What the "NEW" NSX Should Have Been?

[NSXBat]

People keep saying the R8 is the new NSX so they could go there but why stay here and keep b*tching?

Because Honda is searching for answers.

They scrapped the HSC (when people complained- not enough HP)

They scrapped the ASSC (when people called it ugly)

Now they are ready to enter into the market with front-engine when Lexus and Nissan have that covered already!

Dear Honda.... some of us still love you! We will fight to the last minute to try and save your from yourself LOL :biggrin:

You have shown that you can't make-up your mind,.. and have been way-too-slow to the table. Don't get lost in the heard: Ferrari, Austin Martin, Masserati, Lexus, Nissan... they've got front-engine covered from every angle.

Honda, you had something special with the NSX, but in the front-engine cars you are last to a crowded table :frown:

I'll hold out hope, because I'm a true Honda fan...but I realize Honda doesn't care that much about sports cars now...saw their TV commercial last night about how their new Acura can find the best steak in town, and tell you how much powder is on the slopes at Aspen. :tongue:

Audi R8 has not captured many fans, because Audi is playing the game of making too few cars. Dealer mark-ups and two year waits...make the car a joke as far as availability. (And jumping from a life with Honda to Audi is a hard enough step to take) :wink:

 

[WingZ]

Because Honda is searching for answers.

They scrapped the HSC (when people complained- not enough HP)

They scrapped the ASSC (when people called it ugly)

Now they are ready to enter into the market with front-engine when Lexus and Nissan have that covered already!

Dear Honda.... some of us still love you! We will fight to the last minute to try and save your from yourself LOL :biggrin:

You have shown that you can't make-up your mind,.. and have been way-too-slow to the table. Don't get lost in the heard: Ferrari, Austin Martin, Masserati, Lexus, Nissan... they've got front-engine covered from every angle.

Honda, you had something special with the NSX, but in the front-engine cars you are last to a crowded table :frown:

I'll hold out hope, because I'm a true Honda fan...but I realize Honda doesn't care that much about sports cars now...saw their TV commercial last night about how their new Acura can find the best steak in town, and tell you how much powder is on the slopes at Aspen. :tongue:

Audi R8 has not captured many fans, because Audi is playing the game of making too few cars. Dealer mark-ups and two year waits...make the car a joke as far as availability at MSRP. (And jumping from a life with Honda to Audi is a hard enough step to take) :wink:

LOL Bat Honda isn't searching for answers as you can see in the prototype vid they're heading for production. They're mind is made up and for the record the ASCC just went back to the styling table they never said they were scrapping the whole idea. Any confusion seems to have come from Media speculation with their "inside sources" that claim confusion. The Vid shows us exactly what Fukui said we would be getting. No like no buy but no mid engine is coming. Plus the MR is plenty crowded to and that's good since it gives people both high and low pricing to with.

Their were mid engine cars when the NSX came out and yet they still made it special same will apply here.

Also all these guys keep acting the R8 is so great so why is it hard going to an Audi:wink:

 

[nastinupe1]

Also all these guys keep acting the R8 is so great so why is it hard going to an Audi:wink:

Because they only made 25 cars for the entire world for 2008 and the waiting list is 12 months long. Thats why it's so hard.

NSX's were sitting on the show room floors waiting for customers. It makes a big difference if the car you want is actually a tangible object compared to something that you see on autoblog.

I have only seen 4 R8's so far and they are beautiful cars... just too rare. But I still want one. And if I can find one for less than $70,000 then I will probably buy one someday.

 

[WingZ]

And if I can find one for less than $70,000 then I will probably buy one someday.

I rest my case:biggrin:

 

[Silver F16]

The two camps would work but honestly is the second camp stupid? They should've been gone long ago! We've known for sometime that Honda wasn't going to do another mid engine.

That's a little harsh isn't it? Perhaps not everyone is the second camp has enough wealth YET. Perhaps the current NSX owner with 200K miles really wanted a newly revised NSX rather than a re-skin 2005.

Yes, it is difficult for some to hear differering opinions. That is what dialogue and forums is about, an exchange of ideas for us to open our minds and at least appreciate different perspectives.

Honda is going thru a time when mainstream vehicles are their focus. Hence the FR sports car sharing platforms with the next gen RL. I haven't completely given up on Honda. Times could change and Honda could one day revert back to specialized vehicles like the NSX.

