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Down Under Trackday NSX

Sorry, some of these photo's aren't great, or self explanatory so I will try explain where they are if it's not obvious !!

This is a shot of the main pipe running from the fire extinguisher to the first nozzle then it t's off to the engine compartment.
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This is the result on the engine side.
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This is on the back side of the engine compartment which will spray at a 45degree angle to the one opposite to give the top of the engine and fuel system good coverage.
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Like this
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Drivers side front - Lower nozzle - pointed at front manifold - Sorry for average picture, but too tight to get a good one.
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Rear nozzle pointing toward manifold - taken from under the car.
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so I fitted up the hand held extinguisher to compliment the on board one which will be used to cover the engine bay and then I can use the handheld to cover any issues in the cabin or to help any other track go'ers who might need assistance.

I've spent quite a few days over the last week or so making brackets and running lines from the main extinguisher to the engine bay so I have 4 nozzles, 2 pointing across the top of the engine at the fuel system and the other 2 mounted lower down pointing at each exhaust manifold. Hopefully this should mean it should cover the source of any fire as well as cooling the source of most re-ignitions (hot manifolds).


FRASER, I'm not sure about your rules package, but generally speaking, your on-board system should be prioritized for YOU, as-in driver's compartment, top-to-bottom. Some 10lb systems can facilitate 3-4 nozzles, but at least 2 of them should "flood" the driver......you can't count on even being conscious in a bad accident, & every second you can prevent yourself from being seriously burned gives safety personnel just that much more hope of getting YOU out alive. If you're concerned with an engine compartment "melt-down", or fuel cell fire, you should mount a dedicated 5lb system "back there", or you COULD run 1 nozzle off the main back to the fuel cell area, with the goal of "damping" the eventual breach into driver's compartment (not preventing altogether). I was going to PM this to you but thought others on this thread might benefit from its scope & purpose. BTW, I LOVE the tunnel & dash....VERY nice!
 
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Car is looking fantastic!

quick piece of advice my friend.. things like the fire ex. and other bolt on's you have to mount while assembling the car... try to mount them as low as possible keeping the cars center of gravity as low as possible.

LMK when you want this stuff shipped out... you are the man with the build and also the updates.

TTYS
 
Hey guys thanks for the advice.

The way I saw it was that if there was a fire it was best to hit it at the source rather than in the cabin. There are no sources that could cause fire forward of the engine so I figured even if I was unconcious and then woke up enough to press the button it was still best to put out the source of the fire anyhow. Covering me in foam when the rest of the car is still on fire didn't really seem to make sense to me..........

As far as mounting, I didn't really have anywhere else to mount the fire extinguishers. The main electric one is mounted in the passenger footwell as low as I though sensible (so the passenger wouldn't kick and snap the valves off etc etc)

The hand held unit has to be within reach of the driver for our regulations and that was the only place I felt I could realistically reach it.

I totally get the low centre of gravity issue, but in this case I think I did the best I could under the circumstances.
 
Hey guys thanks for the advice.

The way I saw it was that if there was a fire it was best to hit it at the source rather than in the cabin. There are no sources that could cause fire forward of the engine so I figured even if I was unconcious and then woke up enough to press the button it was still best to put out the source of the fire anyhow. Covering me in foam when the rest of the car is still on fire didn't really seem to make sense to me..........

As far as mounting, I didn't really have anywhere else to mount the fire extinguishers. The main electric one is mounted in the passenger footwell as low as I though sensible (so the passenger wouldn't kick and snap the valves off etc etc)

The hand held unit has to be within reach of the driver for our regulations and that was the only place I felt I could realistically reach it.

I totally get the low centre of gravity issue, but in this case I think I did the best I could under the circumstances.

Your thinking is logical.....only it doesn't contemplate a serious life-threatening incident....consider a wild, high KPH "tangle" with one or more cars, or an extreme "rear end first" event with a wall & subsequent upside-down resting position: It's not a stretch to envision your car engulfed in flames, you TOTALLY unconscious, or seriously hurt, at the mercy of safety personnel, who may, or may not be good at what they do. Still think having your body smothered in foam is of questionable value? I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, in fact it is precisely because I've grown to respect your approach & ambition that I've "amplified" my perspective! Fire doesn't play by the rules, & you can't afford to not plan for the worst case scenario! With that in mind, I would also highly reccommend using an actuation system that isn't dependent on the old Push or Pull design, but automatically discharges in the presence of cabin fire! FWIW, if you research all of the major fire suppression manufacturers suggested useage, positioning, warnings, etc. you will find they pretty much support my reccomendation.
Also, I WAS going to make the same comment as Ross (about C.O.G.), but even if you are determined to retain the same position for your hand extinguisher, I couldn't help notice it was considerably larger (heavier) than necessary, & although I can't tell details from the photos, it appears
the mounting straps / hasps might be a little on the weak side??? Again, not trying to be critical for no good reason, it's just that an extinguisher that size can kill you if it seperates from its mount during a high KPH event! I have personally lived thru a 160 MPH "endo", & had a battery come loose, & just graze my helmet....had its trajectory been an inch closer, I probably wouldn't be commenting at all. I wish you only the best success, & a completely "safe" racing career!......just felt an obligation!
 
