The rigidity of a crashed, cutted and rewelded NSX body...

[NSX Freak]

Hi Guys,

I have a sad story to share about my beloved NSX and some question to consult you guys. I feel utterly upset when I realised that the NSX I have just bought a few months ago had an severe accident history. The previous owner lied to me said it is accident free... It is my bad that I was so careless that I did not go for underbody check. If I did, definitly I will be suspicious and asked him about the dented fuel tank.

Yes, the fuel tank is moderatly dented at its lower left section (on engine bay side)... I realised it when I was having my fuel pump replaced. At first, I tried not to believe it when my mechanic was telling me that my NSX has an accident before. In order to proof himself right, he did further inverstigation on my NSX's lower beams, cross beams and the back section of my NSX's chasis. Then, he points out that the tail body of my car (starting from the back window and the side air intake section) doesn't belongs to the original car body. It can clearly be seen that the body has been cut and been welded back with another NSX body. When I heard all what he said and seen all the welded points, I can feel that my heart sinked... I never know that my beloves car would have such an "glory" histories... I feel completely mortified...

As for the tranny and the engine, my mechanic tells me that it might be a transplanted engine and tranny, as well. In his own opinion, from the dented degree of the fuel tank, the original engine might has been badly crushed during the impact. Logically, it should not be working anymore... What I have inside my engine bay might be a transplanted engine and tranny...

Guys, I have some question to ask...

Althought NSX is made by whole body of alluminium. But still Honda confidently claims that it has a very strong rigidity as steel body. Now, since my car body has been cutted and welded with alien nsx body... Let's assume that the welder did a near perfect job in the welding process, do you guys think that my nsx would have the same rigidity as a perfect body? If no, in what percentage do you think it would have lost. Would my NSX still a safe car to drive in high speed and boost? How many years do I have to do chasis recheck and re-allignment, if I boost my car occassionally? Would there be any ways to regain its perfect rigidity as before it has been crashed? Do you think "Chassis restructuring" by welding all the points and joints of the whole car will work? Just like how they stregthen the body of a race car?

In advance, I would like to thanks to all who provide any input to my post, any answer to my question and your precious time to view my first post in Prime. Thank you very much.

 

[matteni]

Sorry about your troubles - that is a terrible fealing for sure.

BTW - Is your car blue 97' by any chance? There was a 97 blue NSX I saw at NSXPO 98 that has been well documented on this forum as it was cut in half and completely repaired at Acura's expense as a study to see how well an NSX "could" be repaired. It was done 100% with no expense spared.

Do a search on your VIN and see if it shows up here. Even if it is not your car you might want to find those threads as there was a lot of good discussion.

Good luck...

 

[Zennsx]

Is your car a black 91-92 purchased from Maryland?

 

[Yellow Rose]

U K

.....is made by whole body of alluminium.

Nick / Zen - I don't think the car is from the US.

Based on Freak's spelling of how we spell "aluminum" I think the car is from within Europe.

There are other words in his post that are spelled with a British style (realised) vs spelled with an American style (realized).

 

[Pacemaker Kid89]

carfax simple as that

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Depends which country he is from. I know here in Holland you can take legal action to the seller for this sorta thing.

 

[93BlkOnBlkNSX]

I don't mean to throw salt on a wound, or sound like a jerk, but it just goes to show how careful buyers need to be, and that you get what you pay for. I'll never again apologize for the price I have set my '93 at, because I KNOW what a new owner would get (if I indeed pull the trigger to sell).

 

[Zennsx]

I don't mean to throw salt on a wound, or sound like a jerk, but it just goes to show how careful buyers need to be, and that you get what you pay for. I'll never again apologize for the price I have set my '93 at, because I KNOW what a new owner would get (if I indeed pull the trigger to sell).

I had a similiar encounter with a seller from Maryland for a black 91 or 92 nsx which had a clean carfax , Further investigation had proven the car had a salvaged title and was almost sawn in half. The seller finally admitted he bought the car sight unseen and had it shipped from another state only to find out it was a salvaged car .

 

[ak]

You should PM pbassjo. I think he's probably one of the most knowledgeble in this field.

From what I have read, NSX frame is built from pressed aluminum pieces that are spot welded to form one frame. So in theory, you should be able to cut the damaged rear frame and weld on a new one and still have the same rigidity. I've seen the front end repaired this way on a Japanese website before. The question is was it done right? Maybe you can take it to a high end body shop that is familiar with working with aluminum bodies? Check to see if all of the alignment points are in spec and also if the frame is straight and if the welding is high quality.

