I was thinking about converting my coupe into a targa top, when I spoke to a fellow racing enthusiast where he said that if I did that my handling would go to crap. That a coupe always handles better becasue of the rigidity of the car. And that when a manufacturer makes a Targa they renforce the structure of the car somehow to off set this. So dont turn a Coupe into a Targa, that if i wanted one I should have purchsed one from the dealer.
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Structural Integrity ?
- Thread starter NSX23
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I'm not really sure what question you're asking, but even if you could convert your NSX to one with a removable top, it's unlikely you could do it for the difference in price of an NSX and NSX-T. Even if you could, it won't have the same quality of an NSX-T and you'll never be able to get back the money you've sunk into the conversion when it comes time to sell. In fact, it's likely your NSX will be worth less after the conversion than it was before.
Your friend's right: If you want an NSX-T, just sell your NSX and get an NSX-T. It's really that simple.
Your friend's right: If you want an NSX-T, just sell your NSX and get an NSX-T. It's really that simple.
Yellow Rose
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You Got It !!!
So dont turn a Coupe into a Targa, that if i wanted one I should have purchased one from the dealer.
So dont turn a Coupe into a Targa, that if i wanted one I should have purchased one from the dealer.
Wow - For $1500, I'll take 2!
I assume the $1500 includes little more than two cuts across the roof and some latches to hold it in place. I've never cut the roof out of my NSX, but I'm sure without reinforcements to the A-pillar, cowl, rocker, and rear firewall (reinforcements that Honda engineers figured were necessary when they removed the roof), your structural integrity would be noticeably compromised.
There's some good information in the FAQ: Click FAQ (at the top of the page), scroll down to the search text box, type "really scary chop-job nsx", then click search. Seriously.
I assume the $1500 includes little more than two cuts across the roof and some latches to hold it in place. I've never cut the roof out of my NSX, but I'm sure without reinforcements to the A-pillar, cowl, rocker, and rear firewall (reinforcements that Honda engineers figured were necessary when they removed the roof), your structural integrity would be noticeably compromised.
There's some good information in the FAQ: Click FAQ (at the top of the page), scroll down to the search text box, type "really scary chop-job nsx", then click search. Seriously.
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My guess is, the car will lose about half of it's value after a backyard hack job like that, when/if it is eventually put back on the used car market. What would that loss equate to in dollars? $12k? $15k?
I know I would avoid that car like the plague in the used car market. Also, it's a shame to take an otherwise perfectly good (making assumptions here) NSX and subjecting it to that. Why not sell that car, buy a salvage car, and THEN bust out the Sawzall? Heck, you might get some short term profit out of it, as well.
I know I would avoid that car like the plague in the used car market. Also, it's a shame to take an otherwise perfectly good (making assumptions here) NSX and subjecting it to that. Why not sell that car, buy a salvage car, and THEN bust out the Sawzall? Heck, you might get some short term profit out of it, as well.
I have a targa, and even with all the structural engineering from the factory, I can still feel a major difference in rigidity with the targa off. The car is much more pleasant to drive with the targa on (aside from the wind in my hair). I can only imagine what an aftermarket chop job would feel like.
Man!!!!! you guys are all refering to a backyard hack job......it will be done by a professional place that has done them before so its not gunna be that bad of a job....the question is whether it will still handle....and when it comes to resale value ...why would it lose value ...it should definetly go up.
You will absolutely lose value - I would rather buy a factory targa than a modified targa every day of the week, and would expect to pay more for it. There is a guy on Ebay who has been trying for a looooong time to sell his "convertible" NSX, even though it seems to be a quality job. The problem is, who wants to take the chance on it? There is virtually no way to guarantee the work is done to factory specs, even if it is done by a reputable company.
I'm sure you could have a very good job done, and it will probably look great. You will lose rigidity, and it will be very noticeable (as it is on my factory targa, as mentioned).
As your friend mentioned, you could compare what you could sell your coupe for to what it would cost to buy a targa. That would be the ideal solution, even if it is impractical. What happens if something goes wrong on an aftermarket targa conversion? You can't go back to a coupe then....
Just my .02
Todd
I'm sure you could have a very good job done, and it will probably look great. You will lose rigidity, and it will be very noticeable (as it is on my factory targa, as mentioned).
As your friend mentioned, you could compare what you could sell your coupe for to what it would cost to buy a targa. That would be the ideal solution, even if it is impractical. What happens if something goes wrong on an aftermarket targa conversion? You can't go back to a coupe then....
Just my .02
Todd
One day you will be pleading with potential buyers about this. They will say "thanks, but I'll buy one I KNOW is right."NSX23 said:
I apologize for being so harsh in my previous post, but I can't see a quality conversion costing only $1500. For a targa conversion costing this much, I envision:
1) A cheap plastic end cap on the ends of the removable panel and the roof sections to cover the empty space in the cross sectional areas
2) Generic rubber insulation for sealing, which leads to wind noise, water leaks, and creaks
3) Either a patched up (existing) coupe headliner or a semi-fitting targa headliner (bought from a dealer for ?$ additional)
4) Bolting hinges in places that the factory had not yet incorporated the proper mounting locations for
5) Lacking the factory reinforcement braces to accomodate the loss of rigidity from the cut up roof.
