Dave what about doing the Zanardi wheel pattern in 17 and 18?
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I can make forged 02+ replicas in 17/18 stagger
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
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Take a poll!!!!
'Survey says.....'
'Survey says.....'
It's true, 18x10 will match better with 17x8 if you are going to go with 215/265 stagger combo. 17x7.5 and 18x9.5 are better matched in the same respect if you want to do 18x9.5 in the rear.
If you have an opportunity to make a perfect set of 02+ style rims, then matching the rim width with popular tire widths is a must. Not many people go with 255/35/18, nor is that size as popular/abundant. Also if you prefer 255/35/18, then you can go with 205/40/17 to maintained that 2 inch or 50mm stagger.
People have to keep in mind that rim width will not widen or shorten tire width, especially if we are talking about low profile tires. Also you should not be considering a 17/18 combo if you are not lowered by minimum an inch. Also the rather conservative offsets would not clear BBK kits and be wasteful in this venture. It should be a sin to keep the NSX stock height either way unless you are on stock wheels...
If you have an opportunity to make a perfect set of 02+ style rims, then matching the rim width with popular tire widths is a must. Not many people go with 255/35/18, nor is that size as popular/abundant. Also if you prefer 255/35/18, then you can go with 205/40/17 to maintained that 2 inch or 50mm stagger.
People have to keep in mind that rim width will not widen or shorten tire width, especially if we are talking about low profile tires. Also you should not be considering a 17/18 combo if you are not lowered by minimum an inch. Also the rather conservative offsets would not clear BBK kits and be wasteful in this venture. It should be a sin to keep the NSX stock height either way unless you are on stock wheels...
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+1. This could be a winner, if we can change the offsets a little they may look like Lexus LFA Nurburgring edition:
Dave, if you can make them then I will buy a set just to have and put on every now and then.
You can a Zanardi looking style of wheel in the aftermarket. It is not nearly as desired overall as the 02+ wheel shape.
Also this is far from a done deal. I will wait for the manufacturer to get back to me with pricing and quantity requirements before I start getting into polls between 9.5 and 10.
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One other thing.... I am only trying to be helpful to the community. I have too many things going on right now, including work I am doing on my stereo project. If there's someone else following this thread and feels as if I am taking something away from them, be my guest to PM me and let me know. I am not trying to steal sales away from anyone, I am not planning on doing this to make money. I don't want anyone to say they planned to build this and T2GO took their deal away. I simply made an accidental contact and am following up.
Also this is far from a done deal. I will wait for the manufacturer to get back to me with pricing and quantity requirements before I start getting into polls between 9.5 and 10.
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One other thing.... I am only trying to be helpful to the community. I have too many things going on right now, including work I am doing on my stereo project. If there's someone else following this thread and feels as if I am taking something away from them, be my guest to PM me and let me know. I am not trying to steal sales away from anyone, I am not planning on doing this to make money. I don't want anyone to say they planned to build this and T2GO took their deal away. I simply made an accidental contact and am following up.
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I wouldn't be opposed to 17x7.5 +38 and 19x9.5 +28 if it would keep the weight down. Maintaining that 2 inch or 50 mm stagger is important IMO. However, a 12mm or 1/2 inch difference in rim width usually means less than 1 lb difference for most wheel designs...
Absolutely NOT true. 255/35-18 is a very popular rear size, especially among those with the '94-05 NSX, for which it's the best match for the TCS. The 265/35-18 size is more popular with the '91-93 NSX, for the same reason. There are plenty of NSX's rolling around using both these rear tire sizes.
What are you basing that opinion on? I can see the tire stagger being important but why the wheel stagger? Ultimately it is the tire that touches the ground, and it is best to make the wheel fit the tire not get a tire to fit the wheel. Just because the front is a 7 up front and I go to an 8, doesn't mean that Because the rear is a 9 I should go to a 10. The more OEM stagger difference as ken pointed out for tires, is 215/255 for post 94 cars and 215/265 for the older cars. The best wheel to fit BOTH tire sizes and to make it within a middle range of both is 9.5.
Explain to me why we should keep a wheel stagger the same instead of the more important tire stagger if I am not understanding something.
Given your logic though, the ratio of 91-93 NSX owners are much higher compared to 94+ owners based on the production numbers. I have ran 205/265 stagger before to better match available rim width for a particular set of wheels on my old 95 before without any TCS issues what so ever for almost 2 years (obviously for cosmetic purposes versus ultimate performance). I'm still willing to bet 265/35/18 is more popular than 255/35/18 among the NSX crowd, even among the 94-01 owners.