Sorry to hear about the bad news!

 

[Bigglezworth]

From what I have read, NSX frame is built from pressed aluminum pieces that are spot welded to form one frame.(

I highly doubt that all those pieces join together at the exact same line without any overlap for additional structural integrity.

I'm of the opinion that since cars are all built of pieces of material and welded, bolted, etc., together, that repairing a care with secondary pieces is just fine. Caveat to this is that the replacement of those pieces must ensure the integrity of the initial performing piece is retained. In the case of a roof being replaced on a roll-over, I would have full expectation that a new roof would be put in place with mounting points in the same location as the original.

I can't speak for your situation without seeing where the lines of repair have taken place, but like I said above, if the repair is all along the same straight line, the integrity of the unit will not represent what the initial design intent was.

 

[skt]

I had a similiar encounter with a seller from Maryland for a black 91 or 92 nsx which had a clean carfax , Further investigation had proven the car had a salvaged title and was almost sawn in half. The seller finally admitted he bought the car sight unseen and had it shipped from another state only to find out it was a salvaged car .

You did a carfax and it was clear and how did this further investigation go? Details please thanks

 

[NSX Freak]

Hi guys, thank you very much for all the inputs posted above. I feel a bit relieved when I read some of you guys are feeling sympathetic towards my mishap.. I shouldn't have been that careless. You are right, 93BlkOnBlkNSX. Even if I feel regret now, that will be just too late... I'am not a bastard like its previous owner who will looks for innocent victim just to scraping this car off. What I'm really concern about now is how safety is it for high speed boost. NSX is a exotic sport car... it would be a great waste if it is not able to drive fast... I really really wish that the rigidity will still be as though as a complete nsx, eventhought mine is a carfax.

However, you guys realy put me a :smile: when I read most of the post were more concern about my origins.. HAaha... this is funny... is this really important?

Anyway, i'm from the oceania-Australia.

carfax simple as that

Oh.. I have never come across with that terms. Anyway, thanks :wink: For I have learnt another vocabulary, today. hehehe

You should PM pbassjo. I think he's probably one of the most knowledgeble in this field.

You mean he is the most knowledgeable in carfax field or the body chasis field ? I will try to contact him, thanks! :wink:

 

[NsXMas]

that sucks. Hopefully you will never buy another car without inspection.

 

[LJSB]

I am no expert on Carfax and Carfax is not very expert from what I've seen either. It is not the gospel.

I read this post and am in no rush to assume the mechanic is correct.
In the area described there are so many welds and the way the seam sealer is brushed on it can look very rough on some cars right from the factory. Pull off a quarter on a NSX and it looks very rough in that area. It is not made to appeal to the aesthetic sense, in this, a primarily "hidden" area.
To have replaced almost one half of the car, engine and transmission on a crashed car is very expensive and it is hard to justify the costs of such a repair and still put the car on the road if it is done correctly.
Too little information here. Maybe some pictures would help. If you want send me some but make sure they include two of each area concerned. One close and another 2-3 feet back.

There are people including some repair persons that love to shoot someone down by picking apart a car, even a customers car.
This post reminded me of a 1980 Corvette I had just bought used years back. A repair tech. that had no idea what I do for a living reached under the car, felt around and proclaimed to all present that my car had been clipped, cut in half and re-welded together. He showed me the supposed seam and cut points and was acting very proud of himself to the astonished on lookers.
All marveled at his explanations and he was basking in this light of awe and recognition.
Needless to say he was wrong about everything he said. I went over with him what he had erroneously identified and soon he was feeling very sheepish and quite the fool. Had I been a neophyte, I would have felt very upset at his findings and felt betrayed angry and embarrassed just like you do now.
A dent in the fuel tank doesn't prove anything either.
He may be right but the real issue is how is the car? Does it drive and run well? If it looks good, runs and drives good and you enjoy it, then enjoy.
There aren't many virgins out there, and besides don't they throw virgins in volcanoes? :smile:

 

[NeoNSX]

Hey NSX Freak,

Wish I could welcome another fellow aussie to the forums under better conditions. I'm very sorry to hear what's happened to you. What we could do is arrange a few of the "aussie boyz" to go pay the original owner 'a visit'. We could break both his legs for you -- one leg for deceiving you, and the other for trashing the NSX.


On a more serious note though, I've sent you a PM (Post Message).

 

[Juice]

Hmmm...Australia charges exorbitant fees for NSX. But if a NSX was brought in in chunks? Front clip + rear clip = whole NSX for sale.