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Thanks for the comments Dale, Don't get me wrong, I totally appreciate any and all input, I guess some times I'll research and agree and other times maybe not, I suppose that is what all of this stuff is about eh. I've already happily accepted your advice in a lot of areas including the steering column.. (what a life saver you were there !! )

You are right, I've built the cage with safety in mind rather than making getting in and out easy or looks etc as I wanted to cover the worst case scenario.......... I might revisit the coverage of the fire extinguisher setup...... at this point it's been good to just get some of it plumbed in, but I will look into a seperate system for the inside......

Regarding the mountings of the handheld, the bracket and clamps that it came with are what I've used, I guess I assumed (possibly incorrectly) that they wouldn't supply something that wouldn't be capable of holding on in a reasonable crash.

Also, it's hard to see from the photos, but to get the thing out of the bracket you have to life it over a lip at the bottom about 40mm high. The shoulders of the seats almost meet so the top is stopped from moving forward by the seats, so to get the extinguisher out you need to undo the 2 clamps and then raise it up to clear the bottom lip, then bring it out from between the seats. Sounds complex, but is easy and I will be able to do it whilst belted in, but it also means that if it comes look for whatever reason it would get stuck behind the seats most likely. It is mounted into 4mm alloy with 3 x M6 bolts so hopefully it's secure enough, but as you say I guess I have to think about it coming lose in a big smash....... some more thought will be put into reinforcing anything I think might be weak.
 
Dale while I think everyone appreciates your concern, what Fraser is keeping to himself is that he will also be packing one of these on each side of his waist and therefore doesn't need all that crap you are talking about:

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Well sorry for the long delay between updates, but unfortunately life gets in the way of such things as building cars and we had also got a few seperate areas of the car on the go at once so none were really far enough along to post about really.

So this post is really going to focus on the progress with the dash (very close to being complete now) and the bonnet (hood for my american friends) and the start of the work with the front guards.

We have finally got the centre console prepared and ready to be covered in carbon fibre (not done yet in the photos of course) and have made a small depression in it for the fire extinguisher controller so it is mounted nicely and warning lights are easily visible. We have also finished the cowel for the datalogger (also needs carbon finished) and so I've just sat the dash in there to give you the idea, but it's not fully finished I guess, but finished as far as the construction side of things goes.

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Oh yeah, the gear stick and handbrake surround....... I made up a template the shape I wanted as the handbrake and gearstick had to be quite close together to make it all clear the tunnel and fit between the seats so I had to design up a template to suit and then we got a local engineering place to laser cut us something to suit........ I think it looks awesome......... it's obviously just sat on there, but will get bolted in properly in the next few days to hold the leather boots in place also.

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Next big step to get done it the bonnet (hood) as it is now all one peice with the lower part and upper skin now bonded together and the custom ducting we've made to get the air extracted from the back side of the radiator is all finished too. Only part of the whole system still to do is the front duct from the bumper to the front side of the radiator, but that shouldn't take that long and we wanted to get the bonnet done so we had some point of reference for the front guards and bumpers so when I remove it to do the front ducting that it goes on back in the same place.

Mounted some aerocatches in the bonnet and it all fits perfect.......

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Next was to modify the front guards to they extend out flat to meet the flat bottom undertray we're making. If you look at the ARTA NSX you'll get the idea of what we're heading for.
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Only other thing of note picture wise was the mounting of the external fire extinguisher button for marshalls on the outside of the car...... I know I know, everyone will say "Oh but people will push it" but you can disable the master controller inside the car so as long as I remember to do that then things will be OK.... we intend to build a warning into the dash to tell me if I'm moving and don't have the extinguisher armed and also to make sure the airjacks can't be deployed if the car is moving as we considered the possibility of a passenger pressing the buttons to raise the car when it was moving and it wasn't a pretty picture !!! So those safeguards should protect me from my own and other peoples stupidity !!