 

[nastinupe1]

I rest my case:biggrin:

What... what did I say?

 

[WingZ]

That's a little harsh isn't it? Perhaps not everyone is the second camp has enough wealth YET. Perhaps the current NSX owner with 200K miles really wanted a newly revised NSX rather than a re-skin 2005.

Yes, it is difficult for some to hear differering opinions. That is what dialogue and forums is about, an exchange of ideas for us to open our minds and at least appreciate different perspectives.

Honda is going thru a time when mainstream vehicles are their focus. Hence the FR sports car sharing platforms with the next gen RL. I haven't completely given up on Honda. Times could change and Honda could one day revert back to specialized vehicles like the NSX.

How is that harsh? If they don't have the wealth why complain? Who complains about something they can't afford like their a would be buyer? The NSX was never cheap even when new in 91. Is it harsh for me to ask of all the people complaining if they bought one new? If Honda is considering the opinion of any NSX owners why would they ask those who second third or fourth hand?

It's true you can be a fan and there's nothing wrong with buying one used but if you don't have the means to buy one in it's new price tag move on and comment on cars you will actually purchase new. That's just logical. Why waste the time on the the keyboard with something that is not where your at price wise?

What wrote you about differing opinions is fine and we do go on forums for an exchange but when does enough become enough. I don't mind hearing you guys say you don't like it you've said it thousands of times , but this is now what's coming to market so why beat a dead horse Plus even if it was mid engine it would still cost more than the last NSX and you guys keep saying what you want Honda to do and to hear you but even if they did they wouldn't get any money from you because your buying it second or third hand. You're now just wasting forum space and taking away from those of us on this forum that like it and wish to purchase.

It's hard for us to discuss what we like because some of you just keep complaining. You know the old saying is "piss or get off the pot" you guys have pissed it up and down and from left to right inside and out. Can you please get off the pot!!!

Look at something your actually planning on buying and make comparisons and complaints/comments on that. If it's the Cayman cool , R8 sweet I'm happy for you and promise not to go on your forums and b*tch and moan about something I don't plan on buying.

It's all cool but enough is enough already. I'm not mad just tired of this endless repitition.

What... what did I say?

LOL


Quote:
Originally Posted by nastinupe1 View Post
And if I can find one for less than $70,000 then I will probably buy one someday.

 

[Silver F16]

Man, you are clearly upset with all the Honda criticisms. Is it hard to just ignore it since the comments aren't personally directed at you? For the folks in the mid-engine camp, it is a forum to share their common thoughts about continuance of mid-engine NSX. Or perhaps the Prime moderators can create a new category of forums for next generation Mid-engine NSX folks

I think you may have mis-read my comment about not having enough wealth YET. Remember the Porsche commerical where an 8 year old boy walks into the Porsche showroom. He looks thru the 911 and proceeds to sit in the cockpit and feel it out. He was obviously in love. He steps out and ask the salesman for his business card. Then he said, I'll see you in 20 years.

This is the stuff of dreams and what folks that are not in a position to buy one work towards. If this 8 year old boy walked into a Acura showroom in 1991 and returns 20 years later with enough wealth to buy one new, his dreams would be shattered because the new Acura FR sports car is by no means the NSX he wanted.

Ferrari and Porsche does a great job at being true to their legacy and they continue to build and improve upon cars within the same focus. Time stands still. A Ferrari 308 is now a F430. Same formula. A 911 from several decades ago has still the same theme as a 911 is today. Same for the Corvette. We've already talked to death on why Honda chose to change its direction and whether this is right or not.

I am not trying to rock your boat WingZ. Just trying to explain other folks perspectives. Not everyone is fortunate enough to buy a first Gen NSX new. For these folks, the fruits of their labor comes at a time when a new NSX will no longer be available. For their dreams to continue, they will petition and scream to death for Honda to hear their message and respond accordingly. It has worked before in some situations.

Years ago, If Mustang guys never spoke up, the FWD Ford Probe would have been the Mustang. Instead, Ford brought out the Mustang and the Probe.

So why not bring out both the FR sports car and the award winning "Best in Show" Honda HSC. Never say Never.