 

[nsxsupra]

I don't mean to throw salt on a wound, or sound like a jerk, but it just goes to show how careful buyers need to be.

I second that. Pay $100 and have a reputable shop or Acura dealer to do a pre-purchase inspection could virtually eliminate the chances of getting cars that have been through serious body damages. Carfax also help. IMHO these two things are a must when purchasing a used car.

If the repair job is good, just don't think about it and enjoy the car.

 

[Bigglezworth]

I'm no expert, but isn't Carfax only available on North American vehicles? Perhaps it doesn't exist down under?

 

[mistermino]

In theory the rigidity is going to be intact. however it depends on the quality of the welds, take it to a certified welder and generally they can tell you if the welds are shoddy or not. Even if the rigidity isn't up to par with stock, if it was welded well it shouldn't be too far off. So as pbassjo said "If it looks good, runs and drives good and you enjoy it, then enjoy." If you're convinced there's a major lack in rigidity can always try to put in a reinforcement somewhere somehow.

 

[rickysals]

I would always run a carfax, but it's only definitive if it finds something bad, like an accident, etc...

The people who think if carfax doesn't show an accident... then it means 'virgin', just may end up with a previously destroyed car.


I feel for your pain. Is there any action you can take against who sold you the car and failed to inform you after you asked about the wreck?? (presuming you can prove with an educated NSX mechanic that it was in fact wrecked)? I know they can "forget to mention" something, but they can't flat out lie to you. See what you can do?

 

[LJSB]

I know they can "forget to mention" something, but they can't flat out lie to you.

Of course not! If they did their nose would grow verrrrrry long.

 

[NeoNSX]

Hmmm...Australia charges exorbitant fees for NSX. But if a NSX was brought in in chunks? Front clip + rear clip = whole NSX for sale.

The problem we have in Australia (if I understand it correctly) is if an NSX is imported from Japan, it's accident history is wiped clean. You have to have contacts in Japan who can track it's true history. So technically the guy who sold you the NSX could be telling the truth -- it had no accident history; at least here in Australia.

I wouldn't mind knowing how <B>NSX Freak</B>'s NSX got here to Australia - was it a Japanese import, or shipped in parts?

 

[LJSB]

You folks seem sold that this is a wrecked rebuilt car and I am not.
Crash a car so that the motor/tranny is no good and you think there would still be a good front clip? On the NSX I don't see how.
I am very skeptical.

 

[NSX Freak]

Does it drive and run well? If it looks good, runs and drives good and you enjoy it, then enjoy.
There aren't many virgins out there, and besides don't they throw virgins in volcanoes? :smile:

Thank you all once again for all the inputs :smile:

Pbassjo>> Yes, it does run well, very smooth and looks good. That's why I could not realise my car is actually a carfax. But however, whenever I attempt to coner a sharp and tight corner at around 40-60 km/h, the car seems to understeer quite badly. The car slides forwards even I have hald turned my steering wheels. Is this a normal phenomenom to all of the NSX owner here? Also, when I'am driving at above 230km/h or higher and above on a straight road, I can feel that my car seems to be unstable... Most significantly I feel lifts.

Yeah, I do understand what you mean... sure there ain't many virgin out there. But I hope mine is one :tongue: But I didn't realise mine was actually been rescued out from the volcano :biggrin: Yeah, perhaps you are right... Its now too late to do anything... I think I should accept the fact and be responsible to my own careless-ness. Since she runs well (except the 2 problem i experienced above), looks beautifully (except the scar in the engine room and beneath the trunk carpet), everything is in a great shape.

Anyway guys, I have took some photos of the scars on my NSX.. Well, just some sharing... and letting you guys to have a clearer picture of how my NSX has been cut and rewelded.

http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61806&img=DSC01297.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61807&img=DSC01298.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61808&img=DSC01299.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61809&img=DSC01300.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61809&img=DSC01301.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61809&img=DSC01302.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61812&img=DSC01306.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61813&img=DSC01307.JPG
http://www.yourimagehost.com/is.php?i=61814&img=DSC01309.JPG

So, what do you guys think about the welding points and do you think it is properly welded?

 

[NSX Freak]

I feel for your pain. Is there any action you can take against who sold you the car and failed to inform you after you asked about the wreck?? (presuming you can prove with an educated NSX mechanic that it was in fact wrecked)? I know they can "forget to mention" something, but they can't flat out lie to you. See what you can do?

Unfortunately... No...

The only thing I can do is, to sack him up with rice sack and then beat him up when he was walking his way home :biggrin: