ScienceofSpeed Intercooled Supercharger System: four cars, 1843 horsepower

[BATMANs]

Depends on which one of the configurations you're asking about. The best way to compare this is look at the power produced and compare to other cars with similar power/weight. Keep in mind that the numbers above are listed at the wheels, where vehicle manufactures list their cars at the crankshaft. For example, the supercharged/intercooled setup on a factory 3.2L produced 416 wheel horsepower. If you were to measure this at the crankshaft, it would be approximately 510 crankshaft horsepower, which puts it well above a C5 Z06 and in sight of a C6 Z06 which are good benchmarks for performance.

This finally brings reliable modern level of power to the NSX.

regards,
-- Chris

The ZR-1 does 0-60 in 3.3 and 11.2 @ 135MPH with a weight of 3352lbs.


I'm guessing that 555rwhp NSX at 3000lbs is running 10.22 @ 133MPH traps.

I may just keep the NSX instead of going the C6 Z06 route.

This is amazing.

 

[BATMANs]

....... I own the 1991 low compression 3.2 L NSX ....First, I had a CT supercharger (Whipple) installed, but after a year or two I burned some pistons at the track. ....Then I took my car to Chris to have a low compression engine built, for higher boost with reliability........

Dennis,

I understand that that factory NA1 compression ratio is a 10.2:1

What did you drop the compression ratio to?


Chris,

What is the maximum boost efficiencies of the blower where it starts to pump hot air?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Dennis,

I understand that that factory NA1 compression ratio is a 10.2:1

What did you drop the compression ratio to?


Chris,

What is the maximum boost efficiencies of the blower where it starts to pump hot air?

Dennis' engine's compression is 9.5:1. I don't understand your last question fully. Discharge temperature is closely related to compressor speed.

regards,
-- Chris

 

[BATMANs]

....... I don't understand your last question fully. Discharge temperature is closely related to compressor speed.

regards,
-- Chris

From my experience and what I have been reading is that most of the blowers out there can't run as high as a boost as turbos before they start to loose efficiencies and pump air so hot that the heat counter measures like water cooled intercoolers can't keep up.

For example, my LS2 GTO's Magnacharger 112 blower with a water intercooler will start to pump hot air past .5 bar of boost. Newer versions of the same blower can do 1 bar of boost with no heat concerns.

I was just curious as to what sorta air intake temps you are experiencing with regards to the various boost levels.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

We have intake air temperature logs under the performance gains & testing section here:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...ucts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/Laminova_Intercooler/

Here is the direct link to the log:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...peed/Laminova_Intercooler/testing/IAT-LOG.gif

regards,
-- Chris

 

[FXMDBilly]

Here is the direct link to the log:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...peed/Laminova_Intercooler/testing/IAT-LOG.gif

regards,
-- Chris

Have any logs of more than just a 1 gear pull (like a 1/4 mile run) to see what the intercooler's IAT's stabilize at when constantly running at high rpm -like on a track?

Billy

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Have any logs of more than just a 1 gear pull (like a 1/4 mile run) to see what the intercooler's IAT's stabilize at when constantly running at high rpm -like on a track?

Billy

hi Billy --

I do not have anything on the website, however, in our durability testing, we found little to no power decrease when put through a series of back to back loaded (simulating a 3-5% grade) runs as the amount of thermal transfer through system's heat exchanger can maintain pace with the thermal energy being put in by the supercharger.

take care,
-- Chris

 

[BATMANs]

We have intake air temperature logs under the performance gains & testing section here:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...ucts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/Laminova_Intercooler/

Here is the direct link to the log:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...peed/Laminova_Intercooler/testing/IAT-LOG.gif

regards,
-- Chris

That's some pretty impressive results.

 

[cptnsx]

The screen shots I've posted show a 1/4 run. The first shot shows the air temp starts at 104 and the second shot shows that it end at 150.8. So a delta of 46.8. This has been consistent. My ait after runs is always around 140-150.

The start time was 4.050 and the end time at 17.6 @129.5 (actually higher but the logging on vehicle speed was not sampled high enough.)

I also post the g-tech pro screen shot for this run. I calibrated the g-tech pro on the track.

 

[BATMANs]

.....This has been consistent. My ait after runs is always around 140-150.....

Impressive.

From what I have heard, the rule of thumb is keeping it under the 160F is ideal...

