Type-S Zero Project Suspension

[Honcho]

Continuing my discussion with [MENTION=10201]goldNSX[/MENTION] over here.

My original thought was JRZ or KWV3, but I've kind of moved past them. I don't need all that adjustability. I just want to enjoy my S Zero on the circuit and on the touge for the joy of driving. I am not racing other cars, or doing time attacks. After discussing with some of my friends in the racing world, they all advised most adjustable suspension systems are detrimental to the non-professional driver because more often you make the car worse. Unless you are a pro-level driver, or rich enough to have access to a vehicle dynamics engineer and/or telemetry, you won't be able to truly understand how the changes you make affect your car and often will end up making the car worse. They all advised to get a OEM Honda system that is designed to work well on all tracks in all conditions, just not great on any one of them.

That took me back to the JDM parts catalog. Good news- factory new S Zero suspension is available... for $1,500 per corner! Ouch! Same story for NA2 NSX-R. About the same price. That's just beyond the budget at this point, though things might change by the time Stage 1 rolls around in 2019.

But then I got to thinking, what if I could get to 75-90% of the OEM S Zero setup by custom building a suspension using as much of the published Honda data as possible? I really like the idea of a non-adjustable damper and spring combo that is tuned to the car and will last a long time- just like the Honda OEM suspensions. I recalled Gold's adventures with the Bilstein system from many years ago and thought it might make a good starting point. The B6 damper is a robust monotube design with 100k mile or better durability. Bilstein USA has suspension engineers that will custom valve the dampers based on spring rates, vehicle dynamics and your intended driving usage. Thus, I bet if I fed them the NSX info (weight ratio, motion ratios, wheel rates), the OEM S Zero info (spring rates and damper rates), along with my intended usage (fun track day car), I could get close to the S Zero system for vastly less money (less than $2,000 at today's prices).

Finally, I could be patient and watch the marketplace for a used S Zero, NA1 R or NA2 R system. Piran sold one recently (S Zero!) for $1,300. My only concern is how worn out these things are. Most of these used suspensions are at least 10 years old. Does anyone know if they can even be rebuilt/recharged?

Thoughts on which way I should go? The Bilstein option is tempting because it would be a fun project, but maybe I should just wait and pick up a used OEM system instead.

 

[BBVNSX]

Hi Honcho,
My car is also a bit on the NSX Type S Zero Theme (but not limited to it as I plan to lose further weight). I have KW V3 on my car, and at your target budget (AS Motorsport offers KW V3 for ~ 2100 $), based on my personal experience, i would say that KW V3 offers the best of both worlds, as it can be tuned (if one have the skills to do it), but you can also leave it at the recommended KW NSX specs, and have a great suspension setup. This suspension was developed around the NSX, and tuned in real world conditions by KW with the actual car on track and street and also on a suspension dyno.
Remember this is just my opinion, and i admire the way you are doing things and your new NSX project! just decided to share as at first i was leaning to install the NSX-S or S Zero suspension, but ended up with KW setup, and I am very happy with it!

 

[docjohn]

I think stuntman has some basic recommendations for bump rebound on the kw system..pm him he is a wealth of info....from the butt dyno perspective:wink:

 

[mwagner10702]

Here are a couple threads that discuss KW settings

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/155508-KW-V3-recomended-settings/page2

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...Spring-Packages-by-FX-Motorsports-Development (see page 2)

 

[goldNSX]

My original thought was JRZ or KWV3, but I've kind of moved past them. I don't need all that adjustability.

The adjustability is helpful in the beginning while deciding on the ride height and maybe on the spring rates but most likely you leave it there once you've set it to your preferences. The only thing you might adjust from time to time are the shocks. I prefer a very comfortable ride (for a sports car) but would ramp the valving up for a trackday and would drive home with the comfortable setting again. So the adjustability IS a nice feature.

After discussing with some of my friends in the racing world, they all advised most adjustable suspension systems are detrimental to the non-professional driver because more often you make the car worse. Unless you are a pro-level driver, or rich enough to have access to a vehicle dynamics engineer and/or telemetry, you won't be able to truly understand how the changes you make affect your car and often will end up making the car worse. They all advised to get a OEM Honda system that is designed to work well on all tracks in all conditions, just not great on any one of them.