 

[WingZ]

Man, you are clearly upset with all the Honda criticisms. Is it hard to just ignore it since the comments aren't personally directed at you? For the folks in the mid-engine camp, it is a forum to share their common thoughts about continuance of mid-engine NSX. Or perhaps the Prime moderators can create a new category of forums for next generation Mid-engine NSX folks

I think you may have mis-read my comment about not having enough wealth YET. Remember the Porsche commerical where an 8 year old boy walks into the Porsche showroom. He looks thru the 911 and proceeds to sit in the cockpit and feel it out. He was obviously in love. He steps out and ask the salesman for his business card. Then he said, I'll see you in 20 years.

This is the stuff of dreams and what folks that are not in a position to buy one work towards. If this 8 year old boy walked into a Acura showroom in 1991 and returns 20 years later with enough wealth to buy one new, his dreams would be shattered because the new Acura FR sports car is by no means the NSX he wanted.

Ferrari and Porsche does a great job at being true to their legacy and they continue to build and improve upon cars within the same focus. Time stands still. A Ferrari 308 is now a F430. Same formula. A 911 from several decades ago has still the same theme as a 911 is today. Same for the Corvette. We've already talked to death on why Honda chose to change its direction and whether this is right or not.

I am not trying to rock your boat WingZ. Just trying to explain other folks perspectives. Not everyone is fortunate enough to buy a first Gen NSX new. For these folks, the fruits of their labor comes at a time when a new NSX will no longer be available. For their dreams to continue, they will petition and scream to death for Honda to hear their message and respond accordingly. It has worked before in some situations.

Years ago, If Mustang guys never spoke up, the FWD Ford Probe would have been the Mustang. Instead, Ford brought out the Mustang and the Probe.

So why not bring out both the FR sports car and the award winning "Best in Show" Honda HSC. Never say Never.

Silver? Man come on what part of "I'm not upset just tired of the endless repetition" on this at the end of my post wasn't clear? Seriously I read your entire post before responding the same courteousness would be nice. Instead you decide to start your post off saying "I'm clearly upset with all the Honda criticisms" When what I said was the criticism is repetitive. You guys aren't saying anything different and that's not discussion.

Prime creating a new category would be nice and is a good idea.

I hear the 8 year old boy part but that dream sounds dysfunctional from the stand point that if their not making it "move on". Seriously unless you decide to try and be President of Honda then there's nothing profitable for you to do.

All Ferrari and Porsche make are sportscars ( not including the Cayenne which is made by VW and Porsche just changes a few things ) If you were really trying to be relevant with this you would've realized that Honda has always stayed true to it's legacy in continuing to build Accords and Civics. That is their legacy fuel efficient fun cars. The NSX was merely a car Model and that model has since been discontinued. Same goes for the Prelude which they made for much longer and then discontinued. So if you think about it the prelude has more heritage than the NSX. Plus it's a business decision and their new decision is FR.

Are people not mature enough to say okay I'll give this new one a shot because I like what you did with the old one but "if they ask me then I'll tell them I'd rather they did an MR". Screaming at Honda isn't working one bit. Maybe if people don't buy the new car :wink: that will change their mind.

Uh actually the Mustang SVO is what killed the chances of anything but the traditional Mustang being the Mustang. If you're old enough to remember back in 1984 when the Mustang SVO ( four cylinder turbo ) was introduced people at Ford wanted to get rid of the V8 and go in the turbo four direction. Genius really as they would probably be ahead of the game if they'd done so and had all this time to develop and improve the concept. But well Mustang drivers being Mustang drivers complained BY NOT BUYING the new car so Ford decided it would be unprofitable. Best believe that if people were buying it old Mustang drivers could rant all they want but business is business!

See the basic problem is you guys say if the NSX had been updated we would've bought more because as it was you guys say it was overpriced. I GET THAT no confusion there at all , although I still believe they were a great deal for what they were vs what else was offered at the time. That point is proven buy it's still fairly high resale value for later models especially considering what the later models actually sold for. Now you guys have to see it from Hondas view point. The NSX didn't sell well why make another? Let's make something that has more appeal that will have better sales numbers. That's a perfectly rationale BUSINESS argument and that's what they're going with:biggrin:

 

[Silver F16]

My mistake if you are not upset and just as you say tired of endless repetition. You know I read all your words man. I extend that courtesy. I also hear the undertones behind the words. Nevertheless, you indicate you had enough of repetition. So we'll leave it as that.

