I'd get a phone number from Cody, he knows an aero guy that knows his stuff. see his Pikes Peak car
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And so it begins...the Quest for 200 in an NSX.
- Thread starter DeHaldaswerth
- Start date
I'd get a phone number from Cody, he knows an aero guy that knows his stuff. see his Pikes Peak car
Wow! If anyone could do it, my money and a lot of yours (mostly yours) is on you. Good luck!
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- Joined
- 4 September 2000
- Messages
- 213
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I will keep you posted as we proceed
I would greatly appreciate if you would pm me any contact information you might have. I need all the aero advice I can get!
I would greatly appreciate if you would pm me any contact information you might have. I need all the aero advice I can get!
Widebody to 200 is going to require A LOT of power. All I can say is make sure those wheels are absolutely perfectly balanced. Something that is a nuisance at 80 is a catastrophe at 200.
You got some cojones my friend. I'm kind of jealous. Best of luck.
You got some cojones my friend. I'm kind of jealous. Best of luck.
Subscribed and definitely want to be at the Flats to watch you break the 200 barrier
Factors: gearing and efficiency, aero, weight reduction, and environmental (humidity, temps, salt resistance, etc)
Telemetry: Various sensor logging for post-run analysis of component temps, pressures, etc
Aero: speed tape all seams (3M 425 is used on aircraft) or nascar race tape
Idea: Mount some go pro cameras to capture different angles for post-run analysis
Factors: gearing and efficiency, aero, weight reduction, and environmental (humidity, temps, salt resistance, etc)
Telemetry: Various sensor logging for post-run analysis of component temps, pressures, etc
Aero: speed tape all seams (3M 425 is used on aircraft) or nascar race tape
Idea: Mount some go pro cameras to capture different angles for post-run analysis
Hitting 200 isn't too difficult. Apples to oranges in many ways, but my old 300zx TT would hit high 180s (oem wing removed) based on rpms, not speedo, over a relatively short distance. It had about 450hp. I know it's an exponential function.
Hitting 200 with all the safety mechanisms in place, however, is not easy.
Hitting 200 with all the safety mechanisms in place, however, is not easy.
Subscribed. Very good luck to you Sir. It's a dream of mine to one day visit the salt flats and watch speed week. Love the film called 'The Fastest Indian' with Sr Anthoy Hopkins if you need any more inspiration it's definatly worth a watch.
- Joined
- 4 September 2000
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Widebody horse is already out of the barn; the way I look at it, it adds to the challenge. The Salt Flat experience is all about trial, error and development. It's the Hot Rod ethic, and I'm looking forward to climbing that mountain. We have upped our horsepower target to 600, allowing for the use of a 100 octane tune. We'll light that candle and see how she burns
.
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Although terminal velocity has never been my ultimate ambition, I am keenly aware of the importance of proper aerodynamics and downforce for high speed stability. If this was my goal and I had your resources, I would invest in some wind tunnel time to fine tune your aero package in order to find the proper balance between minimum drag coeficiant and down force stability. Things happen very quickly at 200+mph, best to be prepared for all known contingencies. I'm really looking forward to hearing about your progress towards this ambitous goal.
Widebody horse is already out of the barn; the way I look at it, it adds to the challenge. The Salt Flat experience is all about trial, error and development. It's the Hot Rod ethic, and I'm looking forward to climbing that mountain. We have upped our horsepower target to 600, allowing for the use of a 100 octane tune. We'll light that candle and she how she burns
I love your attitude. Am hoping for huge success for you.
One concern I have is if the NSX's aeros can handle 200mph as it has a positive lift in front. Power is easy to get but aeros is a little more tricky.