That is certainly true to some extend BUT maybe they were talking about racing suspensions (JRZ, Moton...). The adjustability of these is far beyond what a KW3 offers. The KW is preset to some extent (high-speed valving). KW even notes that it's NOT recommendable to adjust the front end very soft and the rear very hard or vice versa. If I speak of KW3 I always refer to the standard setup they offer which comes with 6 kg/mm springs front and rear because that's the one I've extensively tested when it came out. That's where KW spend the most engineering time on.
As soon as you change the spring rates you have to do it all over again and engineering time is very expensive. I can't evaluate their clubrace version with stiffer springs. A shot in the oven are variants of KW3 shocks with all different kind of spring combos because they 'run over' the engineering effort by KW on the 7-post rig. This would set you back to a time more than 20 years ago where aftermarket wildly choose a spring and +-matching shock and called it a sporty suspension.

It all depends on what you're aiming for. A professional (or younger) racer is mainly interested in lower track times. An occasional racer is more after fun and emotions while the track time has not the ultimate priority. Of course, there are exceptions on that rule...I'm not surprised that they recommend an OEM suspension because Honda spent much time and money in engineering. There's a video when they were on the Ring for the Type S suspension tuning somewhere, same for the Type R (which is basically a Type S Zero).

But then I got to thinking, what if I could get to 75-90% of the OEM S Zero setup by custom building a suspension using as much of the published Honda data as possible? I really like the idea of a non-adjustable damper and spring combo that is tuned to the car and will last a long time- just like the Honda OEM suspensions. I recalled Gold's adventures with the Bilstein system from many years ago and thought it might make a good starting point. The B6 damper is a robust monotube design with 100k mile or better durability. Bilstein USA has suspension engineers that will custom valve the dampers based on spring rates, vehicle dynamics and your intended driving usage. Thus, I bet if I fed them the NSX info (weight ratio, motion ratios, wheel rates), the OEM S Zero info (spring rates and damper rates), along with my intended usage (fun track day car), I could get close to the S Zero system for vastly less money (less than $2,000 at today's prices).

Yes, sometimes they have been 'adventures'. Been there, done that. Believe me, 75-90% is not close enough. I've sent Bilstein my shocks back and forth maybe 10 times in the last 12 years and am now at 95-98%. It all depends on the communication between you and Bilstein. It sucked in the beginning with the old (now retired) guy in Germany many years ago. But now the younger people are more customer friendly. But even if you give them all possible data, it's still a trial and error approach.
One short EDIT: Bilstein told me that a monotube behaves differently in the real world driving than a two-pipe-damper (like OEM or KW3) even if they show the same damping rates on the dyno. So you can't just take over the valving of an OEM shock to the Bilsteins.

Finally, I could be patient and watch the marketplace for a used S Zero, NA1 R or NA2 R system.

Some bought the Type R suspension when it was cheap and some of them sold it some years later... It's purely a track suspension, too harsh for many also depending on the condition of your roads.

Thoughts on which way I should go? The Bilstein option is tempting because it would be a fun project, but maybe I should just wait and pick up a used OEM system instead.

Maybe there are more options in 2019 if Ohlins is able to engineer a suspension with long strokes. But being a racing part they require frequent rebuilding. Bilstein can be rebuilt too but they are the most durable shocks out there.

And there are much more factors: wheels, tyre sizes, stabilizers...maybe in 2019 and maybe I can supply with some data from my findings.

 

[BBVNSX]

Some bought the Type R suspension when it was cheap and some of them sold it some years later... It's purely a track suspension, too harsh for many also depending on the condition of your roads.

This was the main reason i decided to go with KW V3, after speaking with vendors, reading many threads, here on prime, and on NSXCB.UK (as I'm located in Europe and roads have similarities), and hearing some real world experience of owners who had the Type R suspension (and also Type S) I came to the conclusion that it would compromise street driving (too harsh).