We do agree on a new Forum category. I'm sure once the FR sports car comes out, a separate category will be created for the FR sports car. Then we'll have the mid-engine lifetime loyalist relentlesly shouting on the old forum category for Honda to re-fire the mid-engine dream.

As for how customers influenced Ford to change their mind on the Mustang, I quote this from Wikipedia.

"In the 1980s, a predicted increase in oil prices has prompted Ford to give the Ford Mustang a major redesign. The new design would be based on a totally new platform introduced to Ford by Japanese car manufacturer and Ford partner Mazda. But when the new generation of the Ford Mustang neared its release date, oil prices dropped in an all time low and Ford Mustang buyers expressed their displeasure in the style of the proposed replacement. The car was eventually released, not as a Ford Mustang but as the Ford Probe."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Probe


I know you like the new car based on the available information and you will likely get one and enjoy it.

With the entry to this crowded market, I am cautious on whether Honda can make a successful business case out of it. They are better off using a modified NSX chassis for Gen 2 NSX. This was the approach taken with the HSC.....until Fukui came in.

 

[nastinupe1]

What are we even arguing about anymore? Are we just bored guys? Is that it?

 

[BD]

This is the stuff of dreams and what folks that are not in a position to buy one work towards. If this 8 year old boy walked into a Acura showroom in 1991 and returns 20 years later with enough wealth to buy one new, his dreams would be shattered because the new Acura FR sports car is by no means the NSX he wanted.

If a person appreciates what Honda has done, they will wait till the production car is ready before bashing it. All the “could have,” and “Should have” talks allow individuals to present them self as cry babies. If EVER one from the complaint party bought their NSX new, I’m sure Honda would have present the world with another MR format car, but the demand weren’t there.

Ferrari and Porsche does a great job at being true to their legacy and they continue to build and improve upon cars within the same focus. Time stands still. A Ferrari 308 is now a F430. Same formula. A 911 from several decades ago has still the same theme as a 911 is today. Same for the Corvette. We've already talked to death on why Honda chose to change its direction and whether this is right or not.

Porsche has no Legacy, Ferrari does.

Took Porsche 15 years to make their bench car NA 911 S to beat the NSX. THAT IS 15 YEARS!!!

Same applied to Ferrari. Took them 10 years to match the NSX (360) and 15 years to beat the NSX (430).

Ever heard of the Phrase “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it?” According Honda’s spokes man, if the bureaucracy did kill the NSX, they would have kept on making them!!!

Imaging every Ferrari lovers decided to stop buying Ferraris because they didn’t make the F50/Enzo a V8 Turbo, or 550/575/599 a mid engine, Ferrari will not be in business. The passion they have for their car is all Ferrari needs.

The current generation does NOT appreciate NSX for what it is. Other than slightly underpowered, the chassis technology is still probably better than 99% (none CF chassis) of the cars out there today!!!

Keep the NSX and be happy.

Years ago, If Mustang guys never spoke up, the FWD Ford Probe would have been the Mustang. Instead, Ford brought out the Mustang and the Probe.

So what you’re saying was, Ford at one point get to sell 250,000 Mustangs, and want to replace it with the Mazda MX-6 based Probe? Where did you hear that??? Ford Mustang shares platform and Engine with practically every other Ford and they’re willing to drop their best selling two door passenger car in favor of a Japanese design car? NONE SENSE!!! I thought you would make a more convincing argument there??? Yeah, I’m sure every one of them wrote Ford an e-mail back in 1989 through their Apple IIe or Windows 3.1 machines… Yes, I was being sarcastic.

So why not bring out both the FR sports car and the award winning "Best in Show" Honda HSC. Never say Never.

Listen to what you’re saying.

They probably know the regardless how well the new car is going to perform, or how much value the car is going to offer, they probably wouldn’t sell many of them. Therefore, they should do BOTH? The development cost is far greater today than it was 25 years ago!!! A company’s goal is to sell cars, not to built cars because the engineers want to have a field day. If the engineers want to have a field, it’s called “Type S, or Type R.”

THE FUNNY THING IS, NO ONE EVER COMPLAINT WHY NISSAN GTR IS NO MORE THAN A FIXED UP G37/350Z? OR R8 USING RS4’S ENGINE?

You know what they say: "If you have no faith with your family, you should leave, if you trust your family, they will take care of you."