Steve
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wM4guvo6Ifo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Steve
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wM4guvo6Ifo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Hi,
about aerodynamics at high speed... my experience is that my NSX with only coilovers (1" lowered) and OEM aero
is glued to the ground at 280-300km/h... even autobahn corners at this speed don't bring surprises...grounded...
i've done a leg of 200km here, always above 250km/h....corners....up hills...down hills...etc.... it doesn't shake...
the wind must be blowing a bit high for me to notice it shaking the car and affecting steering...
stability at speed is one of the things that impresses me most on an OEM NSX...the faster, the more glue to the
ground i feel it
This obviously in a wrinkle-free-flat-tarmac .... don't really know how is the surface of those flat salt endless deserts.
My .02c
Nuno
about aerodynamics at high speed... my experience is that my NSX with only coilovers (1" lowered) and OEM aero
is glued to the ground at 280-300km/h... even autobahn corners at this speed don't bring surprises...grounded...
i've done a leg of 200km here, always above 250km/h....corners....up hills...down hills...etc.... it doesn't shake...
the wind must be blowing a bit high for me to notice it shaking the car and affecting steering...
stability at speed is one of the things that impresses me most on an OEM NSX...the faster, the more glue to the
ground i feel it
This obviously in a wrinkle-free-flat-tarmac .... don't really know how is the surface of those flat salt endless deserts.
My .02c
Nuno
OP you moved your 2003 Silver/silver?
Putting 2 and 2 together, I assume you moved your 2003 Silverstone/silver NSX to Science of Speed...... and snagged the white widebody.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...w-VIN-JH4NA21663T000037?p=1653311#post1653311
Man that 2003 Silverstone with matching interior is one SHARP looking specimen
Well anyway, interesting, subscribed, and wishing you the best.
Putting 2 and 2 together, I assume you moved your 2003 Silverstone/silver NSX to Science of Speed...... and snagged the white widebody.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...w-VIN-JH4NA21663T000037?p=1653311#post1653311
Man that 2003 Silverstone with matching interior is one SHARP looking specimen
Well anyway, interesting, subscribed, and wishing you the best.
- Joined
- 4 September 2000
- Messages
- 213
Here's a slightly less scary video.
Yes, its yours truly
- - - Updated - - -
Certainly reassuring and very helpful. Having the autobahn to do testing on would be a luxury indeed. So far, all of my high speed endeavors in the NSX have be pretty drama free. However, 2 Hunert is a big number, especially on the salt
Yes, its yours truly
- - - Updated - - -
Certainly reassuring and very helpful. Having the autobahn to do testing on would be a luxury indeed. So far, all of my high speed endeavors in the NSX have be pretty drama free. However, 2 Hunert is a big number, especially on the salt
Hi,
some guys do tests well above 200mph ..
HERE and HERE is a guy with his M6 having fun with 2 bikes friends at 330+ (above 200mph)
and you can also see HERE an S2000 getting to 280km/h
you can see that top speeds here are easy to do :wink:
I have one of my NSX at 300km/h, but on my cell with crappy quality...not on the net.
Nuno
Here in Portugal almost all autobahns are excellent....almost closed circuit quality....
some guys do tests well above 200mph ..
HERE and HERE is a guy with his M6 having fun with 2 bikes friends at 330+ (above 200mph)
and you can also see HERE an S2000 getting to 280km/h
you can see that top speeds here are easy to do :wink:
I have one of my NSX at 300km/h, but on my cell with crappy quality...not on the net.
Nuno
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- Joined
- 4 September 2000
- Messages
- 213
I'll put up a full, glorious expose, including photos, when I have a few extra minutes. Drove it for three hours yesterday and I'm still in a good mood.
I went out to the Salt Flats in late summer and took a few pics. A favorite of the 458
I was there in May of this year (was surprisingly cold and incredibly windy). Only got up to 90 - felt like at least twice that fast (so lifted...which was really disappointing as my intention was to find vehicle's max speed). I can't imagine doing 200 on that salt slush crap surface. I was on a previously-groomed section (significantly better than natural surface). Maybe if more-freshly-groomed and dry, things are better. I-80 was infinitely better.
