Track Cams

[CL65 Captain]

I just bought this from Amazon for $200:
http://www.amazon.com/Aiptek-Action..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0C29B19JKW6VWSPVS76A

It's got an external microphone port as well as image stabilization (but won't be perfect I'm sure). I also got the wide angle lense for another $30.

I wanted the new Sanyo Xacti HD2000 but couldn't justify the $400 price difference.

Dave

Everything you ever wanted to know about that model here.

I am using the Aiptek HD which has a fixed lens. I tried the older Action HD, but the auto zooming function doesn't mesh well with track driving. It kept going in and out of focus.

I then bought a Sunpack 0.45 wide angle lens that goes on the front of it. It sticks on with a magnet which lasted one lap before it flew off. Now, I have it secured with the magnet and wrapped with electrical tape. :wink: Works great!!!! I am using a 8GB SD card and one spair battery will last all day at the track. I also opened it up and modified it with a Radio Shack jack where I can plug in a lapel mic which I have run to the trunk (exhaust noise and no wind noise). :biggrin:

Looks like they finally added a external mic jack so you don't have to do the mod I did.


If you want something similar with HD cheap look at the DXG-595V (Walmart - $179) or their new one DVH A80 (not sure if it has hit the street yet.)

 

[Cozmo]

If you want something similar with HD cheap look at the DXG-595V (Walmart - $179) or their new one DVH A80 (not sure if it has hit the street yet.)

Beware cameras that use CMOS sensors instead of CCD. Almost all of the cheap (<$3000) HD cameras seem to be CMOS, which uses a "rolling shutter" which does not work at all inside a car.

After spending a couple hundred dollars on mounts to get my Canon HV20 securely attached in my car I found out that it can't handle any kinds of vibrations or movement whatsoever and is nearly impossible to record any video that doesn't look like crap inside a moving car.

Unfortunately it seems that you're much better off with regular non-HD DV cameras which use CCD sensors. :frown:

I recorded some test video on my way to work yesterday which I could capture and edit up if anybody really wants to see how bad it is inside an NSX.

 

[Mac Attack]

Everything you ever wanted to know about that model here.

I am using the Aiptek HD which has a fixed lens. I tried the older Action HD, but the auto zooming function doesn't mesh well with track driving. It kept going in and out of focus.

I then bought a Sunpack 0.45 wide angle lens that goes on the front of it. It sticks on with a magnet which lasted one lap before it flew off. Now, I have it secured with the magnet and wrapped with electrical tape. :wink: Works great!!!! I am using a 8GB SD card and one spair battery will last all day at the track. I also opened it up and modified it with a Radio Shack jack where I can plug in a lapel mic which I have run to the trunk (exhaust noise and no wind noise). :biggrin:

Looks like they finally added a external mic jack so you don't have to do the mod I did.


If you want something similar with HD cheap look at the DXG-595V (Walmart - $179) or their new one DVH A80 (not sure if it has hit the street yet.)

Thanks for the review link - I had actually browsed that one before the purchase. From that review, it appears as if the auto focus of the Action GVS has been improved over the old Action one you had. I hope so from your review, but if the Porsche guys are using it like John said, that should be good enough for me :wink:

I also got the Sunpak CAM-2110 MagMount 0.5x Wide-Angle and will probably end up taping it on like you said :smile:

Spare NP-60 batteries are so cheap ($5) I bought a few of those too.

I've never posted a video on Youtube or Vimeo, but will try to get something up and report back when I figure everything out.

Dave

 

[Cozmo]

Here's my video of the Canon HV20 with CMOS rolling shutter problems.

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

For any camcorder for track use you need one that records to a media card

I also can highly recommend the Filmtools vacuum mounts for inside/outside use.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Here's my video of the Canon HV20 with CMOS rolling shutter problems.

Cozmo, what are you using to mount it?

 

[BioBanker]

Ive got a VHoldR

http://www.vholdr.com/

I have not used it in my car yet, but it works well on my bike. Video is NOT HD, and wind noise is an issue (on my bike).

