Stock Engine capabilities??

[md23vtec]

What is the general round about WHP stock Engine can hold and be "safe"? I am not new to the forced induction scene, I know about proper tuning maintence and so on to keep the engine running strong. I have searched and have seen answer's from 300WHP up to 600WHP( which is a big difference. Just looking for a few answers and personal experiences. Thinking of around 425-450 for my NA1

 

[adrenaline_nsx]

I would say no more than 450 to keep it safe.

 

[jmp]

I think it is fair to summarize that conventional NSX Prime wisdow up until about 12 months ago said about 400 whp. However, since that time many have offered comments and experiences about cars with much more than 400 whp running reliably with more. Some drag race stock motors with turbos at 600 whp and have yet to break, which my guess is what accounts for the range you noted. My guess is people would not say, with proper tuning, 400 whp to 430 whp, maybe a little more???

 

[Vega$ NSX]

Speaking from experience, about 400 whp. Any more and you are trading it at the cost of longevity. It basically comes down to a question of when. Also it depends on what year NSX. The older NSX's have a weaker head gasket design and will probably be the first item to fail sooner.

 

[scorp965]

A fresh factory engine can handle 8psi of boost without issues, this can produce 340-415rwhp.

A factory engine that is 15 years old and has 80k miles will start to experience issues with seals, the headgaskets, etc. at this same boost level.

If you're interested in boosting your engine, I would install a setup at 8psi, drive it until an issue occurs, then pull the motor and refresh it with an emphasis on boost. If you're happy with the power from 8psi, then a standard refresh with MLS headgaskets and the removal of the VVIS system will be adequate, if you want to run 12psi or higher (500-550rwhp), a low compression build, with different pistons, stronger rod and head bolts, and a sleeved block will let you do that. I am not aware of anyone who has had a problem with a properly built low-compression build at 12psi, but there is also very limited data for such a situation.

There are plenty of CTSC or GMSC cars, running 6-8psi of boost, for extended periods of time with limited reliability concerns, there is one GMSC car at 8psi that has traveled the equivalent of 160k miles with the supercharger. This is a safe level of boost, that can provide solid power.

If you want to run higher than 8 pounds of boost on what is already a high compression engine, you need to strengthen your motor, if you want to run higher than 12psi of boost, you need an excellent tuner and a thick bankroll in case something bad happens.

 

[jmp]

Scorp is right on. As an example, my car is a 1991 with 380 whp, showing 7.6lbs of boost. Good tuning as everyone will tell you is crucial. I have meth injection to cool IAT's since at the time no one offered an intercooler/aftercooler for the CTSC. Meth is NOT ideal since, if the little pump fails, and I am on it, the outcome is not pretty. Soon to go the aftercooler and probably undo the meth. I am told that the aftercooler and revised tuning could add another 10-20 whp or 390-400 whp which has been the goal for sometime. I have a total of 93,000 miles of which the last 25,000have been with the blower without incident and I run it pretty hard.

 

[Hugh]

What is the general round about WHP stock Engine can hold and be "safe"?

Whatever it came from the factory with. If you boost a bone stock NSX motor, you are sentencing it to death. Sometimes the death is instantaneous, sometimes it's very very slow. But it's inevitable.

 

[angus]

Scorp is right on. As an example, my car is a 1991 with 380 whp, showing 7.6lbs of boost. Good tuning as everyone will tell you is crucial. I have meth injection to cool IAT's since at the time no one offered an intercooler/aftercooler for the CTSC. Meth is NOT ideal since, if the little pump fails, and I am on it, the outcome is not pretty. Soon to go the aftercooler and probably undo the meth. I am told that the aftercooler and revised tuning could add another 10-20 whp or 390-400 whp which has been the goal for sometime. I have a total of 93,000 miles of which the last 25,000have been with the blower without incident and I run it pretty hard.

I would like to agree here but take exception to one comment.

It seems that a lot of people run meth , but some are leery because of the same point , the one you mention.

If the pump fails.

I just want to add my two cents here , as I am a coolingmist dealer and also have previously sold snow performance.