The key phrase of the post is – Hey guys, have some faith!!!

 

[WingZ]

My mistake if you are not upset and just as you say tired of endless repetition. You know I read all your words man. I extend that courtesy. I also hear the undertones behind the words. Nevertheless, you indicate you had enough of repetition. So we'll leave it as that.

We do agree on a new Forum category. I'm sure once the FR sports car comes out, a separate category will be created for the FR sports car. Then we'll have the mid-engine lifetime loyalist relentlesly shouting on the old forum category for Honda to re-fire the mid-engine dream.

As for how customers influenced Ford to change their mind on the Mustang, I quote this from Wikipedia.

"In the 1980s, a predicted increase in oil prices has prompted Ford to give the Ford Mustang a major redesign. The new design would be based on a totally new platform introduced to Ford by Japanese car manufacturer and Ford partner Mazda. But when the new generation of the Ford Mustang neared its release date, oil prices dropped in an all time low and Ford Mustang buyers expressed their displeasure in the style of the proposed replacement. The car was eventually released, not as a Ford Mustang but as the Ford Probe."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Probe


I know you like the new car based on the available information and you will likely get one and enjoy it.

With the entry to this crowded market, I am cautious on whether Honda can make a successful business case out of it. They are better off using a modified NSX chassis for Gen 2 NSX. This was the approach taken with the HSC.....until Fukui came in.

Eh to be really honest I protested too much I really do want you guys not to like this car and I'm hoping it doesn't sell well. I got my NSX and CR new for such good deals because sales were in the tank and I'd like that trend to continue with the next car.

Yeah the forum idea is brilliant and I hope someone on prime follows up on your idea.

Eh as someone who grew up in the Detroit/Metro Detroit area and having friends who had family working at the big 3 a lot of what was officially was said and rumored were/are unfortunately very different. During the 80's owning/driving a Japanese car in Michigan could get you put in the hospital. Remember Lee Iacocca saying "Damn Japanese"? Well imagine what the blue collars were saying and doing. You couldn't even park a Japanese car as a Ford worker. Having the Japanese make the Ford all American Mustang.....LOL Wasn't gonna happen. Mustang buyers back then were primarily blue collar and that can be a different mentality. They were losing jobs as more Americans started to buy Japanese cars. Unfortunately a Chinese man lost his life and was beaten to death in the city where I went to High school. He was beaten to death by two recently laid off Auto workers.

Oh and just so you know if Honda ever makes the HSC I'll try to buy that too:biggrin:

 

[WingZ]

What are we even arguing about anymore? Are we just bored guys? Is that it?

You Da man! We're arguing about something that isn't even on sale yet..LOL

 

[Silver F16]

Oh and just so you know if Honda ever makes the HSC I'll try to buy that too:biggrin:

If Honda made the HSC, you would get that massive discount at Acura by convincing us not to like the HSC.:smile:

 

[WingZ]

If Honda made the HSC, you would get that massive discount at Acura by convincing us not to like the HSC.:smile:

Come on Silver that design is how many years old now??? Plus what engine would they use maybe the 3.7L V6 in the TL and RL? Who's gonna wanna have a V6 sportscar with an old design using an engine found in the RL or TL. That's just not good pedigree. It will probably only make 350+hp and be RWD. You know everyone wants AWD and a V8 nowadays. I mean just to keep up with EVOs and Mustangs. Trust me you guys wouldn't want that car:wink:

 

[WingZ]

See now this is crap! Why would Honda make a supercar that does this:biggrin:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/15/rumormill-honda-nsx-and-acura-rl-to-get-v10-with-cylinder-deact/

 

[BD]

See now this is crap! Why would Honda make a supercar that does this:biggrin:
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/15/rumormill-honda-nsx-and-acura-rl-to-get-v10-with-cylinder-deact/

Hey Perry, it's OK, we don't need to convince any one. When it comes out, and if both us can afford it, we'll just drive it to our NSX meet and leave all those CTSC NSX behind...On track and straight line... lol:biggrin:

 

[WingZ]

Hey Perry, it's OK, we don't need to convince any one. When it comes out, and if both us can afford it, we'll just drive it to our NSX meet and leave all those CTSC NSX behind...On track and straight line... lol:biggrin:

LOL All while getting better gas mileage:biggrin: