I'm a new owner of a 2005 NSX-T.. I like SOS twin turbo but I hear CT is more reliable..
Any info would help, Thanks
Any info would help, Thanks
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Science of Speed or CT Engineering
- Thread starter moeddik
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Also state emissions testing might drive the decision
Anytime you FI an engine that started life from the factory as a NA engine (most of them use cast pistons) then u better set $$$ aside for an engine build since shit can happen (bad tune, bad fuel, etc.)
I like SOS twin turbo.. states that it would produce about 460 with no engine mods.. I'm good with that, plus I like that fact that if I do modify the motor I can go more. As far as emissions go.. I'll get it to pass lol.
Basically I'm asking what would be the best set up to produce 450-ish with out having to modify the motor.
Basically I'm asking what would be the best set up to produce 450-ish with out having to modify the motor.
U realize that pass 450rwhp and u need a clutch that can handle the power and transmission can start to break.
Last I checked a year ago there is ONLY 1 new NSX tranny left in the entire USA.
Last I checked a year ago there is ONLY 1 new NSX tranny left in the entire USA.
Good to know, I'll check with my service Dept.
Depending on what you want your NSX to do, Street, Drag, HPDE Track, Ralley or whatever else you can think of will help to determine your needed power level. Power level will determine reliability and cost.
Unless you plan on drag racing 400whp in an NSX is like having 550whp in a Mustang or Camaro, so without a frame of reference for your 450hp power goal it is hard for me to tell you what system is better for its intended use.
I have owned both a CTSC and a Twin Turbo NSX, they both have their own virtues, but I can tell you for my use of the NSX (littel street, lots of HPDE Track time) having started with the CTSC and moving on to a Twin Turbo I will not be going back. The CTSC just does not meet my needs for a track car without a lot of modifications to the CT system and at that point you may as well have all the other benifits of the Twin Turbo system. If you lived in CA and had to deal with all the CARB crap those guys have to deal with then the CTSC is about the only option if you want FI on your NSX and be legal.
I can tell you what I have had and currently have:
CTSC HiBoost - 370whp fun on the street, not enough power to get into any real trouble, the chasis still felt a little underpowered. On the track after the blower and intake heat soak you will be making less than 320whp by about your 4th or 5th lap. With a lot of work to a N/A 3.2l you can get real close to the 320whp number. It will cost more and have almost no room to grow but a 320whp N/A setup would be more reliable than the CTSC in the long run. A healthy stock 6sp clutch will hold the CTSC power levels, 5sp clutch is less likely to survive.
Twin Turbo - Street Tune 8.4PSI 447whp stock bottom end, more fun on the street, will break the tires loose at the top of 2nd gear if you do not have real sticky summer performance tires, about the limit for a stock NSX chassis without making wise suspension and alignment choices. Upgrade your suspension to coilovers, run the proper allignment, upgrade sway bars, add the non-compliant joints and you can go farther but the main limiting factor to how much power you can put down is rear tire size. So unless you go widebody you are going to be tire limited power wise before the chassis gives up. If you want a ballanced handling chassis the front tires are even more limiting. As noted above you will need a clutch upgrade.
Twin Turbo - Track Tune 6.4PSI 400whp still fun on the street, no traction issues once you get out of 1st gear, seems to be the sweet spot for the chassis with stockish suspension and a good summer tire. A 275/35/18 can handle the power level and with the addition of higher rate sway bars and a good tire you will not upset the ballance of the NSX chassis. Another issue that will show up with track use and added power is the OEM brakes will be stressed beyond their design goal so you will be looking at a brake upgrade as well in the not so distant future. As noted above you will need a clutch upgrade.
Since you already own the NSX and are now doing the research on power adders you may want to spend some time searching through the "Forced Induction" part of the forum, this and just about every topic related to all of these system as been discussed to death over there.
Best of luck with your new car, the NSX is great car for most and an addiction for the rest of us.
Dave
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You should check with Hugh. He has the SOS TT. He's had it awhile so he'll know more about the reliable side of it.
SOS is currently constructing a Twin Turbo kit for my NSX. I figure that with my Angus AP-X exhaust, I should see a little better than 425 whp at 8 lbs boost. I believe that is the target that the stock chassis, clutch and engine can reliably handle . And, is what the NSX should have had by the late 90s or early 2000s. I have the NSX-R chassis stiffening kit and sway bars with Bilstein shocks. Once the clutch wears out I'll probably go with the Sport 275 clutch. I'm not planning on tracking the car except at the occasional NSXPO track days and even then I'll be conservative. To me the turbo is the best bang for the buck and gives me the most options should I wish to increase the HP and build the motor or even take the car back to stock.
