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Who else is running a dry sump system?
- Thread starter Mark911
- Start date
Might be able to ask Cody what his thoughts were with this setup:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/176996-NSX-Dry-Sump-System?highlight=dry+sump
Love the approach you take to redesigning systems for your car. Always a pleasure to see and read your insights.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/176996-NSX-Dry-Sump-System?highlight=dry+sump
Love the approach you take to redesigning systems for your car. Always a pleasure to see and read your insights.
That IS a unique approach. Don't like the fact that the AC must be removed but otherwise a sound looking system. Curious where the holding tank is located as it was a BIG PAIN to get mine where it is/should be. The pan/sump looks to be a casting so someone put some big non-recurring money into the design to get a part that would be much less costly to mass produce. Wonder why you don't see more of these?
Eager for your move to SoCal. Can't wait to see/meet you in person one day.
A very desirable mod, but nothing out there is simple or without a bunch of trade offs. Mark, you are always in a league of your own, so I doubt you will get many replies to your question.
Good stuff! The lack of dry sump is one compromise I really wish Honda had gone the other way on.
That is EXACTLY the dry sump that I envisioned for the NSX. Who designed it/what pump/etc...?
I've seen many dry sumps out there for the NSX, but pretty much all of them have the pump in the location for the A/C, and did not have a flat CNC machined oil pan. I have seen a CNC pan before but IIRC, the pump was not on the back half of the pan like yours (and where I wanted to put one).
FXMD's time attack car has a dry sump but the pan is almost as large as Cody's.
I'm eager to hear more about your setup because if you have a functional A/C, i'd love to follow in your footsteps.
Billy
After looking at your photos longer, can you take one with the car on the ground? How close is the pump's gear and belt to the ground? It looks like it could be open to debris or rocks if the car drops a tire or goes off the track.
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Here's the page to my website detailing some of my design and fab of the system, http://www.mscperformance.com/OilPan1.html. The pump gear is higher than the A arm subframe so it's somewhat protected. I'm going to smaller drive/driven gears to increase clearence even more, but I'd need to fab some kind of shield/skidplate to make it bulletproof for those wheel off the track situations.
Mark.
I think Danny/autowave was working with bill dailey on his 1k hp nsx.
http://www.daileyengineering.com/dailey_engineering_home.htm
all the TRD built NASCAR motors use bill dailey dry pump.
http://www.daileyengineering.com/dailey_engineering_home.htm
all the TRD built NASCAR motors use bill dailey dry pump.
Wow. That looks great. What brand pump do you use? Can you add another stage for a turbo scavenge and are you selling them?
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It says he uses a Dailey.
it looks like the Cup car you drove.
Dailey Pump with air/oil separator. I'm told one of the issues Danny's car had was lots of air in the return, so I made sure to incorporate the separator. Haven't put it on the dyno yet but so far no foaming issues. I'd have to do some CAD work to see if I could add an additional pressure or suction stage. After I prove out the design I'd consider selling the CAD models for the sump parts for someone with a five axis CNC to machine. My 3 axis machine just takes too much setup time and it would be tough to make it economical. Since my pan becomes a loaded member between the mains and block (for stiffness) each pan would need to be tailored to a specific engine as I design in a +.005 to .008 positive gap between the pan and the block after the mains are torqued. I measure and shim out these gaps at each block stud and then final install/torque. This design gap might be enough to accommodate manufacturing tolerances but until I measure enough blocks I wouldn't want to take a chance of generating a negative gap.
What part of your pan to block needs that kind of tolerance?
The stock engine uses a girdle to tie the main caps together (as well as being the main oil galley). My pan does this as well but goes one step further by structurally connecting the main caps to the block using all 22 10mm pan-to-block studs and tight tolerance holes. This becomes an additional load path which reacts bending and torsion moments produced by the running engine. To be effective, the pan wall thickness in these load paths must be quite large and if not toleranced carefully can actually distort the block!!! That’s why all the main caps MUST be perfectly co-planer and why there must be a positive gap between the pan and the block (where the normal pan gasket would be). After the 6 main cap bolts are torqued I use a feeler gage at each of the 22 pan studs to measure the final pan-to-block gaps, remove the pan and use stainless steel shims over each stud to fill the measured gaps. I then reinstall the pan (using no gasket, just sealer between pan and block). This process avoids the possibility of inadvertently “loading up” and distorting the block and adds significant stiffness to the lower end. Pretty simply really.
The 6 bolt mains are already pretty stout, do you really feel the block needs to have the pan add to its structural rigidity? Is there a way to modify your design so its not astructural member as a compromise for fitting more blocks?
Not really, however, the shimming procedure is pretty straight forward and Honda by design flycuts the top of all the mains after assembly to make sure they are co-planer. Manufacturing tolerances between the top of the mains and the Pan-to-block interface is also probably held pretty tight so I don't think it'll be a problem.
