Does anyone make an intercooler that will work with the SOS supercharger kit? Does the CTSC intercooler kit work? Is that still available?
Thanks,
Jay
Thanks,
Jay
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Supercharger Intercooler still available??
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From what I gather, we are all waiting for someone here to start producing sc intercoolers again. Maybe we need to awake a sleeping giant and start voting for how many people want to buy one?
That is the only way anyone will take up the project again, If you had 10 units payed for at about $1600 a unit that is where you would have to be to get the cores made. I can get it done with a few improvements to the original DA design but I already have an investment in another intercooler project for the turbo guys. If you could sell 10 units I can make it work numbers wise.
Dave
Dave
So does anyone want to do a group buy? [emoji4]
I'm in for one.
I know Rob, 1K2GO wants one very badly.
The issue is that the full kit price gets expensive. While you can get the intercooler itself for say $1600, you also need a front mounted heat exchanger, pump and plumbing, and for the CTSC guys, New injectors, aftermarket fuel management and tuning. It's a whole other ball game. Unfortunately there aren't many people with the SOS kit... Or ones that go beyond the basic CTSC kit. So getting 10 people is difficult. I've been through this many times and I explained it all on my big CTSC group buy which I believe ended up over 30 kits. To me, there have always been two systems... The basic CTSC because of its simplicity and low cost, or if you spend a lot and go high power, then the jump to a turbo. With Dave's system being the most well thought-out system I've come across. I think there's value in intercooling a supercharger, but it gets expensive for what you gain.
Awwww, you ruined it for me.... But thank you for the heads up. I appreciate it. I was aware of the radiator, pump, and plumbing involved. But why would you need tuning, injectors, fuel management just for cooling a charge? School me, I am new to ctsc ownership.
Because you are making more power. A substantial amount more air is flowing into the engine as it's colder and more dense. The injectors are already maxed out with the standard kit. Comptech gets more fuel into the engine by doubling the voltage to the fuel pump. It's creating about twice the fuel pressure and so when the injector opens more fuel is being forced through it. But I believe it's still at 80% or highe in cycle duty. Dave may be able to be more exact with numbers and correct me but you are just about tapped out. Which means you need larger fuel injectors and a new fuel pump. Something has to then control those injectors and that can't be the OEM ECU. So you need an AEM or something... Then that must be tuned.
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So intercooler at $1600 and I don't know what the pump and exchanger cost but say another grand... Injectors at $600+, new fuel pump at a few hundred, 2-3000 for engine management, 750-1000 for a tune... plus install labor of all this stuff. You've quickly escalated and CTSC guys who are many, are suddenly looking at thousands more. Dave's turbo system is not cheap... But at 8-9 PSI it's making significantly more power than any supercharger kit and it's able to maintain that power no matter how hot the engine gets. If you track, it sounds like even the water cooled intercooler will eventually soak. Even shad running a large blower on a 3.5 liter stroked engine was making 575 HP on Kip's car finally pulled it and went turbo. The reason he bolted a blower to 1K2Go's car was most likely a tighter initial budget. Then you get in that middle land where you can't go back, and you can't quite get to where you want to be. My suggestion if you really need and want more power is to simply change from the blower to Dave's system. The beauty of the CTSC and somewhat the SOS kit is that it's a bolt-on and can be switched from car to car with no issues. The SOS kit is more powerful but more difficult to swap too. Still.... Consider it carefully. Think it through all the way.
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So intercooler at $1600 and I don't know what the pump and exchanger cost but say another grand... Injectors at $600+, new fuel pump at a few hundred, 2-3000 for engine management, 750-1000 for a tune... plus install labor of all this stuff. You've quickly escalated and CTSC guys who are many, are suddenly looking at thousands more. Dave's turbo system is not cheap... But at 8-9 PSI it's making significantly more power than any supercharger kit and it's able to maintain that power no matter how hot the engine gets. If you track, it sounds like even the water cooled intercooler will eventually soak. Even shad running a large blower on a 3.5 liter stroked engine was making 575 HP on Kip's car finally pulled it and went turbo. The reason he bolted a blower to 1K2Go's car was most likely a tighter initial budget. Then you get in that middle land where you can't go back, and you can't quite get to where you want to be. My suggestion if you really need and want more power is to simply change from the blower to Dave's system. The beauty of the CTSC and somewhat the SOS kit is that it's a bolt-on and can be switched from car to car with no issues. The SOS kit is more powerful but more difficult to swap too. Still.... Consider it carefully. Think it through all the way.
That is understandable and this is for sake of conversation and not argument, but say I live in the SF Bay Area where it's always cool, foggy, and dense with air from the Pacific marine layer. So let's say, my car does not have a intercooler and I drive it to a racetrack in the valley where temperatures are almost 40 degrees in difference versus where I started. Wouldn't that be the same as having an intercooler driving the car on a stock Oem ecu and intercooler in 105 degree heat versus having the same non intercooler system in a 48 degree dense foggy area?
No because you're talking about ambient air temps.... And we are talking about intake air after the blades of the supercharger have beat on and compressed it. Those temps are much higher than ambient temps. While it's true that cool in and hot out is better than hot in and even hotter out, it's not a strict relationship between the two temps like you think. 30 degrees cooler ambient does not mean 30 degrees cooler once compressed by any type of compressor.