 

[NSXGB]

Unless you are developing it for fun, in my book it's better to buy the full S-Zero setup (sway bars, etc. too) as tried and tested by Honda R&D with their 'unlimited' resources and experience.
You will know it will be a great setup and work straight out of the box. It will also be true S-Zero.

I had the full Type-S setup on my car and loved it. I was really confident pushing it. I have changed now to KW V3 for a ride that suits UK roads better and so I could lower the ride height for cosmetics.

IMHO, if you don't put on the full S-Zero setup, you will have to rename your build thread

 

[dxd]

I am having the KW put on my NSX in about a weeks time. I purchased them from "Coz" on prime and he is going to be in the San Diego area next week and offered to put them on for me, re align the car and dial them in! Great guy and knows his stuff. I can post here after I have them in and drive around with them for a while to offer my impressions. But from what I have read (extensively) is that this is one fo the best set ups for the $$ you can find. I also like a lower ride height so I am curious to see how it all works out : )

 

[goldNSX]

The next step-up would be this: http://www.kwsuspensions.com/ddc and I hope that someone in the near future will do a set for the NSX. I do not want to miss it in my DD anymore.

 

[B2FiNiTY]

I would go with the kw and just call it a day.

 

[dxd]

I would go with the kw and just call it a day.

That was the conclusion I came to as well after doing 10+ hours of research!

 

[docjohn]

but you guys don't really understand Honcho.....he must do what satisfies his conscious....

 

[goldNSX]

[MENTION=4282]docjohn[/MENTION]: been there done that.

 

[docjohn]

haha the road less taken tends to be the hardest....

 

[goldNSX]

The wild horses wanted to be ridden... I was in the same situation back then and underestimated the project. It came out more expensive than a serious set of coilovers. But the learning phase was more important. Would I have done it again back then: clearly yes! Would I do it nowadays? I guess no. The princessin no longer feels peas under 10 mattresses...

 

[RYU]

The Type S/R is a different conversation than the KW/JRZ and it seems you're set on the S. With that said... why the S? I thought this was more of a track car so why not the R instead?

Though... if it is partially a street car then why don't you want adjustability? I'm confused.. by your objectives but I also suffer from Small Brain Syndrome

 

[RYU]

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] I know of a used R damper set for sale. complete with springs, etc.

 

[Mac Attack]

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION]

Well, you have some time to figure out what you want, so I would take this opportunity to go to as many NSX gatherings as you can and try to sample the various offerings.

It all depends on how you'll use the car the most. 90% street? If so, I can understand the allure of OEM Honda parts, but my understanding is the Type S and Type R suspensions are overly harsh for street driving. I would also be concerned about OEM rebuilds. I've heard of quite a few leaking Showa Type R dampers. Hopefully you can find a shop to rebuild them, because you have to expect at some point that 15+ year-old dampers are going to need service... even if they are relatively new when you buy them.

I remember you were OK with the BC coilovers on your previous NSX. Again, if it's mostly street driving you'll pretty much narrow down a setting and leave it alone after that (until you go to a track and change it). You seem like you know what you're doing on the track, so why not use the flexibility that good coilover adjustments can make to the car? You probably already know the info below, but it's not hard to dial down on what you want if you follow this simple guide:

View attachment 155175

The next step-up would be this: http://www.kwsuspensions.com/ddc and I hope that someone in the near future will do a set for the NSX. I do not want to miss it in my DD anymore.

That's been out for awhile and I've been waiting for some NSX owner to try and adapt it. It's "neat," but I only see it as a nicer Tein EDFC with higher-quality components. Having an electronically variable suspension on another vehicle that I have to manually select, I honestly leave it on the soft "Comfort" mode all of the time. If I want to stiffen the suspension at the track it's not hard for me to manually adjust it and then change it back. Well, some dampers are easier to adjust than others. A continuously-adaptive suspension, on the other hand, would be pretty cool. I would like one of those!

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] I know of a used R damper set for sale. complete with springs, etc.

Someone should dyno it!

