What's a normal amount of turbo blow by?

[SuperSonic]

Is there a "normal" amount. I know the turbo has had a small sweat since I got it, but what's normal inside the system. I cleaned it out yesterday after I decided to put a gasket on the turbo to manifold connection. Needless to say a few questions came to mind:
1. What is normal. I've read a good amount of people get oil in the system, we are no different.
2. Will this oil effect the motor being sucked in? Every now and then the car smokes a little, could that be from the oil in the intake?
3. Lastly, if I'm seeing oil by the TB, and it's obviously been sucked through the intercooler, could this effect boost. It occurred to me when I first put the kit on it boosted so high then after 6 months or so, the tuner said it would peak and start to drop off. I have since tightened all the clamps and though have not had it re-dynoed, started to wonder if the oil in the intercooler is blocking the flow, hence the drop in pressure? Let me know what you turbo experts think.

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[Stephen@NCAutoUSA]

I don't think that's normal or it's not ideal. I pulled my air intake coupling off at the throttle body a few months ago to just look inside and it was spotless.

The cause could be a few things but I'd probably look at the drain line/pump or just plain design of the kit could be the factor.

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Then again maybe I have oil in mine too but it just hasn't made it's way up to the throttle body?

 

[doc_tai]

That's way too much oil, I think ur turbo is on its way out

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Too much oil can mean 2 things.

Oil blowing past pressure points where it shouldn't, AKA turbo gaskets.
Too much oil pressure which means your oil restrictor flows too much so that your scavenge pump can't keep up.

Turbo's need very little oil for lubrication and cooling.
Do you have the correct restrictor? I think MSR had this issue.

 

[E-Nough Logic]

Briefly go over what your oiling system consists of. Where are you tapping for your oil, what size restrictor, what turbocharger, what if any scavenge system, where is your scavenge system returning oil? Pics of the oil return system can always help.

 

[SuperSonic]

I'll have to get pics. It's the apx kit. It uses a savage pump, mounted below the turbo and pumps back into the oil pan. I put the restrictive piece in it on top, so I know it's there. As far as psi, it just the normal amount that is tapped off my oil filter housing. The turbo is a t67 style. I have contemplated just getting a new turbo and tune but that would probably also require redoing the cradle and what not that holds it. The amount in the pics is after about 6 or 7 k miles. (Not on one oil of course). I mean I've heard journal turbos can leak, more so than ball bearings, but I'm not sure about this. As far as the oil drain hose goes would it matter if it has a small dip in it before it hits the sump pump? I mean that's about the only issue I guess that I can think of as far as draining really and don't think that's it.

Below is when I first installed it. Since then I ran the hose up over the charge pipe so there wasn't as big of a dip (found second photo) But like I said, is that oil bad to get back into the motor? I assume not after seeing the crank case vent air going back into the manifold.

 

[joboo]

The hose is supposed to run under the charge pipe.

 

[doc_tai]

^^+1 it'll smoke or push oil through the seal for sure cause that what happened to me too, but Will was so nice and replace the turbo with no charge. If u wanna run the hose over charge, u have to use 90 degree fitting. too much oil go to ur engine is very bad thing, it's gonna foul out ur plug, poor fuel mixer or detonation and there goes ur motor

 

[E-Nough Logic]

I'm not sure which model pump that is but if it can generate a vacuum then it may be able to pull the oil without any problems, it wouldn't hurt to reroute it under the charge pipe, but the pump looks high than the turbo outlet anyway. When my kit was fabricated I had them make a small reservoir for the oil to immediately go into. My pump generates a vacuum anyway but a little extra security isn't a bad thing. Some also add a vent to the reservoir incase the scavenge pump pulls too much vacuum, I don't have this on my setup though and it's been working without issues.

I can't really tell where the oil from the scavenge pump goes back to. I'm guessing the oil pan? make sure the return is high enough on the pan that there is no backup from the oil level. When you accelerate oil in the pan may go back far enough to create some pressure for the pump to push against. Just an idea.

