Where are all the Production deliveries ??

Even the valve adjustment itself is different than all other Hondas, as the NSX engine uses motorcycle style shims for valve clearance.
Do you know if they are expected to hold their adjustment well for 75,000 miles, or did Honda just not want to ask owners to spring for an engine-out service more often than that?

First engine I ever did a valve adjustment on was a 1985 Toyota MR2 that had shims. It wasn't a hard job, but it was an inline four with easy access. The manual said to do it every 30,000 miles.
 
Using shims means the camshafts may need to come out during valve adjustment or at least loosened to remove and replace with different shims. And there are 4 cams on this car. Modern Porsche with their scream 9000 rpm engines do not need valve adjustments. What's with that?

Serviceability is an input for the design of this car. I'm sure the serviceability requirements were modified for this project. No Hondas I know requires an engine out for a maintenance. For the NSX, they said WTF, the competitor does it and we have 75K mile interval versus a fraction of that for the Italians. They closed their eyes to Porsche. Beside, we farmed the engine to a company that spun out from Ford, so we get what we get.

I've had extended seat time in this car and for all the reasons I want to pull the trigger, I can't get myself to it. I want to be able to work on my cars like the Gen 1 NSX. I did the valve adjustment myself. I had a sore back after I was done but it is still doable.

Between the high maintenance requirements, poor serviceability, 3900 lbs of fat ass, $50K car interior, hit and miss dealership experience, and complex drivetrain with a battery that has a 10 some year life span, I pull myself out, despite the crazy $30K discounts.

What I rather have is a mid-engine sport car with a genuine Honda powerplant that screams, no more than 3500 lbs, around 400 Hp, something I can work on, transverse engine would work to lower cost, and a more upscale interior without the Honda Civic radio. I don't mind a single motor hybrid but nothing like the heavy 3 motor setup. And keep it under $120K, which isn't too far from current pricing once you factor in the $30K discounts.

573 Hp is bullshit. More power is not what this car needs. More power=more mass=more $$=less fun on the street. You read that right. There is more fun to drive a well tuned slow car fast than driving a fast car slow. And for the street, how fast do you want to go without having to arrive in jail.

In addition, buyers looking for $160K cars do not look at Acuras. They want a extravagant nameplate they can brag. Any 600+ Hp variant will drive pricing torwards $200K and result in a death spiral in sales. Honda needs to stop manufacturing engineering wonders that are market disasters. They need to get real with where their segment belongs. Believe it or not, current NSX is a rush job by Honda. This program was so delayed and when they changed to Longitudinal layout with dual turbos, they had to rush it to get it to market. Open the engine cover and see the abundance of wiring and hoses scattered like spaghetti. Which modern Honda do you know route and clips their harness and hoses like this? When did Honda contract out engine manufacturing to another engine company? Its usually the other way around like Sterling and GM SUV using Honda powerplant. And when did Honda maintenance become more elaborate than modern Porsche?
 
^^^^ 2016:biggrin:
 
^^^^^I pretty much agree as well.

The 'new' NSX is only another supercar among the inflation of these modern times you're seeing every Sunday on the road. They'll depreciate quickly, won't allow DIY and tend to die a sudden death after 10 years. The 'new' one will never reach that kind of aura the old one earned and still will earn in the future.

If you own and drive the old one
- you must have money (for the parts and the repairs)
- you're not just a poser who drives the newest available toy you'll substitute with the next toy after 2 years, you're a true car enthusiast

Buy a non-red new NSX and people think 'what was that?' when you've passed them. 'I don't know. Just a expensive car.' Drive an old NSX and every man at every age knows the old NSX and his eyes get wet because it was his dream car when he was young or he knows it from the Playstation. Til a decade ago and in Europe, boys on the street were yelling 'Look, a Ferrari!' followed by: 'Oh no, it's only a Honda...' Tempi passati. Never heard it again. They all know what it is and respect it to a very high degree.

If you have $150k to play with and your dealer has both of them in the showroom, which would you aquire? No question for me. When the leasing contracts end I guess we'll see more than one example of NC1 falling short of price compared to very nice and pristine examples of NA1/2.
 
In all honesty I really wish the new nsx was not a complicated car. I really like it, but I just cannot imagine bringing a car like that to a dealership like Acura to have it serviced... I really wanted to someday get one but then I drove it and was a little bit taken back from it all. It’s such a complicated mess of electronics when it’s completely not needed. Supercar drivers could car less about emission friendly vehicles and great mpg’s. You cannot tell me they made it a hybrid to make it faster...
 
You cannot tell me they made it a hybrid to make it faster...

The electric motors provide much needed torque at low ICE RPM. It works great around town and masks the turbos. If you drag launch it from 3k+ RPMs though it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference in acceleration time. I'm just guessing at the numbers, I haven't studied the dyno plots.