 

[goldNSX]

That's been out for awhile and I've been waiting for some NSX owner to try and adapt it. It's "neat," but I only see it as a nicer Tein EDFC with higher-quality components. Having an electronically variable suspension on another vehicle that I have to manually select, I honestly leave it on the soft "Comfort" mode all of the time. If I want to stiffen the suspension at the track it's not hard for me to manually adjust it and then change it back. Well, some dampers are easier to adjust than others. A continuously-adaptive suspension, on the other hand, would be pretty cool. I would like one of those!

Please not TEIN, I've never understood their selection of (overly high) spring rates.

Every other new product with old-school design looks outdated to me if every new sports car comes with them nowadays. Having the adjustability from the drivers seat is like digital versus old-school photography. You can't go back if you got used to it.

I was even wondering that KW came quite late with their suspension. But they have been selling well. It IS a really good suspension, I've noticed their enhanced grip level from day one and some have reported that it's faster on the track as Bilsteins but KW won't reach the built quality of the Bilsteins. Ok, they don't have to last forever...

 

[jwmelvin]

I really value all the comments in this thread, thank you all. I will relate my suspension experience, though I may have mentioned it in pieces elsewhere.

My first NSX was a stock ‘97. I tracked it a few times before I put it into a wall with a lapse of attention. At the time, I was considering suspension options, having realized quickly that the stock tuning is frustratingly slow to respond at the track (F196 R224 lb/in).

I bought a ‘99 Civic Si (EM1) as my track car. It had been raced showroom stock, and so had a cage but was otherwise very stock (full interior and only a rear swaybar and tires). I tracked it once or twice then, that winter, put on some Whitener Racing Shocks and a big rear, hollow swaybar from ASR. Dave Whitener is a (multitime?) national autocross champion in FWD Honda/Acura cars and sells custom-tuned Bilstein Racing Shocks for a limited number of platforms (pre-‘00 FWD Hondas, and certain Miatas and Corvettes). My car is 2400 lb with me in it and runs 650 lb/in front, 700 lb/in springs. It’s really amazing in transitions and over cubs, while the spring rates are way way higher that I would run on the street. The downside of Whiteners shocks is that they are not adjustable. You can change spring rates by ~50 lb/in but would have to send them back for revalving with a significant spring rate change. My interest is focusing on my traction-management and car-control skills so I am happy to eliminate that aspect of car setup from my duties. I have done some steady-state tuning with different front swaybars, including no front bar, my current config. The car is surprisingly fun to drive.

My current NSX (‘00) came with a Comptech Sport suspension, which I believe has progressive-rate springs with adjustable perches on Koni yellow shocks (F: 150-200 lb/in, R: 150-250 lb/in). That doesn’t seem much at all different from stock rates (196 & 224 lb/in). But the ride was bad in certain conditions like high-speed compression (e.g., hitting an expansion joint). I changed it to BC Racing dampers with Swift springs (560 & 448 lb/in). I like the balance of the car in autocross (it also has Comptech sway bars F & R). But I find it less than I would like during normal driving. It’s a bit harsh at times.

I have driven an NSX on KW Clubsport (457 lb/in?) a bit around my neighborhood and thought it felt a lot more held together. Considerable smoother than the BC Racing dampers.

I think that having a predictable, responsive car at the track is a huge benefit. It’s really hard to do that without high spring rates but the KW v3 seems to do so better than any other easily available suspension. My hope is that the Ohlins put together by SBG (or anyone else) could offer essentially the nice comfort factor of the KW and also good performance capabilities. I’m not sure I will ever meaningfully track this NSX. I’d like to think I could but I don’t think it meets my safety standards for a track car. So I’m way more focused on feel on the street. I think I’d go with spring rates on the low end, like KW (343 lb/in).

Hope that gives some sort of useful viewpoint, albeit not one similarly focused as OP.