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More updates soon once we've progressed with the front guards and rest of the bodywork. Fingers crossed the plan is to get started on the panel and paint work in about 3 weeks......... !!!

As always, a massive thanks to Zac for his efforts on the project........ no idea how we would have got there without you mate, I hope that the finished product will help repay yours, Steves and other peoples efforts on the track and we can all enjoy it.
 
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Good thinking Fraser, because this is how people do things. They:

1) Ask "what does"
2) Press the button
3) "this do?"

Then they sit back and wait for your horrified answer...
 
LOL yeah.......

I figured that, yes I am taking a risk if I happen to leave it on and someone is silly enough to press it with its big "fire release emergency" stickers, but I think I'd rather take that risk and know that in a big fire that the marshals can stop the fire easily, than not have it and run the risk of me being stuck inside with the car on fire.

Especially in NZ, not all the marshalls at casual events have fire extinguishers and even if they do, sometimes they're not large enough or they don't get to the right places so this way I think it gives me the best coverage I'm likely to get.
 
the car looks great,very impressive build,,,,but I've never seen a dedicated track/race car with an E brake..just another system that could fail/add weight:confused: and potentialy warp the rear rotors if used hot.
 
Hi John,

To compete in the Targa (local NZ event) http://www.targa.co.nz/ your car needs to be road legal, so that means it will have to pass a motorsport exemption (they let a lot of the usual road rules slide) but it needs an e-brake so that is why it is there.

They are very light anyhow, I would say less than 3KG for both sides including brackets so that isn't really a concern..... I get your point on the cooling of the brakes however we will just need to be careful not to use it when they're not cool.
 
Hi John,

To compete in the Targa (local NZ event) http://www.targa.co.nz/ your car needs to be road legal, so that means it will have to pass a motorsport exemption (they let a lot of the usual road rules slide) but it needs an e-brake so that is why it is there.

They are very light anyhow, I would say less than 3KG for both sides including brackets so that isn't really a concern..... I get your point on the cooling of the brakes however we will just need to be careful not to use it when they're not cool.

I think I have watched speed coverage of one of your regions targas..maybe tasmania? Looks like a really great test of man and machine.
 
Yeah I think Targa Tasmania was the most popular and really started the craze for the rest of the similar events and made them more professional.... our New Zealand Targa is getting popular now too and gets a lot of overseas cars from Europe, Canada and the USA also in the classic classes mostly, but it certainly is a test......

Just looking forward to getting any track time at all in the NSX, the Targa is a long distance target for us and the car is probably not going to be best suited to the event, but I don't want to set the world alight, just compete and finish the event.....
 
Mounted some aerocatches in the bonnet and it all fits perfect.......

we intend to build a warning into the dash to tell me if I'm moving and don't have the extinguisher armed and also to make sure the airjacks can't be deployed if the car is moving as we considered the possibility of a passenger pressing the buttons to raise the car when it was moving and it wasn't a pretty picture !!!

Fraser, good to see your latest,.....NICE touch with the Aerocatches!...Also like your idea of "warning lights" to signal Fire Suppression armed/disarmed when moving (might have to borrow that one!). I'm curious about your air jacks "warning".....Are you running an onboard air (nitrogen?) tank for the system, & if so, how does your rules package define its size, weight, mounting, etc.?......also curious about which jacks you chose?
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I have been in touch with a air suspension specialist at length and we've got a system we've put together with the help of Palestini who make the airjacks I've used. They have 300mm of extension so give a good amount of clearance and don't have a return spring so are simple internally also.

They operate happily at 150-200psi so although I could use nitrogen, there's no need to add complication so we're just going for a mini compressor that can keep the onboard 3 gallon aluminium tank charged up easily and will hold enough pressure to get the car up and down at least 2-3 times before it will need to charge back up again (150-200psi is only 90 seconds to recharge anyhow).

The tank itself is less than 3kg and the pump less than 3kg so not heavy and to be honest all of that weight is going to be on the floor in the front of the car and that's where any weight I add needs to be anyway based on the previous balance I saw when we had it on the scales so that's all good in my book. Airjacks themselves are about 1KG each and lines are plastic so minimal weight there. All in all, I think 15KG total and I'm more than happy to add that weight in the interest of ease of servicing in the pits considering it's so low it's not possible to get regular jacks underneath the car without ramps to put the car on in the first place and with the flat bottom it makes it even harder so this has multiple benefits.