Is there a Acura Service Manual for purchase yet? I don't think I've seen that discussed at all on these forums. If it's reasonably-priced then I still might consider a used daily-driver NC1 as the prices continuously drop. It doesn't look like they have any plans to make a targa.... :frown:
 
The electric motors provide much needed torque at low ICE RPM. It works great around town and masks the turbos. If you drag launch it from 3k+ RPMs though it probably doesn't make a whole lot of difference in acceleration time. I'm just guessing at the numbers, I haven't studied the dyno plots.

Is there a Acura Service Manual for purchase yet? I don't think I've seen that discussed at all on these forums. If it's reasonably-priced then I still might consider a used daily-driver NC1 as the prices continuously drop. It doesn't look like they have any plans to make a targa.... :frown:

Yeah, that all sounds good in a brochure Mac. Unfortunately it doesn't stack up when put to use. Other ice turbo engines don't seem to have a problem turning a faster lap or in straight line performance. Do I care about numbers, no I could care less. But it does add VERY much unwanted complication to serviceability and the even more VERY much unwanted weight.
Some people love turbo lag and swishy sounds. I actually tip my hat to the new Nsx for drowning out all that focus ST noise. However, I love RWD over AWD.
 
I have told Ted he needed to nix the weak front motors and beef up the torque-fill rear which is the most performance aid at low boost low rpm's...IMHO the front motors are a hot mess after standard street speeds.He threw up a little every time I begged for evora-like rear seats..:redface:
 
I have told Ted he needed to nix the weak front motors and beef up the torque-fill rear which is the most performance aid at low boost low rpm's...IMHO the front motors are a hot mess after standard street speeds.He threw up a little every time I begged for evora-like rear seats..:redface:
Why do you want to toast your children?:biggrin:
 
haha but it is a pita to have to alternate kids for car events.
 
I have told Ted he needed to nix the weak front motors and beef up the torque-fill rear which is the most performance aid at low boost low rpm's...IMHO the front motors are a hot mess after standard street speeds.He threw up a little every time I begged for evora-like rear seats..:redface:

Have you driven an I8? I'm also looking into used ones as another potential DD, but then reality sets in. If people are questioning Acura's hybrid complexity and reliability, then a BMW hybrid shouldn't even be a consideration.

It looks like I was about 6 months late in my I8 pricing prediction, but you can now find a lot of 2015 I8's with around 30k miles going for the high $50k's:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/202367-BMW-I8-owner?highlight=bmw+i8

Will the NSX suffer the same fate of depreciation as a vast majority roll off leases soon?
 
yea how about that depreciation....:eek: and you don't see too many on the big tv auctions...
 
^^^^^I pretty much agree as well.

The 'new' NSX is only another supercar among the inflation of these modern times you're seeing every Sunday on the road. They'll depreciate quickly, won't allow DIY and tend to die a sudden death after 10 years. The 'new' one will never reach that kind of aura the old one earned and still will earn in the future.

If you own and drive the old one
- you must have money (for the parts and the repairs)
- you're not just a poser who drives the newest available toy you'll substitute with the next toy after 2 years, you're a true car enthusiast

Buy a non-red new NSX and people think 'what was that?' when you've passed them. 'I don't know. Just a expensive car.' Drive an old NSX and every man at every age knows the old NSX and his eyes get wet because it was his dream car when he was young or he knows it from the Playstation. Til a decade ago and in Europe, boys on the street were yelling 'Look, a Ferrari!' followed by: 'Oh no, it's only a Honda...' Tempi passati. Never heard it again. They all know what it is and respect it to a very high degree.

If you have $150k to play with and your dealer has both of them in the showroom, which would you aquire? No question for me. When the leasing contracts end I guess we'll see more than one example of NC1 falling short of price compared to very nice and pristine examples of NA1/2.

 
lets not all stereotype guys, don't forget that 10 years ago (15 years after the initial production) first gens were 29k all day long and were a good intro "supercar" it seems as if the wax nostalgic has changed that thought and now you MUST be a true connoisseur if you still have one and god forbid wanting a actual modern supercar at a somewhat reasonable price that isn't a P car or Audi. I had one (1992 NSX) and daily drove it for 140,000 kms up to 230,000 kms and enjoyed it, but got just a bit bored... and frankly it all just became a bit pedestrian.. (my opinion) it is what it is but when a Civic type R outnumbers you, realize you have a period generation "super" car and that it 28 years on. My 360 manual kicks in the pants a hella lot more than the NSX (that extra 130 hp and the flat plane oh my), but the 1 thing i miss is the DD aspect, so could you DD a new NSX - sure, do i like the looks of the new one - hell yeah - I lust for the black on black and in person it is just soooo nice. Will it make me less of a Honda fan because I actually now prefer the 2017 up to suit my needs and wants , nope and frankly it doesn't matter to me what anyone thinks... if i had all the money in the world, yeah I have more old classics but thats not the case so having only 1 4-wheeled toy that I can DD, has warranty, has actual modern creature comforts(like the 1st gen did in 1991) is important so that sets the direction for upgrading. to each their own..
 