 

[Honcho]

Hi Honcho,
My car is also a bit on the NSX Type S Zero Theme (but not limited to it as I plan to lose further weight). I have KW V3 on my car, and at your target budget (AS Motorsport offers KW V3 for ~ 2100 $), based on my personal experience, i would say that KW V3 offers the best of both worlds, as it can be tuned (if one have the skills to do it), but you can also leave it at the recommended KW NSX specs, and have a great suspension setup. This suspension was developed around the NSX, and tuned in real world conditions by KW with the actual car on track and street and also on a suspension dyno.
Remember this is just my opinion, and i admire the way you are doing things and your new NSX project! just decided to share as at first i was leaning to install the NSX-S or S Zero suspension, but ended up with KW setup, and I am very happy with it!

I was pretty much settled on KW3 at the start of this project. But then I started watching my old Best Motoring videos and began to feel the pull of S Zero...

The adjustability is helpful in the beginning while deciding on the ride height and maybe on the spring rates but most likely you leave it there once you've set it to your preferences. The only thing you might adjust from time to time are the shocks. I prefer a very comfortable ride (for a sports car) but would ramp the valving up for a trackday and would drive home with the comfortable setting again. So the adjustability IS a nice feature.


That is certainly true to some extend BUT maybe they were talking about racing suspensions (JRZ, Moton...). The adjustability of these is far beyond what a KW3 offers. The KW is preset to some extent (high-speed valving). KW even notes that it's NOT recommendable to adjust the front end very soft and the rear very hard or vice versa. If I speak of KW3 I always refer to the standard setup they offer which comes with 6 kg/mm springs front and rear because that's the one I've extensively tested when it came out. That's where KW spend the most engineering time on.
As soon as you change the spring rates you have to do it all over again and engineering time is very expensive. I can't evaluate their clubrace version with stiffer springs. A shot in the oven are variants of KW3 shocks with all different kind of spring combos because they 'run over' the engineering effort by KW on the 7-post rig. This would set you back to a time more than 20 years ago where aftermarket wildly choose a spring and +-matching shock and called it a sporty suspension.

It all depends on what you're aiming for. A professional (or younger) racer is mainly interested in lower track times. An occasional racer is more after fun and emotions while the track time has not the ultimate priority. Of course, there are exceptions on that rule...I'm not surprised that they recommend an OEM suspension because Honda spent much time and money in engineering. There's a video when they were on the Ring for the Type S suspension tuning somewhere, same for the Type R (which is basically a Type S Zero).


Yes, sometimes they have been 'adventures'. Been there, done that. Believe me, 75-90% is not close enough. I've sent Bilstein my shocks back and forth maybe 10 times in the last 12 years and am now at 95-98%. It all depends on the communication between you and Bilstein. It sucked in the beginning with the old (now retired) guy in Germany many years ago. But now the younger people are more customer friendly. But even if you give them all possible data, it's still a trial and error approach.
One short EDIT: Bilstein told me that a monotube behaves differently in the real world driving than a two-pipe-damper (like OEM or KW3) even if they show the same damping rates on the dyno. So you can't just take over the valving of an OEM shock to the Bilsteins.


Some bought the Type R suspension when it was cheap and some of them sold it some years later... It's purely a track suspension, too harsh for many also depending on the condition of your roads.


Maybe there are more options in 2019 if Ohlins is able to engineer a suspension with long strokes. But being a racing part they require frequent rebuilding. Bilstein can be rebuilt too but they are the most durable shocks out there.

And there are much more factors: wheels, tyre sizes, stabilizers...maybe in 2019 and maybe I can supply with some data from my findings.

That's why I want to steal all of your research. I have driven most NSX suspensions: Comptech/Koni (harsh), Comptech Pro (brutal), Moton Clubsport (amazing), JRZ RS (very nice), Tein Flex (awful), Bilstein (surprisingly comfortable), HKS Hipermax II (just ok). I was fortunate enough to have a local NSX friend that let me spend both considerable street and track time with his NA2 R suspension. Honestly, I thought it was perfect. I did not think it was too harsh on the street. I probably would choose the NA2 R or S Zero before the KW3, assuming equal price. I have not, however, driven the KW3, so I can't really compare them. Durability is a concern too- I've heard mixed reviews about KW quality/longevity.