When tuning a car with methanol , the biggest mistake I see is too small of a jet , people like to add a small jet - 200 to 400cc and call it a day , maybe advance the timing and gain some power and that is it.

Problem with this , is that like everyone seems to say , in the (very unlikely) event of a pump failure , that car will go from overly rich (due to adding methanol) at around maybe 10-11:1 to dangerously lean (probably 13-15:1)
THIS IS BAD

What I prefer , is to run a large jet (1000cc or larger) or multiple jets , then add timing , AND SUBTRACT FUEL , bringing the AFR back to say 11.5 - 11.7 .

This way you are adding your own failsafe , since your fuel is being supplemented by methanol , if your meth cuts off , you will go lean - like 17:1 lean , at that AFR the car will not even boost up , as soon as you would go into boost the car would have the effect of fuel cut . I always try to set up methanol like this , since it all but eliminates that chance of damaging your engine due to meth failure.

This is only my opinion of how to use methanol injection ...

 

[doc_tai]

What I prefer , is to run a large jet (1000cc or larger) or multiple jets , then add timing , AND SUBTRACT FUEL , bringing the AFR back to say 11.5 - 11.7 .

This way you are adding your own failsafe , since your fuel is being supplemented by methanol , if your meth cuts off , you will go lean - like 17:1 lean , at that AFR the car will not even boost up , as soon as you would go into boost the car would have the effect of fuel cut . I always try to set up methanol like this , since it all but eliminates that chance of damaging your engine due to meth failure.

This is only my opinion of how to use methanol injection ...[/QUOTE]



Will this work on aem ems or just on stock ecu?

 

[tnguyen]

A lot of methanol kits (if not all of them now) have a fail safe built in. With either a warning like or a sound buzzer, you can set up EMS to activate the methanol.

I know the AEM methanol kit has an output that can be wired to switch to a different map if your methanol runs dry.

So you don't NEED ems to setup methanol, just gotta pay attention to the warning light.

 

[b4rstiwsnc]

How much would it cost (roughly) to build the motor to safely handle 500whp. Just engine internal work with labor costs total. 5k? What an the tranny hold?

 

[Big_D]

How much would it cost (roughly) to build the motor to safely handle 500whp. Just engine internal work with labor costs total. 5k? What an the tranny hold?

Here you go.....plus shipping to AZ of course.:biggrin:

http://http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/custom_engine_program/FI_custom_engine_program/

 

[titaniumdave]

How much would it cost (roughly) to build the motor to safely handle 500whp. Just engine internal work with labor costs total. 5k? What an the tranny hold?

The only real weak link in the stock motor are the pistons. If you go turbo, you should be able to get 500 RWHP with a low compression piston set, bushed rods and a slight over bore of the cylinders. You can pull that with stock heads and MT cams if you push enough boost. Around $5K with new gaskets and bearings.

Of course, you need an after market ECU and a good tuner...

Bigger valves, high lift cams and springs are a good choice with some minor head work, but that will blow your budget

 

[angus]

What I prefer , is to run a large jet (1000cc or larger) or multiple jets , then add timing , AND SUBTRACT FUEL , bringing the AFR back to say 11.5 - 11.7 .

This way you are adding your own failsafe , since your fuel is being supplemented by methanol , if your meth cuts off , you will go lean - like 17:1 lean , at that AFR the car will not even boost up , as soon as you would go into boost the car would have the effect of fuel cut . I always try to set up methanol like this , since it all but eliminates that chance of damaging your engine due to meth failure.

This is only my opinion of how to use methanol injection ...

Will this work on aem ems or just on stock ecu?[/QUOTE]


This will work with either AEM Or stock ECU .

 

[angus]

A lot of methanol kits (if not all of them now) have a fail safe built in. With either a warning like or a sound buzzer, you can set up EMS to activate the methanol.

I know the AEM methanol kit has an output that can be wired to switch to a different map if your methanol runs dry.

So you don't NEED ems to setup methanol, just gotta pay attention to the warning light.

The way that I outlined in my post does not require watching any lights or other failsafe measures , it will simply give the effect of fuel cut when your meth runs out or cuts out.
If people did it this way , it would solve all of the issues associated with watching failsafe , warning lights , buzzers etc.