I've had friends who modified their vehicles like this, and the quality was shoddy at best. To make this worthwhile, you would have to buy a factory top panel, headliner, engine cover, hinges, insulation, etc, and then have a shop fabricate the rest. The parts alone would probably cost $3000+, and then the (properly completed) shop work would be another $2000-$3000. For $1500, all you would end up with is a net loss of $10000 on the value of your car, and perhaps some fleeting admiration from people who don't know better.
Do this to a Ford Bronco, not your NSX. Please.
1) A cheap plastic end cap on the ends of the removable panel and the roof sections to cover the empty space in the cross sectional areas
2) Generic rubber insulation for sealing, which leads to wind noise, water leaks, and creaks
3) Either a patched up (existing) coupe headliner or a semi-fitting targa headliner (bought from a dealer for ?$ additional)
4) Bolting hinges in places that the factory had not yet incorporated the proper mounting locations for
5) Lacking the factory reinforcement braces to accomodate the loss of rigidity from the cut up roof.
I've had friends who modified their vehicles like this, and the quality was shoddy at best. To make this worthwhile, you would have to buy a factory top panel, headliner, engine cover, hinges, insulation, etc, and then have a shop fabricate the rest. The parts alone would probably cost $3000+, and then the (properly completed) shop work would be another $2000-$3000. For $1500, all you would end up with is a net loss of $10000 on the value of your car, and perhaps some fleeting admiration from people who don't know better.
Do this to a Ford Bronco, not your NSX. Please.
Back in 1984 I purchased a new targa Vette. At that time you could not purchase a convertible Vette (were'nt produced till 1986) and a local shop (Conversions Concepts was their name, I believe) offered a convertible conversion (basically cut off the targa hoop , lightly braced the area behind the seats, fiberglass cover over the trunk area and canvass roof with makeshift folding room frame for around 6 grand). I took a look at this car (was not impressed at all) and passed. Those cars have absolutely NO VALUE today. They are looked at for what they are.....second rate conversions. The factory had installed braceing not only behind the seats, but under the cowl, X-frame under the chassis, larger crossmembers both front and rear, reinforced windshield headers, ect. Theres just no way an aftermarket "chop Job" can compete. Another conversion that I had the displeasure to view was an Ferrari Testerossa....converted again to an convertible. The re-enforcement was so bad that in a frontal accident the windshield header would fold down and cut off the unfortunate driver's torso. Leave your coupe alone and buy a T model if you need the targa roof. 
Good idea!
Would the car perhaps be considered salvaged after the conversion? I'm guessing since the roof is part of the structural frame to begin with, removing that part will immediatly cause frame damage.....in other words, yes, it will affect handling, and yes it will depriciate...drasticaly. Not trying to be mean, but its a good thing you chose not to do it.
I'm speaking from experience. My friend has a yellow mica Rx-7 R1...the rarest of the Rx-7s over here, only released for one year in '93. The previous owner wanted a moon roof, and since the R1 (equivalent to Type R for Honda) didn't have one, he brought it into a shop, they did a profesional job on it, but the rigidity disapeared AND the previous owner had the hardest time selling it....my friend bought it because eventually the motor blew and he got it for a very, very low price. Such a shame really.
I'm speaking from experience. My friend has a yellow mica Rx-7 R1...the rarest of the Rx-7s over here, only released for one year in '93. The previous owner wanted a moon roof, and since the R1 (equivalent to Type R for Honda) didn't have one, he brought it into a shop, they did a profesional job on it, but the rigidity disapeared AND the previous owner had the hardest time selling it....my friend bought it because eventually the motor blew and he got it for a very, very low price. Such a shame really.
I don't think so. I'm sure there must be a legal requirement for a salvage title, which would be defined as the insurance company buying your car from you as the result of a claim... no?Spinner said:
I think Salvage has more to do with the cost of repairs vs. retail value of a "normal" car. In NC if a repair cost more than 40%??? of the value, then the title gets branded. ICBW.
I think that's the criterion that the insurance company uses when they decide whether or not to total the car (although I thought the percentage they use is 80 percent)...ncdogdoc said:
Ken - when I crashed a BMW, my insurance told me if the damage amounted to 35% of the value they would total the car. Unfortunately for me, it was only about 30% damage.
At least in Arizona when an insurance company takes possession of a car ( the car enters the insurance pool ) before paying a claim they must get a title that is branded as salvage. Different insurance companies have completely different criteria for " totalling " cars; some total cars with very little damage just to avoid the expense and ill will generated by the inevitable problems that a percentage of any type of repair will cause. If the car is presented for retitling and registration it must then get an DMV level 4 inspection and then receives a salvage/reconstructed brand. In my experience that is the only way a car gets a salvage brand suggesting that it is time for some additional brands such as "meatballed " to describe cars that have been modified using only parts from the Home Depot and other such abominations we've all seen.
Disclaimer: Not that I would ever chop my coupe's top off, I don't like to drive without anyway on top of my head anyways, except I'm wearing a helmet
Just curious, if someone wants to chop the top off, or say already did, and all the sudden he miss the dynamics and handling of the car with top... Can you put in a roll cage to retain the stiffness/ rigidity of the car?? (Well, it really doesn't make sense, cause a good roll cage would possibly looks pretty bad on a targa... but I'm just wondering if anyone had an answer for it.)
Just curious, if someone wants to chop the top off, or say already did, and all the sudden he miss the dynamics and handling of the car with top... Can you put in a roll cage to retain the stiffness/ rigidity of the car?? (Well, it really doesn't make sense, cause a good roll cage would possibly looks pretty bad on a targa... but I'm just wondering if anyone had an answer for it.)
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