Using shims means the camshafts may need to come out during valve adjustment or at least loosened to remove and replace with different shims. And there are 4 cams on this car. Modern Porsche with their scream 9000 rpm engines do not need valve adjustments. What's with that?

Serviceability is an input for the design of this car. I'm sure the serviceability requirements were modified for this project. No Hondas I know requires an engine out for a maintenance. For the NSX, they said WTF, the competitor does it and we have 75K mile interval versus a fraction of that for the Italians. They closed their eyes to Porsche. Beside, we farmed the engine to a company that spun out from Ford, so we get what we get.

I've had extended seat time in this car and for all the reasons I want to pull the trigger, I can't get myself to it. I want to be able to work on my cars like the Gen 1 NSX. I did the valve adjustment myself. I had a sore back after I was done but it is still doable.

Between the high maintenance requirements, poor serviceability, 3900 lbs of fat ass, $50K car interior, hit and miss dealership experience, and complex drivetrain with a battery that has a 10 some year life span, I pull myself out, despite the crazy $30K discounts.

What I rather have is a mid-engine sport car with a genuine Honda powerplant that screams, no more than 3500 lbs, around 400 Hp, something I can work on, transverse engine would work to lower cost, and a more upscale interior without the Honda Civic radio. I don't mind a single motor hybrid but nothing like the heavy 3 motor setup. And keep it under $120K, which isn't too far from current pricing once you factor in the $30K discounts.

573 Hp is bullshit. More power is not what this car needs. More power=more mass=more $$=less fun on the street. You read that right. There is more fun to drive a well tuned slow car fast than driving a fast car slow. And for the street, how fast do you want to go without having to arrive in jail.

In addition, buyers looking for $160K cars do not look at Acuras. They want a extravagant nameplate they can brag. Any 600+ Hp variant will drive pricing torwards $200K and result in a death spiral in sales. Honda needs to stop manufacturing engineering wonders that are market disasters. They need to get real with where their segment belongs. Believe it or not, current NSX is a rush job by Honda. This program was so delayed and when they changed to Longitudinal layout with dual turbos, they had to rush it to get it to market. Open the engine cover and see the abundance of wiring and hoses scattered like spaghetti. Which modern Honda do you know route and clips their harness and hoses like this? When did Honda contract out engine manufacturing to another engine company? Its usually the other way around like Sterling and GM SUV using Honda powerplant. And when did Honda maintenance become more elaborate than modern Porsche?

Extremely well said. Couldn't agree more. I too want to like the car, but over and over again, something really turns me off. First the hybrid and then the bizarre maintenance (engine out valve adjustment and silly number of oil drain plugs). I do believe you are correct regarding the rushed nature of the engine.
 
Ok, we get it, the Gen 1 has a firm place in history, and that's well deserved. The Gen 2 is too expensive/complicated/over-designed/unproven for many faithful Gen 1 owners, also understandable. Honda decided to make a tech-rich R&D platform that actually made it to market at a really good price point for a mid-engine hybrid supercar. $160k for what this car offers is really quite amazing.

If you judge cars by tenths of a second on performance charts, then this car sucks and you've said your peace. Move on already. This car was built to test a unique set of tech to produce an interesting driving experience. In many ways the Gen 1 was the same philosophy in the 90's. The 348, 964 Turbo and Diablo all made more power, but the NSX was unique and interesting. I for one think the same today and Honda still did a better job of keeping the price down than the big 3 and McLaren have.

This is supposed to be an NSX enthusiast site and specifically the Gen 2 section. I chose to buy this car over a slew of great cars on the market because it's something different and I respect what it is, a test platform with new ideas and early production flaws. I know many, if not most, of the Gen 2 owners bought for the same reasons.

After 18 months of ownership I still smile when I hit the go pedal, and that's the true test of a car's worth in my opinion. Sports cars are rarely an investment. They are toys and should be evaluated on whether they bring driving joy.

I could rattle off plenty of things I don't like about the Gen 1, but it's still a wonderful car. Same for the Gen 2.
 
In all honesty I really wish the new nsx was not a complicated car. I really like it, but I just cannot imagine bringing a car like that to a dealership like Acura to have it serviced... I really wanted to someday get one but then I drove it and was a little bit taken back from it all. It’s such a complicated mess of electronics when it’s completely not needed.
+1 but to be honest, all new cars of this decade are built that way. They're rolling computers with plastic parts designed to fail (they call it weight saving) and very limited possibility for DIY. You have to rely on the dealer. Cars of the 90ies are different and more honest, even though the Gen1 was a 'complicated' car for its time, DIY and keeping it on the road nowadays is still doable. I don't think you can say that in 10 years for any of the todays cars. It looks as if there's no way back. That's why an owner who practices a lot of DIY doesn't like new cars in general.