 

[sparky]

how do you get data out of your G-Tech Pro onto PC? Mine doesn't have any ports. Maybe there are different models of G-tech pro ?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

hi Chris --

Thank you for posting your logs. Good information. In case anyone is wondering, Chris has a 1991 with a factory 3.2L engine installed. ScienceofSpeed Intercooled Supercharger System. Produced 416 whp.

Notes on the car:

1991 stock 3.2L NSX: 416 whp

DYNO GRAPH:


We had the chance to finish this 1991 NSX recently (a review was recently posted here):
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127391

This NSX has a factory original 3.2L engine out of a later model NSX. This car has the new RPS twin carbon clutch installed. This car produced 416 whp at 8.5 psi - it was the car we used for our initial intercooler testing, the results you can find out about here:
http://scienceofspeed.com/products/...ucts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/Laminova_Intercooler/

 

[cptnsx]

Chris

It's a 1992. I have a 1992.... (its better than the 1991 ones):wink:

My g-tech pro is the RR version -- has the PC port.

I've run a 1/4 three times in a row and I get a max of ~150 AITs.
Even during Vegas hot upper 90s temp my AITs would hit only mid 150.

I've noticed that my NSX starting AITs (before a full throttle run) is around 100-120 even if the outside temp is 55-100. It seems to stabilize around this range. I'm sure that a track NSX would get higher esp during braking as the throttle is closed .......my AITs go up then but come back down on full throttle to stabilize around the 150s.

 

[cptnsx]

The ZR-1 does 0-60 in 3.3 and 11.2 @ 135MPH with a weight of 3352lbs.


I'm guessing that 555rwhp NSX at 3000lbs is running 10.22 @ 133MPH traps.

I may just keep the NSX instead of going the C6 Z06 route.

This is amazing.

Keep in mind that 135 mph trap speed is one of (if not the best) trap speed ever posted for the ZR1 a la the C&D NSX trap speed of 110. More common is 128-130. With the best drivers powershifting getting around 132-133 (on great tracks like MIR). A same day test at MIR with a ZR1 and a Z06 showed a difference of 4 tenths and 5 mph (128 vs 133) and (11.1 vs 10.74) all stock. The Z06 was driven by Ranger.

Of course you can always add a pulley --- bigger blower etc to the ZR1 - more reliable than adding cams etc to a Z06.

And you won't get a NSX to run 10.2 @133 without slicks.

 

[BATMANs]

Here is a video of a stroked LS2 with a 10.5:1 compression ratio running 13psi of boost which produces 725HP & 750ft/lbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4l642TnA2c

With that in mind, shouldn't a stock compression ratio NSX of 10.2:1 be able to handle the same boost of 13psi or perhaps 14psi with no ill-effects?

I'm not sure what the A/F ratios are in this LS2 instance but from what I have seen out there the typical ratios are between 11.5:1 to 12:1.

Just trying to get a handle of the max that a stock NSX engine can make.

 

[cptnsx]

I'm not an expert on the NSX (no where near) but based on my reading here at nsxprime and elsewhere - the problem with the NSX is the stock ringlands and pistons can't handle the power levels above 425-450rwhp. The psi level is irrelevant.

My NSX makes 416 @ 8.5 psi but between 5000-7200 I only make around 7.2-7.8 psi. Before the intercooler it made between 5000-8000 9psi but with less power. Those psi numbers are corrected for sea level -- here in Vegas it is 1-1.5 less. So with the gtec-pro and the aemlog (with the math lib) it shows rwhp power around 390-400rwhp --- this accounts for wind, drag, friction etc.

If a stock NSX could handle 500rwhp you would see psi in the 11-13 psi level for FI kits. I sure you could build a NSX with stock compression (upgraded with forged pistons) and arp parts to handle 11-14 psi but if you go to all that trouble it makes sense to lower the compression because you can get more back from the increased boost potential versus what you lose via lowered compression.

I can see having up to 425-450rwhp in an NSX with an upgraded suspension. I have the 4.235 and short gears with my 400-416rwhp and I'm going to have FXMD (and Billy) get me the KV3 and have it corner balanced and tuned - to help put the power down (esp in 1st) aka without any wheel spin - I like a total control feeling.

I can't see how people with 500+rwhp make use of 1st and 2nd. I know turbos can limit boost in the first two gears but with a SC at that level you better get a great suspension and the best sticky tires possible. Maybe get a HKS vs the AEM so you can keep the traction control.

 

[BATMANs]

OK, that makes more sense that the limit is from the pistons being able to handle the extra HP load as oppose to A/F ratios, tuning, etc.....