The single disc clutch found in the 97+ cars will handle more power then the 91-96 cars but 425whp from a turbo or SC it will not like and will be slipping sooner than later, Not sure about the SOS kit and I would check with Chris to make sure that none of the turbo system needs to be removed in order to pull the transmission. If you have to remove things you should think about budgeting for a new clutch now and save on the labor costs if any overlap.
Dave
very helpful both of you.. I'll probably go with a Twin turbo... I would like to use it more for around town and maybe some off road use.. im getting brakes done, clutch I'll do at the same time of the turbo.. thank you
One reason is 400whp is about the limit that a sticky 275/35/18 can handle on the track when powering out of a corner in 3rd gear, the car/tire will handle more in a straight line but with my current setup the 8.4psi 447whp is just enough extra to force me to pedal the throttle comming out of most 3rd gear corners. So if you cant use it them why have it. The real reason is with boost and HP comes heat, controlling oil temps, coolant temps, IAT's and tire temps are all harder with more power. With my Twin Turbo setup I wanted to prove the viability of my design without the requirement of add on systems to control the added heat. My three years of track testing my system shows that the 400whp is the point where the heat is controllable but very near the limit, if one wanted to track in the 450whp range oil coolers, trans coolers, additional radiators or replace the OEM radiator would most likely be a requirement. Since my goal was a trackable OEM like system that lead me to the 400whp. It is also the least amount of power my system will make without having custom springs made for the Turbo Vane Controllers.
Right now the vane control is explained in post #10 of the linked thread. Hopefully someday soon I will have full electronic control of the vanes then any boost level can happen at any time based on sensor input. If the electronic control works a simple steering angle sensor will be added and used to adjust the maximum available boost based on steering angle. Slow corners with high steering inputs would call for lower boost and as you unwind the wheel and reduce the steering angle the allowed boost levels would raise. In this senario you could have low and mid speed corners act completely different than high speed corners and straight line performance could be maximised without concern for peak WHP in the corners. Just another crazy idea I am working on.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...hargers-TT-more-testing?highlight=Aerocharger
No need to change the tune as the car is tuned to 10psi of boost, but will never see that on the track or street, so anything under 10 PSI and no tune or map change is required unless you change the fuel type.
Dave
Remember, the TT setup by Ddozier is different than the SOS system which uses conventional GT-28 chargers. Dave uses Aerocharger turbochargers which are variable vane. I would post this as analogous to the Porsche 996 TT and the 997 TT which have different driving characteristics, the 997 feeling more like a NA car while the 996 clearly feels like a turbo. I would presume that Dave's setup has characteristics of a turbo and a supercharger since it appears to have the response of a supercharger but has the HP limits of a turbo. A turbo setup will change the characteristics of your stock motor, it will feel delayed because as you get boost, there will be a DRAMATIC and more abrupt increase in hp. Before you decide, you should try to drive or ride with anyone who has these setups.
Whether you track the car or just run on the street makes a world of difference. Systems that are great on the street may have shortcomings on the track. Systems that work terrific on the track will come at a much great cost than something that can do the job just fine for you on the street. They are completely different environments. Also listen to what DDozier is saying, he's quite knowledgable. Over 400 and you need to be perfectly cool with all your temps inckuding air intake. You are flirting with the edge of disaster otherwise. Going over 400 is not for everyone. The CTSC is the simplest kit out there that is proven, low cost, and keeps HP reasonable. It's only marginally effective on heavy track work without supporting mods. So consider your goals first.
I'm very happy with my SOS SC with around 450rwhp and running 285 wide Extreme Rated tires.
Of course KW V3, adjustable sway bars, and APR GTC-300 + Difflow for massive downforce to handle those freeway turns.
Of course KW V3, adjustable sway bars, and APR GTC-300 + Difflow for massive downforce to handle those freeway turns.
I've found a blower's more fun on the street than a turbo setup, assuming it meets your power goals. I've heard of people getting > 500 whp on *built* 3.0L motors by deleting the intercooler and using meth for cooling. My understanding is that some intercoolers can be incredibly restrictive, and rob many lbs of boost.
great comparison of the options! so, in NA mode, what's the best path to get to that 320 whp number?
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Was just talking to dynomike on the phone the other day about meth injection, but I forgot to ask him - do you have to run it all the time? Or can you turn it off for street driving and then turn it on at the track when you expect the intake temps to start climbing?
You need to ask that question in the NA Performance Section:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/76-NSX-Naturally-Aspirated-Performance-(1st-Gen)
But if I had to guess you would have to do just about everything to get there, 3.5l stroker, cams, port polish, cam gears, bump compression, headers, exhaust, intake, aftermarket ECU, who knows what else. That is why I bolt on turbos.
Dave
I just got my '97 NSX-T back from SOS with an SC and the last intercooler they had. I really like the upgraded performance. It maintains everything I like about the stock power curve with just the right amount of added grunt throughout.
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