I think that the VHoldR was made for dirt biking, mountain biking, and extreme sports, but the motorcycle guys seem to be using it a lot and you can watch their videos to see if it will work for you quality wise.

Its indestructible. I bet I could run over it in my car and it wouldnt be affected.

 

[Cozmo]

Cozmo, what are you using to mount it?

This one. I also have the 4.5" "cleat" mount which I use for my microphone (wasn't using it in those test clips). The cleat is not nearly as nice or heavy duty. I wouldn't put my camera on it.

The camera is well secured to the back window and doesn't move at all.
The problem is more an issue of the outside world moving too much in relation to the camera, not vibrations.

I'm thinking about building a foam surround to attach to the mount and absorb some of the vibration from the car, but I don't think it is going to do much good. It seems that many people have tried some extreme things to work around this problem and have not been very successful.

I did see that some of the AVCHD cameras use CCDs instead of CMOS sensors. That would be worth a try, and conveniently enough those are also the ones that don't use tapes.

Here's a good video comparing CCD and CMOS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaDrS-yzIE

along with plenty of other youtube videos showing the effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cItYepSTw74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qC0_nIUq9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y484jV_2IfA


Unfortunatley it seems that there isn't really anything you can do, other than be educated and don't buy these cameras if recording in cars is what you plan to do. :frown:

 

[Mac Attack]

Flip has an HD unit, is that what you have? How do you mount it?

Dhalsim:

Was this taken with your Flip?
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120820

If so, that looks pretty decent. Of course you can't tell from Youtube, but like Turbo said, was it an HD unit? You may want to consider a wide angle lense if one will fit. You can find them for around $30.

Dave

 

[TURBO2GO]

I'm even more confused now. Everyone is posting stuff that is adding to my confusion. Bio, you talk about the VholdR but you have never used it in the car, right? The whole CMOS/CCD thing, which honestly I just don't know enough about also is confusing. Are there blurr/jello effect issues with the aiptek? I don't have a harness bar and that aiptek looks hard to mount. I wish you guys with these cams would post pics of how they are mounted in your car.

 

[Cozmo]

I'm even more confused now. Everyone is posting stuff that is adding to my confusion. Bio, you talk about the VholdR but you have never used it in the car, right? The whole CMOS/CCD thing, which honestly I just don't know enough about also is confusing. Are there blurr/jello effect issues with the aiptek? I don't have a harness bar and that aiptek looks hard to mount. I wish you guys with these cams would post pics of how they are mounted in your car.

I imagine that no camera that is intended for in-vehicle use is going to use CMOS. It seems to be used mostly in HDV camcorders. I bought my camera a couple years ago never expecting to take it in the car.
I think as long as you do your research ahead of time you'll be fine.

 

[BioBanker]

I have not used it in the car yet, no. I have used a cumbersome miniDVD palmcorder before mounted to my harness bar, but the VHoldR is new.

I can give it a test go tomorrow.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I have not used it in the car yet, no. I have used a cumbersome miniDVD palmcorder before mounted to my harness bar, but the VHoldR is new.

I can give it a test go tomorrow.

Yes! thank you Dave. I have to buy one this week, my trackmasters is this weekend.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Looks like VholdR just went HD and improved a bunch of other aspects inclding mic, optics, and processing. Samples look great. But it doesn't help me for this weekend as they won't ship til the 15th.

http://www.vholdr.com/contourhd/overview

Sorry Dave yours is old already I will buy it for $25. :biggrin:

 

[BioBanker]

Im sure the HD is awesome and all, but I cannot imagine how I would handle the size of those files.

Its about 30MB per minute as it is in my low (but sufficient) resolution!