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There was a Top Gear a while back where they did some top speed runs in a some muscle cars and they're terminal speed in a mile run was significantly lower due to the drag created by the salt. Good luck with your attempt. Here is the link to Top Gear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrKPPdTuk8I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrKPPdTuk8I
With 600whp, I think it's achievable. If your built motor has head work which allows raising the rev limit, even better to achieve your goal.
Generally the NSX is stable at high speed, however I've noted some NSX's with unknown alignment specs are a little twitchy at high speeds.. Make sure you dial this in.
The higher the HP, the shorter the amount of time needed at desired speeds. The less time at speed has lower risk of aero issues etc, but the higher HP also raises the risk of traction issues while accelerating(specially on that surface). The ability to raise or lower boost at the event may be a good option in order to find your sweat spot for the event/surface. Will SOS be with you? If so, they should be able to facilitate this seamlessly while you are there.
Good luck, 200 was something I considered achieving in mine as well.
Generally the NSX is stable at high speed, however I've noted some NSX's with unknown alignment specs are a little twitchy at high speeds.. Make sure you dial this in.
The higher the HP, the shorter the amount of time needed at desired speeds. The less time at speed has lower risk of aero issues etc, but the higher HP also raises the risk of traction issues while accelerating(specially on that surface). The ability to raise or lower boost at the event may be a good option in order to find your sweat spot for the event/surface. Will SOS be with you? If so, they should be able to facilitate this seamlessly while you are there.
Good luck, 200 was something I considered achieving in mine as well.
- Joined
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- Messages
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The tentative plan right now is to do a shakedown run (or runs) at the Mojave event in the spring. Because this is on a paved surface and because I am familiar with the environment, it will be a good place to test aero/power/braking/boost combinations. I am cautiously optimistic that we can hit our magic number at that time. This will, as far as I know, be the first time an NSX has reached a documented 200 mph. That will complete Phase 1 of the project.
However, 200 mph alone is not the ultimate goal; I have always been fascinated with Salt Flat racing lore, and the challenge that the environment presents. I want to run the salt and do it well, or at least as best we can. It is truly an American experience, steeped in Hot Rod legend and heroic figures like Ab Jenkins. While the NSX may be an unusual car for a salt flats run, the real magic of the event is the "Run what ya Brung" mentality and the awesome feats of shadetree engineering that have been achieved there. I would heartily suggest that you attend Speed Week sometime, or at least watch The World's Fastest Indian to catch a whiff of the spirit I am trying to describe.
The car should be ready for very preliminary dyno testing and street use in a couple of months. We'll know so much more by then, and of course, I will continue to keep those with an interest fully advised or our progress.
I appreciate the observations so far and welcome more. I plan to attack the project with optimism and common sense. But attack it I will. With the help of SOS and my own quixotic determination, we might just make some magic happen.
However, 200 mph alone is not the ultimate goal; I have always been fascinated with Salt Flat racing lore, and the challenge that the environment presents. I want to run the salt and do it well, or at least as best we can. It is truly an American experience, steeped in Hot Rod legend and heroic figures like Ab Jenkins. While the NSX may be an unusual car for a salt flats run, the real magic of the event is the "Run what ya Brung" mentality and the awesome feats of shadetree engineering that have been achieved there. I would heartily suggest that you attend Speed Week sometime, or at least watch The World's Fastest Indian to catch a whiff of the spirit I am trying to describe.
The car should be ready for very preliminary dyno testing and street use in a couple of months. We'll know so much more by then, and of course, I will continue to keep those with an interest fully advised or our progress.
I appreciate the observations so far and welcome more. I plan to attack the project with optimism and common sense. But attack it I will. With the help of SOS and my own quixotic determination, we might just make some magic happen.
Sooooo....you have 3 NSXs now?
My experience is the same as Nuno’s – if the car’s alignment isn’t out of whack, it’s totally stable above 180 mph even with stock aerodynamics. On tarmac, at least. I don't know about salt.
