a good one. No matter what you do, you can never get them setup properly. For what that TV costs, there are a lot better units out there. You can make it look good with a DVDO unit.

HDMI is just a digital AV connection, 1.3 is the newest version of it. I wouldn't worry about something being 1.1 or 1.3. HDMI carries digital audio and video on the same cable. The audio is really not any better than your coaxial or optical digital out, and the video is not any better than the older DVI. DVI and HDMI video are basically the same, the connector is different. There are adaptors that allow you to go from one to the other. DVI has no audio. HDMI is a smaller connector and has some extras to protect content and copy protection.

More than one HDMI input is necessary only if you want to plug in your HDMI DVD player, cablebox, playstation, etc. all directly into the TV. Most AV receivers have HDMI switching now so you go into that and send one feed out to the TV. So having 3 inputs is not so necessary. Also there are some decent HDMI switchers (remote controlled) for about $130, with 4 in and one out.

There is one case to be made for running seperate HDMI wires to the TV for every source. If the source unit (cablebox, DVD) is not designed correctly to ISF standards (meaning its just not designed right), the calibrator can compensate for it by making all the adjustments on the set different for each input. In other words, when on the DVD input he can setup brightness to +5, and on the playstation or cablebox input he can set it up to do +11. Most seperate inputs on TV's allow completely seperate video adjustments. If you plug them all into the receiver and then go up to the TV and use only one input, the calibrator has compromise.... but only if one of the source units has an issue.

 

[nsxtasy]

I wouldn't put a lot of weight in a comparison based on uncalibrated sets in a store. 120Hz introduces atifacts of its own. To concentrate looking at one aspect of picture is one thing, to see its effect on the overall picture is another. I am not telling anyone not to buy 120Hz sets if you want to, just saying don't buy a set because it has 120Hz technology. On its own, its pretty meaningless. Its just yet one other number that can be used for marketing.

Then how does one go about deciding on which set to buy (other than obvious parameters like size and cost)?