Sorry Dave - I tried to test this AM, but when I went to attach it to my harness bar, I didnt have room as the mount for my old palmcorder is still on it and I needed to get to work. I was ripping it up in my neighbourhood last night with it as a helmet cam, but when I went to look at that, I didnt like the helmet cam aspect. I got a handlebar mount for it for my bike and Im going to move that to the harness bar too. It should be much better.

If you still want me to test, Im happy to. The videos on their site seem pretty representative of what Ive been getting.

The cam itself is super cool tho. Im going to slap it onto my 4 year old and watch the mayhem unfold at kindergarten.

 

[Mac Attack]

Wow - that's pretty cool. It's even got lasers on it :biggrin:

What's up with all these fancy mounts? Some cost more than the video cameras :biggrin: Duct tape works pretty well - I like to suspend it off of my headliner. You get a little cushioning that way to reduce your rolling shutter problems :biggrin:

Just kidding of course.

 

[Cozmo]

Im sure the HD is awesome and all, but I cannot imagine how I would handle the size of those files.

Its about 30MB per minute as it is in my low (but sufficient) resolution!

Depending on what kind of video you're using now it might be the same. The bitrate for DV and HDV are the same,just that HDV uses better compression.
Hard drives are really cheap.

 

[clarknm]

So I want something relatively cheap, but good enough quality that I'm not wasting my money. The VholdR/CountourHD seems like a perfect option, except that according to this thread CMOS is not the way to go. Any thoughts on that? The VholdR site specs say it is CMOS...Also sucks that it's not available NOW, I want instant gratification with my impulse buys

 

[Mac Attack]

Update on the Aiptek Action GVS:

I like it, it's small, cheap (now $180 @ Walmart), and takes great picture/video for the price. To get a good video, no matter what camera you have, it takes a lot of time setting up.

Lenses:
The large wide-angle lense I bought for it on Amazon was too big (Sunpak has small, medium, and large versions). I don't know anything about cameras or lenses in general (just a point-n-shoot kind of guy), and no one on the internet had posted anything about add-on lenses or filters for the GVS. I also didn't have lense ring dimensions from the GVS until I had mine in-hand. For those of you who know how to select lenses, I can post the GVS lense ring dimensions. For me, I just hacked up the lense I had ordered since it was only $30 and I didn't feel like going through the hassle of trying to get another one and then it not fitting either. It's too bad there are no professional shops around me to buy locally. I grinded off some of the lense base metal and magnet to allow it to securely fit inside of the GVS lense ring. Focal distance seems good since there is no vignetting (blurring of the corners) with my hack job - you just can't zoom with the lense on. Also, when you first turn the camera on, always hit the macro button for it to zoom out slightly, and then hit the macro button again to go back to normal. Once you zoom you'll have to hit the macro button again to zoom out. This helps a lot for in-car footage.

Another trick with a lense is to cover about half of it with 20% or so window tint. When mounted in your car, your dash will typically be dark (lower half of your video), and the scenery outside will be light (upper half of your video). The tint helps compensate so your final picture will look just right. This takes some playing with obviously to get the tint on the lense and the camera picture aligned just right. Because I use the GVS for home video too, the wide-angle lense is a must indoors, so I just have the tint on a small piece of lexan that I place in front of the lense when in the car.

Mounting:
I came up with a mount using the suction cup mount from my Navigon GPS (which has a much nicer mount than most GPS systems out there). The GVS is so light that this mount supports it just fine. I pretty much just use tape and a piece of memory foam to tape it on the mount, which is then suction-cupped to the rear divider window. Works great.

Batteries:
I bought an extra NP-60 battery for Fuji cameras for only $3. Each battery lasts a good 1hr, maybe more as I haven't really tested it for max duration. You can't beat this.

Video Quality:
I don't have any noticeable rolling shutter problems as posted in Cozmos video with my CMOS Aiptek Action GVS recording 720p/60frames per second. This is with image stabilization turned on, a little memory foam to dampen vibrations, and the GVS also has an auto-focus lock that I've always used so far. It's been raining here, and I really only get the opportunity to do the in-car camera thing to/from work. I'm pleased.