 

[ENSSEX]

Speaking from experience, about 400 whp. Any more and you are trading it at the cost of longevity. It basically comes down to a question of when. Also it depends on what year NSX. The older NSX's have a weaker head gasket design and will probably be the first item to fail sooner.

how many have the Lovefab running 8lbs with a stock 3.2 as I have ......mine has 20k miles and I would be happy with 8lbs but would this kill my motor?

 

[ENSSEX]

Speaking from experience, about 400 whp. Any more and you are trading it at the cost of longevity. It basically comes down to a question of when. Also it depends on what year NSX. The older NSX's have a weaker head gasket design and will probably be the first item to fail sooner.

everyone I read here has the built up motor with 15lbs or more as I know its a crack addiction ......

how many have the Lovefab running 7-8lbs with a stock 3.2 as I have ......mine has 20k miles and I would be happy with 8lbs but would this kill my motor? and how does a T car hold up?

 

[angus]

I have a customer who is running my kit @12psi , 470 whp on the stock motor for over a year , no problems with his motor as of yet , and he drives it like he stole it. I still think this is over the "reliable" limit of the engine , but he wanted to push it . If you run 8 psi on my kit , you will see close to 400 WHP , this is good for low 12's and you should not have any trouble breaking parts.

 

[ENSSEX]

I have a customer who is running my kit @12psi , 470 whp on the stock motor for over a year , no problems with his motor as of yet , and he drives it like he stole it. I still think this is over the "reliable" limit of the engine , but he wanted to push it . If you run 8 psi on my kit , you will see close to 400 WHP , this is good for low 12's and you should not have any trouble breaking parts.

what is a good contact number for you ? I wanna know more

 

[angus]

what is a good contact number for you ? I wanna know more

PM'd you my # , did you get it?

 

[ENSSEX]

PM'd you my # , did you get it?

I did I will make contact with ya

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

ENSSEX- We have tuned over 30 factory NSX motors to levels between 400 and 497WHP over the past four years with zero failures.

Unlike some other recently developed kits, ours requires no permanent modifications to the chassis. Plus, our kit is gravity drain making the install that much easier.

All of this and its still the least expensive complete kit to date.

 

[dubric]

ENNESEX - I have one of Cody's system on a stock 3.2, with meth, AEM, at 10#'s of boost, producing 480whp that I have been thrashing pretty hard on with absolutely no problems.

I have upgraded with rims and tires (Advans and Direzza's) and have still had to have Cody detune the car in order to get any decent traction under eighty miles an hour. Even though I see all kinds of guys with higher HP, I have no clue how they get that HP to the street.

Hope this helps!

 

[stevenlee]

I'm using an FJO methanol system and it has a pressure sensor that confirms methanol pump pressure to the injector. In the event that the pump fails and there is a loss of pressure it sends a signal to the AEM ECU and the boost and/or timing is modified for safety. This system is automatic and doesn't require monitoring an idiot light or having fast human reactions to save the motor.

Regarding Traction... I'm running about 550 whp with small twin turbos and had traction issues too. That was originally handled by using the speed variable boost control feature in the AEM. I subsequently switched to large 295/35-18 tires on 10.5 inch wide rims and was able to have my tuner deactivate the boost control without uncontrollable wheel spin. The rear tires now "break loose" in a very controllable (good) way in first gear but no longer do I "zing" the engine to the rev limiter unintentionally.
By the way, I'm running the lower JDM gears and 4.23 ring & pinion. I recalibrated the speedo to compensate for the larger tires and am very happy with this set-up.

 

[MetalSpikeRacing]

I just went trough all of this thread which is very interesting, and I have a couple questions, how does the weight of a turbo kit affects the handling of the car? Because I am pretty sure the added weight of the full turbo kit will offset the balance of the car. Turbo, intercooler, pipes, blow off valve, wastegates, and thiker manifolds too.

Also, I see some of you guys posted that will or already have close to 500RWHP on only 8psi? this would be my first time turboing a NA engine so I am wondering if that is all the boost it takes to bump the power numbers that dramatically.

Thanks,

-MSR