With 600 rear wheel hp, you should have no problem getting to 200 mph if your gearing is long enough. Fixed-headlight NA2s put about 250 of their 290 hp to the road and those 250 rwhp are enough to push the car to 174 mph. If you increase the horsepower making it to the road by 140%, that should be enough to overcome wind resistance at a 34% higher speed. In other words, 600 rear wheel hp should be enough to push a fixed-headlight NA2 with stock aerodynamics through the wind at 233 mph.
Since you have a widebody, the question is how much higher your drag is. NSX owner Yankee here on Prime did a top speed test of his NA1 five speed widebody with a GT500 rear wing. His top speed was 242 km/h in both fourth and fifth gears. In fifth, his rpm were stable at around 6200 (he had larger than stock wheels/tires). At that speed, a stock NA1 five speed engine should be putting out around 251 crank hp. If Yankee got 242 km/h out of 251 crank hp, that implies that his car had about 29% more drag than a stock pop-up headlight NSX. There are several “ifs” in that calculation, but it may yield a ballpark estimate of the relative drag of a widebody NSX with a GT500 rear wing.
So, if a stock NA1 five speed with 235 rwhp can get to 168 mph, an NSX with 29% more drag than that but 600 rwhp should be able to get to 211 mph – just like Ruf’s “Yellowbird”. Provided the gearing is long enough that the car hits top speed when the engine is producing maximum power.
None of the SoS widebody body parts look egregiously drag-inducing except for that big rear wing. Have a look at this test. If you just buy a used stock rear trunk lid for your top speed runs and get looooong gearing, you could probably go faster than Ruf’s “Yellowbird”. And then someone can shoot a film that gearheads will love titled “The World’s Fastest NSX”!
With 600 rear wheel hp, you should have no problem getting to 200 mph if your gearing is long enough. Fixed-headlight NA2s put about 250 of their 290 hp to the road and those 250 rwhp are enough to push the car to 174 mph. If you increase the horsepower making it to the road by 140%, that should be enough to overcome wind resistance at a 34% higher speed. In other words, 600 rear wheel hp should be enough to push a fixed-headlight NA2 with stock aerodynamics through the wind at 233 mph.
Since you have a widebody, the question is how much higher your drag is. NSX owner Yankee here on Prime did a top speed test of his NA1 five speed widebody with a GT500 rear wing. His top speed was 242 km/h in both fourth and fifth gears. In fifth, his rpm were stable at around 6200 (he had larger than stock wheels/tires). At that speed, a stock NA1 five speed engine should be putting out around 251 crank hp. If Yankee got 242 km/h out of 251 crank hp, that implies that his car had about 29% more drag than a stock pop-up headlight NSX. There are several “ifs” in that calculation, but it may yield a ballpark estimate of the relative drag of a widebody NSX with a GT500 rear wing.
So, if a stock NA1 five speed with 235 rwhp can get to 168 mph, an NSX with 29% more drag than that but 600 rwhp should be able to get to 211 mph – just like Ruf’s “Yellowbird”. Provided the gearing is long enough that the car hits top speed when the engine is producing maximum power.
None of the SoS widebody body parts look egregiously drag-inducing except for that big rear wing. Have a look at this test. If you just buy a used stock rear trunk lid for your top speed runs and get looooong gearing, you could probably go faster than Ruf’s “Yellowbird”. And then someone can shoot a film that gearheads will love titled “The World’s Fastest NSX”!
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Nice!
We did very close to 200mph on the speedo once, with stock body (18" in the back with pretty high tires). We have tested the speedo with GPS and at 60mph on the speedo, GPS was 65mph. Now with the widebody (and rear spoiler) on I haven't come close to that figure..
We did very close to 200mph on the speedo once, with stock body (18" in the back with pretty high tires). We have tested the speedo with GPS and at 60mph on the speedo, GPS was 65mph. Now with the widebody (and rear spoiler) on I haven't come close to that figure..
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