Sound:
Only thing I'm still fiddling around with are where to mount the external mic so that I mostly get engine noise and not wind noise. The Action GVS has a high gain on the microphones, so I'm trying a lot of things out with the sound. Any tips? I've tried inside the cockpit behind the drivers seat on the firewall, inside the air-intake side sills, inside the engine compartment. There is either too much wind noise, or too much road noise. I need some inline device on the microphone to adjust the gain and then just stick it near the tailpipe or something like that. Or, just do some overlay with me faking engine noises. My external mic picks up 100hz-10khz, so maybe I just need to build some filters to hone in on intake/engine/exhaust noise. Doesn't help I still have OEM exhaust.

When it stops raining and I get some decent video I'll try and post.

Dave

 

[CL65 Captain]

post to vimeo.com ~ free account and 500mb file size and HD.

 

[Cozmo]

Update on the Aiptek Action GVS:
...
I don't have any noticeable rolling shutter problems as posted in Cozmos video with my CMOS Aiptek Action GVS recording 720p/60frames per second. This is with image stabilization turned on, a little memory foam to dampen vibrations, and the GVS also has an auto-focus lock that I've always used so far. It's been raining here, and I really only get the opportunity to do the in-car camera thing to/from work. I'm pleased.

I'd love to see some of your test footage. It being better may be due to several factors including:

* 720p instead of 1080p24
* that gyro image stabilizer
* your memory foam
* video codec (probably not but who knows) Your camera uses H.264 whereas HDV is old-ass MPEG2

I still have some experimenting I need to do (mainly 1080i instead of 24p like i was using in that test video) . I think if I made some kind of U shape to wedge the camera into out of foam it may help as well.

 

[Mac Attack]

I'm trying to edit the file now. I downloaded the trial version of Sony's Vegas 9 to experiment with, but I can't get any sound from it

The editing software that came with the camera (Arcsoft's Total Media Extreme), seems like it only lets you burn to DVD.

Any recommendations for a simple editing software (just cutting and pasting really) that does .mov files?

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Mac Attack]

Vimeo says SD videos will be displayed and that it takes awhile for HD videos to be processed. For a short clip like this, should it be less than 3 hours? Doesn't look like this is hi-def yet? I uploaded a 720p file with a high bit rate....

Anyways, this short clip was taken on the way home from work last week on my dirty car after we got a break from the rain. The windshield is filthy and you can see bird crap on it. Sorry. Also, my tape didn't hold up well as I kept removing it for access at work.

I basically used the provided Arcsoft software to trim it down and convert from a 720p 60fps .mov file to a 25fps .mp4 file (well, Vimeo will post-process later anyways to a 25fps video). You can't do any other post-processing with the provided Arcsoft software, so this footage has not been altered in any other way (no de-stabilization, sharpness, contrast, etc). The sound is from the crappy built-in mic that I covered up with tape to attenuate it a little.

How do I embed the video screens in a post?

Dave

http://www.vimeo.com/4647375

 

[CL65 Captain]

Ya, definitely not HD on Vimeo otherwise it would have the HD On/Off button on the right (see my upload... http://vimeo.com/2023604)

What are you using for the mount?

 

[Mac Attack]

Crap - This time I saved the file as the native .mov and uploaded to Vimeo. Gotta wait 2 hours now but it will be here:
http://www.vimeo.com/4652521

I'm using the suction cup mount from my Navigon GPS that's stuck on the rear divider window. I stick a piece of memory foam between the mount and the GVS, and wrap tape around the mount and camera. Unfortunately, the tape worked loose since it lost it's stickiness over the course of the day due to me constantly fooling with it at work. You can see through the video how the camera starts slipping down. It eventually falls completely off and onto the center console after the cop passed. I don't have any footage of what happened later - honest :biggrin:

The tape usually works well - you just need to put some fresh stuff on after swapping out the battery or opening up the cover to access the USB outputs.

Dave