The manifold that runs off the main tank is electronic so we can run a circuit into the datalogger and Racepak smartwire so that it's not powered when there is vehicle speed so there's no chance of any mishaps !!! We also have some valves on the exhaust side of the system so that when we lower it, it doesn't just hit the floor, we can control how slow it drops and we can also control the speed of front to rear on the way up as of course the rear will have more to lift than the front so we can control the up speed on front to rear too so it comes up together.

There are no rules regarding compressed airtanks although I was surprised about that as a bad impact could puncture one and make a hell of a mess, but it will be mounted well back towards the front firewall so it should be well protected in such a high speed frontal, well as safe as it's going to get.

If you want to get some Palestini airjacks then talk to Jonothan at Aurora Motorsport as he's been talking to my business partner about the supply of our airjacks and he's a great guy. The airtank setup and all of the other stuff came from a seperate guy in Texas I think he is. The airjack kit comes with airjacks, pipes, connectors and safety stands and then the compressor, tank, manifold and valves come from someone else.
 
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There are no rules regarding compressed airtanks although I was surprised about that as a bad impact could puncture one and make a hell of a mess, but it will be mounted well back towards the front firewall so it should be well protected in such a high speed frontal, well as safe as it's going to get.

If you want to get some Palestini airjacks then talk to Jonothan at Aurora Motorsport as he's been talking to my business partner about the supply of our airjacks and he's a great guy.

Thanks,....I too am a little surprised about the silence on the subject (in your rules package).....only other suggestion is to fit a temperature-sensitive bleed-off valve on the tank (in case of fire).....& obviously, build a little surround for the bottle.

Your choice of the Palestini jacks is a good one......I met those guys, & played around with their demo-jacks @ PRI show, & was very impressed with the build quality! Unfortunately, I had already designed my jack mounting system around some old Roush Racing Trans-Am jacks, which I picked up very reasonable.

FYI, the reason most racing jacks operate around 350 psi isn't because they won't lift the car @ 200 psi......it's really about how quickly they lift the car.....as-in pit stops, where even a half second means a lot.....& the nitrogen is drier, which means more efficient compression because you're not trying to compress water.
 
Yeah understand about the nitrogen thing....... spoke to a racing mate who says their Porsche GT3 car only uses 200PSI and gets off the ground pretty well so it was good enough for me. I couldn't care less if it takes 30 seconds to be honest and it's a lot less hassle using air over nitrogen for me too so although not ideal for some it suits us down to the ground.
 
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Good thinking Fraser, because this is how people do things. They:

1) Ask "what does"
2) Press the button
3) "this do?"

Then they sit back and wait for your horrified answer...

In the cockpit we have little spring mounted clear covers (guarded buttons) for all the firex discharge buttons. Very easy to open with one finger but prevents you from accidentally bumping it or pressing it. Or little redneck kids with mullets that make a b-line into the cockpit while yelling "give me them buttons". :rolleyes:

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Well a rather frustrating couple of days (just because you seem to work your arse off and don't seem to have much to show for it) but in fact today is one of those milestone days because apart from the door skins (which are going to be very special) the interior is officially finished. I've hopefully bolted it in for the last time in the forseeable future. I have installed all of the custom wiring that I've been working on for the electric windows and mirrors and also installed the second fire extinguisher button and the tilton remote brake bias adjuster as well.

I've trimmed the data logger shroud and bolted that into place and Zac has tidied up the other parts of the dash. I then drilled and bolted the centre panel in place as well which ties all of the parts of the dash and centre tunnel together. Photo's make it look dirty, but it's just dusty from some other sanding on the outside we were doing at the time !! :)

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For some who thought the gearstick was too close to the handbrake I took two pictures, the first is of the gearstick in first gear and the second in reverse so you can see there is plenty of room !

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On the outside we've started making some major adjustments to the front guards to tie them into the whole look how we wanted and also they were quite a rough fit in places (which we knew as they weren't sold as mint examples) but there's still a fair bit of work for Zac to get them how we'd like, but we've got another day attacking them tomorrow so should be in a better state tomorrow, but thought it would be good for people to see some examples of just what is needed to get the right look we're aiming for !! Thank god for friends like Zac who are wizards with fibreglass !!! I'd have given up by now !

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This is where we are at with the rear skirts too. The inside of the lower tunnel part will be cut out eventually so it's open properly.

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As always, will post more updates when they get to a level that it's easy to tell we've done something :D
 
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