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Don't you think wheel stagger should match the tire stagger in a perfect world? You obviously have control of the situation this time around so why not strive for it? It's not like we are choosing from a pre-determined size/offset that is available to the mass public. This set is designed specifically for the NSX. Let the S2000s, MR2s and other possible cars that may desire these wheels complain about our fitment choice for once.
My question is why do you need 17x8 upfront if all you can fit is a 215 without rubbing? Wouldn't 17x7.5 be in the middle range (because how many actually run 17x8.5)? 17x7.5 and even 17x7 has proven to be adequate for the 215. I would be fine with 17x7.5 and 18x9.5 vs 17x8 and 18x9.5. The perfectionist in all of us should understand the matching tire width to matching rim width stagger. It would just be aesthetically and mathematically unpleasing to see a slightly stretched 215 on an 8 inch rim and a squared off 265 on the 9.5. I'd rather have the front match in squareness with the rear if this is the case.
Also I don't see how 10 inches in the rear is off putting if you are going with 8 inches in the front. Somehow an extra 12 mm (usually less than the width of the pinky nail) is too much because it has broken the 10 inch barrier?
With all of that said, I would simply be satisfied with any 17/18 version of the 02+ rims that were not more than ~22 lbs max per wheel.
Yes, a 17x7.5 is a consideration, but some guys run 235 front for track tires. An 8" satisfies both tires. A 7.5 is under the limit of a 235. I'm not totally opposed to the 8/10 necessarily, I am just trying to get the absolute best solution since who knows when we can do this again. I think the 7.5/9.5 being "a better match" than 8/9.5 is nothing but psychological. I am not seeing a mathematical reason for it.
Hey I am the one that just sold 35 sets of Advan RSII's so I talked to a lot of people. I think the reason there are a lot of 265's out there is because a 255 would look really stretched on a 10" wheel. 9.5 was not available. That's the major reason. A 255 is a closer fit to OEM and if there was a 9.5" wheel, we would see a lot of 255's out there. I chose a 9" wheel, I wanted the lightest combo possible and I got my entire wheel/tire combo weight under NSX-R wheel weights that were SMALLER. That's quite a feat and beneficial IMO. There is a 2 pound difference between a 9"/255 setup and a 10"/265 setup. And my tires in the back look great because my offset is 25, there really is no visual difference between it and a 265 on a 10 inch at an offset of 35.
Hey I am the one that just sold 35 sets of Advan RSII's so I talked to a lot of people. I think the reason there are a lot of 265's out there is because a 255 would look really stretched on a 10" wheel. 9.5 was not available. That's the major reason. A 255 is a closer fit to OEM and if there was a 9.5" wheel, we would see a lot of 255's out there. I chose a 9" wheel, I wanted the lightest combo possible and I got my entire wheel/tire combo weight under NSX-R wheel weights that were SMALLER. That's quite a feat and beneficial IMO. There is a 2 pound difference between a 9"/255 setup and a 10"/265 setup. And my tires in the back look great because my offset is 25, there really is no visual difference between it and a 265 on a 10 inch at an offset of 35.
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Let's do this, I am in.
TURBO, the stretch on with the 255 on a 10 inch is the same as the 215 on an 8 inch!
10 inches = 254 mm +25 mm = 279 mm
9.5 inches = 241 mm +25 mm = 267 mm
8 inches = 203 mm +25 mm = 229 mm
7.5 inches = 191 mm +25 mm =216 mm
(add an extra inch for mounting purposes for all rims) The math is there. Intermixing the 9.5 and 8.0 will only leave a 38 mm stagger. If you go with 9.5/8 stagger, then everyone will have to go 255 to match it better because there is no 225 to match the 40 mm difference. If they want to go 265 in the rear, they really cannot do 225/40/17 to match the 40mm. I know it's pretty anal, but 17x8 and 18x10 would be the better matched set or 17x7.5 or 18x9.5 which is still wider than all stock sizes.
The other reason the 265/35/18 size is desirable is because the 25.3~ diameter fills the the rear wheel well better than the a 25 inch diameter. The rear fender wheel well on the NSX is much more than an inch larger than the front fender diameter.