 

[doc_tai]

I had a little oil in charge pipe too but nothing like urs. This turbo been very reliable for me the last 3 years. Just took it off three week ago cause I told my friend I would sell it to him for 400 bucks when I swap it out with the gtx3582r( which I already bought it 3 or 4 months ago) and he's been bugging me for while now. With the new turbo all I have to do is weld two new brackets that bolt on the turbine and smaller vband for fit turbo I'm running.

 

[dawk]

Like others stated...the oil return should run under the charge pipe, unless you are using the stainless braided kit with a 90. I think the reason it is supposed to run under is because it creates a p trap. I have no smoking issues with my kit and I switched my oil feed to a 3AN with a 90 fitting (no restrictor). So far I have no oil issues or smoking.

 

[SuperSonic]

I will change this, though I think it still use to have oil in the pipes. I've contemplated a new turbo like the one stated above, but I have a list of stuff I need like an ACTUAL muffler lol. I gutted mine, epic IMO, tb/wp original from 04. So I need those plus if I did the turbo I'd need a new tune too. Tb/wp is like 1k labor, exhaust 1k, turbo about a grand, retune and fab for turbo 500 bucks. I don't want to drop almost 4k on just the turbo component.

 

[winreboot]

This sound looks too familiar...
I been running turbo on my nsx since 2001 and stop counting burned turbochargers after 4th one LOL, a lot of try and error but just want to share from my experience. I'm no means an expert on this just trying to help on the topic.

My current setup is: I run AN3 no restrictor to AN10 to electric oil pump on Pressision billet turbocharger with garret internals (journal bearing) I get no smoke and car runs great, but this is not a setup I'm sure on when monitoring the oil pressure on turbocharger as I see times the oil pressure goes below 10psi.

There is a lot of grey area as to the oil feed line, running restrictor, no restrictor or what size restrictor. All will say what works for them, but by the book the pressure should be no lower then 25PSI to lift the journal bearing and no higher then 65PSI or it will run pass seal. (this is what I heard but if someone has more accurate info please share) Seal is metal ring and it will not get damage right a way.. The only way knowing is to run oil pressure gauge on turbo oil feed line. Running the electric oil pump straight out of turbocharger is not good for all conditions. I notice when oil temp goes around 250F the electric oil pump works too good when car is on idle it will dry the journal bearing causing it to score it. This damage is not visible right a way and it will take time to score the bearing more but when you notice constant smoking or a lot of oil in IC it's too late. Turbo needs oil to cool it and to lube it, taking oil out with restrictor and putting powerful electric oil pump is asking for it on a long run. I don't know about BB turbos but same idea applies to keep them lube and cool.

In my opinion best way is to run turbo oil tank for the return with oil breather and then run electric oil pump. This will eliminate sucking the turbo dry. Every ones failure will be different so you need to find what the issue is before just replacing the turbocharger. Oil pressure gauge is good start on feed line and oil cooler is a +

Below are the guts from my last turbo failure. As you can see the scorned journal bearing, it took about 2 years to go bad. But it was running very well when it did

Now I'm running oil gauge on feed line with no restrictor and I don't like what I see. I upgraded to billet wheel turbocharger and car is fast like on steroids it pulls stronger then ever and no signs of any issue but when I watch the gauge on idle I just want to rev and keep pressure over 25psi and my next step will be getting turbo oil return tank.

Here is just my old and new turbocharger. If you don't have billet wheel I would strongly recommend upgrade as this spools so much quicker.

Oh, and try to use braided hoses with AN fittings just my 2c.

 

[foundry3]

If it is the turbo, as an option take a look at Comp Turbos with Triplex Cermatex which is an oiless centersection that will eliminate the oil risk/need and also extra necessity for scavenging oil. I have one sitting on a shelf I plan to run when I finish making my Y-Pipe and convince my wife I need to buy an AEM Series 2

Do you have any type of PVC system returning to your charge pipe? If so is possible positive crankcase is pushing oil into your intake?