This was the main reason i decided to go with KW V3, after speaking with vendors, reading many threads, here on prime, and on NSXCB.UK (as I'm located in Europe and roads have similarities), and hearing some real world experience of owners who had the Type R suspension (and also Type S) I came to the conclusion that it would compromise street driving (too harsh).

I get it, but this car is mostly for sunny days, track days and the touge.

Unless you are developing it for fun, in my book it's better to buy the full S-Zero setup (sway bars, etc. too) as tried and tested by Honda R&D with their 'unlimited' resources and experience.
You will know it will be a great setup and work straight out of the box. It will also be true S-Zero.

I had the full Type-S setup on my car and loved it. I was really confident pushing it. I have changed now to KW V3 for a ride that suits UK roads better and so I could lower the ride height for cosmetics.

IMHO, if you don't put on the full S-Zero setup, you will have to rename your build thread

Really good point. Hard to find used NA1 R or S Zero these days. Everyone has NA2 R.

I would go with the kw and just call it a day.

I'll probably do that, but the Bilstein option has me intrigued.

but you guys don't really understand Honcho.....he must do what satisfies his conscious....

[MENTION=4282]docjohn[/MENTION]: been there done that.

My conscious is telling me to build a bespoke Bilstein system. My heart is telling me to buy a S Zero used unit.

haha the road less taken tends to be the hardest....

Yeah, I chose this car specifically for the long road. Building it is the fun part!

The wild horses wanted to be ridden... I was in the same situation back then and underestimated the project. It came out more expensive than a serious set of coilovers. But the learning phase was more important. Would I have done it again back then: clearly yes! Would I do it nowadays? I guess no. The princessin no longer feels peas under 10 mattresses...

Care to share your damper curves and save me the 10 trips to Bilstein?

The Type S/R is a different conversation than the KW/JRZ and it seems you're set on the S. With that said... why the S? I thought this was more of a track car so why not the R instead?

Though... if it is partially a street car then why don't you want adjustability? I'm confused.. by your objectives but I also suffer from Small Brain Syndrome

S Zero, actually, which is the same as NA1 R. I have a F-150 Supercrew (on Bilstein 5100 shocks and knobby huge tires) for the daily grind.

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] I know of a used R damper set for sale. complete with springs, etc.

NA1 R? Hmmm....

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION]

Well, you have some time to figure out what you want, so I would take this opportunity to go to as many NSX gatherings as you can and try to sample the various offerings.

It all depends on how you'll use the car the most. 90% street? If so, I can understand the allure of OEM Honda parts, but my understanding is the Type S and Type R suspensions are overly harsh for street driving. I would also be concerned about OEM rebuilds. I've heard of quite a few leaking Showa Type R dampers. Hopefully you can find a shop to rebuild them, because you have to expect at some point that 15+ year-old dampers are going to need service... even if they are relatively new when you buy them.

I remember you were OK with the BC coilovers on your previous NSX. Again, if it's mostly street driving you'll pretty much narrow down a setting and leave it alone after that (until you go to a track and change it). You seem like you know what you're doing on the track, so why not use the flexibility that good coilover adjustments can make to the car? You probably already know the info below, but it's not hard to dial down on what you want if you follow this simple guide:

I found the BC system with the NSX-R spec rates (10/8) to be excellent on the street and very good on the track. Only real weakness was on high speed sweepers and after a few hard laps the shock oil got hot and the damping faded. But, to their credit, BC themselves said the BR was a 80/20 street/track damper. I thought it punched way above its weight. And their pillowball mounts were SILENT (including through 2 winters). I really would love to find a shop that could service the OEM shocks. If I could find one, I would pick up a R or S Zero set immediately. How hard can it be? They are twin tube shocks. Isn't it a matter of replacing the seals, oil and recharging the nitrogen? The shim stack should stay the same, right?

 

[goldNSX]

Care to share your damper curves and save me the 10 trips to Bilstein?

It would only make sense if you go with same setup: Type S springs (6.5/5), Type R + S swaybars.