To add, I was under the assumption an intercooler also creates a drop in boost pressure across the core, therefore lowering the actual pressure and stresses on the motor. Is that correct? As I said I'm new to all of this so any advice is really cool.
It's still better.... But not as much as you think. Raise boost or run the car a while and the ambient in can come close to somewhat irrelevant. Just like your car that still reached operating temp whether is 30 out or 90 out. It just reaches it quicker when it's 90.
Okay, that makes sense. Thank you.
Yes there is pressure loss with any kind of intercooler and tubing, that's why you want that as short a path as possible. But it has the opposite effect of what you think. Because of that pressure drop, now the compressor has to work harder to build the same boost. We are talking strictly about pressure loss across a core or tubing now... Nothing temperature related. So when your engine without intercooling or tubing (on a turbo or centrifugal blower) made 9 psi, and that's what your limit is set it... Now it will have to make 11 PSI if there is a 2 PSI pressure drop across the core. It's making 11 and the engine is still seeing 9. 2 are lost across the core. So it's actually working harder, and beating the air more, and creating even higher temps. In general the intercooler more than makes up for it and that's why they work.... But talking strictly about pressure loss, it's creating MORE heat and MORE work for the compressor.
All this is one reason why CFM is your most important number and not boost. You can have a lot of pressure (boost) but that air may simply be hot. Heat expands air and creates pressure. But it's not more oxygen, it's just hotter air. CFM is a more constant number and a lot more useful in comparisons.
The reason I know Dave's system is great is because it's efficient. He is building a lot of power at low boost levels. Anytime you can be more efficient, you're turning more heat into actual horsepower. Less stress on an engine even when it's making more power. Don't forget an internal combustion engine is 50% efficient at best. Sometimes as low as 30. A ton of the energy in the gasoline is being turned into heat. They aren't electric motors that are up in the 80-90% range. It's a complex, shitty design we've perfected over the last century only to reach 50% efficiency.
All this is one reason why CFM is your most important number and not boost. You can have a lot of pressure (boost) but that air may simply be hot. Heat expands air and creates pressure. But it's not more oxygen, it's just hotter air. CFM is a more constant number and a lot more useful in comparisons.
The reason I know Dave's system is great is because it's efficient. He is building a lot of power at low boost levels. Anytime you can be more efficient, you're turning more heat into actual horsepower. Less stress on an engine even when it's making more power. Don't forget an internal combustion engine is 50% efficient at best. Sometimes as low as 30. A ton of the energy in the gasoline is being turned into heat. They aren't electric motors that are up in the 80-90% range. It's a complex, shitty design we've perfected over the last century only to reach 50% efficiency.
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You know your stuff man, thanks for all of the commentary. It makes more and more sense as I read.
I guess I am trying to take my old greddy turbo'd BB6 prelude into equation when boosting a nsx with a blower. But either way, the ctsc sounds and looks awesome and it such a joy to drive. Eventually I will upgrade to a aem piggy back controller. But for the now, I'd stil pick up a intercooler for the sake of them being long gone without any chance of return.
This is all great info. For me, I am strictly concerned with safety. If I can lower the IAT, it is less prone to detonate. I'm not really concerned about power gains. I would have gone turbo if I was. The idea of dropping my IATs considerably for safety and making more power at less boost is worth the money to me. I already have injectors, fuel pump and AEM ecu so it is less for me to have to add.
My wife would be pissed if there were 10 of me. I am choosing to not go the meth route because I don't want another consumable in the car. I agree that an intercooler will eventually heat soak but I feel this would happen at the track not so much cruising around.
You have an AEM ECU and properly tuned this statement is true, but with the CTSC system as it was designed relies on the heat soak of the blower to raise the IATs to then make the OEM ECU remove timing based on the increased IATs. Without this happening the CTSC running the OEM ECU will be more prone to detonate with an intercooler lowering the IATs. On the CTSC with the more efficient AutoRotor units care must be taken not to push the car hard with cool ambient air temps until the entire system has reached normal operating temps. These AutoRotor CTSC on the 3.2l cars with cold ambient air can and will knock until fully warmed up.
Dave
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The reason Meth works even after cooling the IATs is that Meth itself is a fuel with a very high octane and when added to the gasoline raises the overall octane and resistance to knock.
read for some edjumacation
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/152610-Meth-Kit-with-CTSC
I say you all spray water and be done with it. Dave sells a spray mounting plate too.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/152610-Meth-Kit-with-CTSC
I say you all spray water and be done with it. Dave sells a spray mounting plate too.
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Yes, we just all need to do a group buy for Dave's kit, then i can install my ctsc 
What about E-85? Chris at SOS said they have done a couple of conversions even on intercooled supercharged cars. I asked about it when I was there last month. E-85 cools the actual combustion event. It is a good amount of money especially if you don't have the AEM 2 or the Infinity.
I've looked into this before but the cost of conversion, but mostly the availability of e85 locally and at my local tracks was an issue.
What needs to be done to convert?
* fuel lines
* fuel pump
* injectors?
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