 

[SuperSonic]

Thanks winreboot. And come to think about it, my turbo is about2 years old. Is it hard to rebuild the turbo yourself? YouTube has a bunch of videos that make it look fairly easy.

 

[winreboot]

Yea, there are turbo rebuild kits and even I would be capable of rebuilding a turbo myself but I went to a shop and had the professional do it as they have more know how and dissect the turbocharger part by part and can give you important info as to why the turbo went bed.

The cheapest way to fix it is to just change the bearings, seals etc.. but once you remove the turbine wheel it needs to be re-balanced and wear tolerances need to be checked. Not a good way to fix turbo for a long run. If you don't want to go to turbo shop and still want to keep your housing just get the turbo CHRA, they come pre-balanced. This is the center section of turbocharger it's little more money but less then entire turbocharger and it just as good as new turbocharger. You just re-use the hot and cold housing as turbine wheel comes pre-assembled on it. If you get new CHRA definitely upgrade to billet wheel.

 

[MetalSpikeRacing]

I had that problem when I just installed Angus's kit on the car. The first time was a very tiny piece of plastic stuck between the gears of the pump.
The pump its not strong at all, you can stop the gear with your fingers.

After I fixed that I ran into trouble again with my 40R turbo, The restrictor was not small enough and is was by passing oil. So I added a in-line filter/restrictor and fixed that problem.

Today I run a PT62-66 BB turbo the air cool one, It come with an internal restrictor. with that I have had no issues and beat on it at the track ever weekend.
Then again I run an oil collector which might be helping. Im adding and Iphone photo so you can see soory but its late and its all I got right now.

 

[SuperSonic]

Well thanks for all the advice guys. At the end of the day, will the oil hurt the motor if its sucked in? I didn't really wipe any out of the tb, just the pipes.

 

[Valhalla]

So this is why your car has been more of a crop duster? From following this thread and all the advise given, there are a couple of things you should do;
1) run your oil line under the charge pipe like joboo and others have suggested.
2) place a restrictor somewhere in that line to reduce the oil pressure and quantity so you don't lose anymore oil through the seals.
3) clean up the entire intake system after the turbo. A little oil ingested in the intake is not real harmful but it will coat everything and your car will continue to smoke. The easy way is with Seafoam or some other intake additive. Some say this is a terrible product and other say it works. The hard but proper way is to disassemble the TB and intake manifold. And while you are at it, replace your injector O-rings.

See you on the 28th?

 

[SuperSonic]

I'll relocate the hose, the tb itself is fairly clean. At least what I say from the pipe. How would you clean the intercooler? I've heard gas, water. Will water rust and gas.... Not sure I want to suck fumes into the car

 

[angus]

I'm a little late to your thread, but as other AP-X owners have mentioned, the line must go under the charge pipe unless you are using the A/N lines with a 90 - we went over this all before - I understand you have worries about the line being damaged but I have not yet had someone who encountered this.

You can flow test your oil system to see what the turbo is putting out for oil volume and then test the pump to see of it pumps more than that (if it pumps less than the turbo flows - you have a problem)

If your turbocharger has issues, you can send it back for rebuild or replacement - I am here to provide the service.

If you install the kit contrary to the intended method, you run the risk of a poor result.

You can clean the intercooler with brake cleaner and compressed air to dry it.

 

[SuperSonic]

Thanks Wil. I tried putting the hose above the pipe since it was still leaking oil in the pipe, though it may have generated more with the design that way. I have always thought the turbo needed a rebuild since day one but as long as the oil doesn't harm the engine, I will just clean the pipes out every 5k or so. Or at least the charge pipe. Thanks for the support though amigo. Out of curiosity, what does a rebuild usually run? I've seen anywhere from 250-400.