It's not that Honda choose the car to be complicated and unserviceable, all cars are that way nowadays. And I truely hope that Honda cars are still holding up better than the rest of the industry. One year ago, I could have bought a used Gen2 but I went with a new Civic instead and I had some other priorities in my life. The Civic is big bang for the buck, a four times lower expenditure than a used Gen2. If the Civic holds 5 years I'll be fine. In a few days, I'll have to go to the dealer for its first and annual service since a very, very long time. I'm not used to give one of my cars in the hands of someone else. If they fail it was my last new car but they are said to be very good.

If you fancy the new Gen2, go for it. If I was 20 years younger and lost my DIY experience for the last 30 years I might prefer the Gen2 over the old one too. :)
 
Using shims means the camshafts may need to come out during valve adjustment or at least loosened to remove and replace with different shims. And there are 4 cams on this car. Modern Porsche with their scream 9000 rpm engines do not need valve adjustments. What's with that?

Serviceability is an input for the design of this car. I'm sure the serviceability requirements were modified for this project. No Hondas I know requires an engine out for a maintenance. For the NSX, they said WTF, the competitor does it and we have 75K mile interval versus a fraction of that for the Italians. They closed their eyes to Porsche. Beside, we farmed the engine to a company that spun out from Ford, so we get what we get.

I've had extended seat time in this car and for all the reasons I want to pull the trigger, I can't get myself to it. I want to be able to work on my cars like the Gen 1 NSX. I did the valve adjustment myself. I had a sore back after I was done but it is still doable.

Between the high maintenance requirements, poor serviceability, 3900 lbs of fat ass, $50K car interior, hit and miss dealership experience, and complex drivetrain with a battery that has a 10 some year life span, I pull myself out, despite the crazy $30K discounts.

What I rather have is a mid-engine sport car with a genuine Honda powerplant that screams, no more than 3500 lbs, around 400 Hp, something I can work on, transverse engine would work to lower cost, and a more upscale interior without the Honda Civic radio. I don't mind a single motor hybrid but nothing like the heavy 3 motor setup. And keep it under $120K, which isn't too far from current pricing once you factor in the $30K discounts.

573 Hp is bullshit. More power is not what this car needs. More power=more mass=more $$=less fun on the street. You read that right. There is more fun to drive a well tuned slow car fast than driving a fast car slow. And for the street, how fast do you want to go without having to arrive in jail.

In addition, buyers looking for $160K cars do not look at Acuras. They want a extravagant nameplate they can brag. Any 600+ Hp variant will drive pricing torwards $200K and result in a death spiral in sales. Honda needs to stop manufacturing engineering wonders that are market disasters. They need to get real with where their segment belongs. Believe it or not, current NSX is a rush job by Honda. This program was so delayed and when they changed to Longitudinal layout with dual turbos, they had to rush it to get it to market. Open the engine cover and see the abundance of wiring and hoses scattered like spaghetti. Which modern Honda do you know route and clips their harness and hoses like this? When did Honda contract out engine manufacturing to another engine company? Its usually the other way around like Sterling and GM SUV using Honda powerplant. And when did Honda maintenance become more elaborate than modern Porsche?


Lot's of good points here.

I wonder if almost all of this can be attributed to the fact that this car was behind schedule after the decision to switch engine orientation and was then rushed to market?

It is a big disappointment that Honda farmed out the engine to Cosworth. Like you said, back in the day it was always the other way around. Remember when McLaren approached Honda to build its engine for the legendary F1 and McLaren had to settle for its second choice BMW! My how things have changed. But can't this be remedied in the 2021 model?

The issues of serviceability costs, simplifying the design of the drivetrain, organizing the engine bay, reducing the number of oil plugs, improving the interior, reducing the weight and even offering the car without front motors and WITH a convertible CAN ALL be addressed over future revisions. Look how the 911 and Corvette have improved over the years. All it takes is a COMMITMENT by HONDA to continue to invest in Acura and the NSX especially.

I can't imagine they have spent millions and millions, jumping in with 2 feet only to pull out in 5 years.

There is no problem that they can't solve with the right attitude and commitment of resources.
 
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All it takes is a COMMITMENT by HONDA to continue to invest in Acura and the NSX especially.
Honda USA or Acura is responsible for the Gen2 financially and I guess most of the design/engineering, not Mother Honda in Japan. I don't think Honda Japan will sort it out for them. They have other priorities.
 
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