In the end it was the best to listen to Bilstein and fit their standard shock on the car and start from there. They can do a comfortable and safe suspension any day if you supply them with all the data, no doubt. But after some time, you might aim for a sharper turn-in. On an adjustable setup you'd ramp up compression and rebound with simple clicks. But by how much? The trouble starts when you're trying to reach the sweet spot: firm enough but not too harsh (still comfortable enough) which is VERY subjective. That's what takes several attempts and if you're willing to go that route as a fun project, why not?

I've a second set of Bilsteins with the custom valving as a spare which would even be better to start with than a standard one.

All OEM suspensions are quite 'high' to the eye of a spectator. But there's a reason Honda choose it this way.

 

[Mac Attack]

I really would love to find a shop that could service the OEM shocks. If I could find one, I would pick up a R or S Zero set immediately. How hard can it be? They are twin tube shocks. Isn't it a matter of replacing the seals, oil and recharging the nitrogen? The shim stack should stay the same, right?

I really don't know if these mass-produced OEM dampers are rebuildable or not. You might email a few pictures of the Type S or R dampers you're interested in to Performance Shock, Inc. in Sonoma CA. Their website says they service a wide variety of dampers. They are making a coilover set for me now and are great to work with. Kip ditched his Penske coilovers on his race NSX and went with Ohlins TTX dampers from these folks. He likes his new setup much better.

http://performanceshock.com/

 

[NSXGB]

Think my last post was deleted for some reason??

Are you sure that the NA1-R suspension is discontinued? I can see it as available on JP Car Parts and for sensible cash. Although possibly 6 or 7 different part numbers? Worth an email...

 

[Honcho]

It would only make sense if you go with same setup: Type S springs (6.5/5), Type R + S swaybars.

In the end it was the best to listen to Bilstein and fit their standard shock on the car and start from there. They can do a comfortable and safe suspension any day if you supply them with all the data, no doubt. But after some time, you might aim for a sharper turn-in. On an adjustable setup you'd ramp up compression and rebound with simple clicks. But by how much? The trouble starts when you're trying to reach the sweet spot: firm enough but not too harsh (still comfortable enough) which is VERY subjective. That's what takes several attempts and if you're willing to go that route as a fun project, why not?

I've a second set of Bilsteins with the custom valving as a spare which would even be better to start with than a standard one.

All OEM suspensions are quite 'high' to the eye of a spectator. But there's a reason Honda choose it this way.

I am thinking of starting with a B8, feeding them the data and then going from there. Only concern is ride height. Is the B8 0.875" shorter than the factory ride height? In other words, is the maximum available ride height 0.875" shorter than OEM Honda? If so, I would do the B6, as I only want to lower 0.5" to 0.75". I really wish I could get a dyno of the OEM R and S Zero suspensions, as it would get much closer on the first try (understanding that the monotube piston will behave slightly differently).

I really don't know if these mass-produced OEM dampers are rebuildable or not. You might email a few pictures of the Type S or R dampers you're interested in to Performance Shock, Inc. in Sonoma CA. Their website says they service a wide variety of dampers. They are making a coilover set for me now and are great to work with. Kip ditched his Penske coilovers on his race NSX and went with Ohlins TTX dampers from these folks. He likes his new setup much better.

http://performanceshock.com/

I found a few places online. The Showa motorcycle shocks are rebuildable all over the place. I can't imagine the internal seals of the Showa NSX dampers are so magical and special that they aren't replaceable. What really needs to happen is someone needs to sacrifice a tired/leaking set of R dampers so that a good shock shop can take it apart, measure the parts and source replacements. AFAIK, its just rubber o-rings, seals, oil and nitrogen.

Think my last post was deleted for some reason??

Are you sure that the NA1-R suspension is discontinued? I can see it as available on JP Car Parts and for sensible cash. Although possibly 6 or 7 different part numbers? Worth an email...

I suppose it depends on what your definition of sensible is. Here is what I found on JP Parts:

Rear Damper Set (x 2) : 52610-SL0-903 ---> $1,739.86 each
Front Left: 51602-SL0-903 ---> $1,519.41
Front Right: 51601-SL0-903 ---> $1,519.41

S Zero has the same part numbers. Total for the full setup is $6,518.54

I love OEM Honda, but that is a lot of love right there...