10 inches = 254 mm +25 mm = 279 mm
9.5 inches = 241 mm +25 mm = 267 mm
8 inches = 203 mm +25 mm = 229 mm
7.5 inches = 191 mm +25 mm =216 mm
(add an extra inch for mounting purposes for all rims) The math is there. Intermixing the 9.5 and 8.0 will only leave a 38 mm stagger. If you go with 9.5/8 stagger, then everyone will have to go 255 to match it better because there is no 225 to match the 40 mm difference. If they want to go 265 in the rear, they really cannot do 225/40/17 to match the 40mm. I know it's pretty anal, but 17x8 and 18x10 would be the better matched set or 17x7.5 or 18x9.5 which is still wider than all stock sizes.
The other reason the 265/35/18 size is desirable is because the 25.3~ diameter fills the the rear wheel well better than the a 25 inch diameter. The rear fender wheel well on the NSX is much more than an inch larger than the front fender diameter.
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Can you explain that math? what are your second and third numbers? I don't quite get what you are saying up there.
Are you trying to tell me that you can see a .3 inch difference on the INSIDE of the wheel well? Because the outside will look the same as I compensated with the ET.
Lol, I'm just being anal. AND yes, I can tell the difference between a 265 and 255 diameter *in person. If you look from the side view, the wheel gap between the fender and tire will be noticeably different between the two. If one has coil-overs, one can lower the rear more to compensate the difference but then one would mess up the rake. The same can be said for a 205 and 215 front tire, along with higher odds of scraping the front chin for the 205 sized tire.
9.5 inches - 8.0 inches = 267 mm - 216 mm = 38 mm stagger.
The 50 mm stagger is more desirable as many would agree. My main point is that the reason most people went with 265 over 255 was because of the stretch, but the same can be said for 215 on a 8 inch. It just makes more sense on paper than anything. I think there is more of a physiological block for not wanting to go 10 inch versus 9.5 inch than me wanting to maintain that 50 mm stagger for the wheels along with the tire widths. People want maximum width for tires but don't want wheel width to match?
Not by much. 56 percent of the NSX's sold were '91-93, 44 percent were '94-01. Why not choose a wheel size that fits the best tire size for BOTH periods?
Wow, that's a REALLY bad idea. As a general rule, the NSX handling degrades significantly with a stagger of 60 mm or higher.
I'll take that bet. But before you make a bet you're going to lose, I'll just mention that I've been to 16 NSXPO's, averaging 100 NSXs at each. With that and other NSXCA events, I'm sure I've seen over 2000 NSX's in person, although that number includes some duplicates, of course. And yes, I do look at the tire sizes when I'm around a lot of them. How many NSXPO's have you been to? Are you sure you want to make a bet you're going to lose? :biggrin:
The difference in width between a wheel and a tire is meaningless. What matters is what size wheel the tire manufacturers recommend for a given tire size. There are different tire sizes with the same tread width for which different wheel widths are recommended. (For example, 205/50-15 is usually recommended for 5.5-7.5", but 205/45-16 is 6.5-7.5".)
Most people who claim they want maximum width for tires don't know much about tires or handling or performance. For example, most of them will tell you that they want "more rubber to the ground", yet the amount of contact (the area of the contact patch) depends on the weight on the tire and the air pressure, and not at all on the tire width.
In all my years of tracking and nsx ownership(at expos ect) i have never had a conversation about picking a tire based on how it sits on a wheel,,,,just about what tire grips best,and brake clearance of the wheel , cost ect......this whole newer movement of getting a concave wheel sometimes wider than the tire with the tire edge as close to the fender lip without tearing it to pieces is interesting and amusing to me.
LOL... you are really stretching things looking for reasons...
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It's just improper fitment.
Indeed. That's because your conversations have been about which factors actually affect performance, rather than the bling bling. :biggrin:
Again, I wouldn't lose sleep if it was 17x8 and 18x9.5. I was just trying to fight for the 17x8 and 18x10 sizing (2 inch stagger) so you know where my vote is. That extra 1/2 inch will add about a 1 lb difference to the rear wheels (so 4 lbs max in the rear with tires and rims), but I suppose every lb counts for our cars.
NSXtasy: 56% is still majority and the 02+ owners with aftermarket rims most likely went with 265 also. So the percentage should be closer to 60%+. Heck I bet even Honda would have mounted the 265/40/17 on the 17x9 if that size was readily available...
Also deflated low profile tire generally do not increase contact patch as much as say 50 series tire or higher profile slick. Just saying
NSXtasy: 56% is still majority and the 02+ owners with aftermarket rims most likely went with 265 also. So the percentage should be closer to 60%+. Heck I bet even Honda would have mounted the 265/40/17 on the 17x9 if that size was readily available...
Also deflated low profile tire generally do not increase contact patch as much as say 50 series tire or higher profile slick. Just saying
Also deflated low profile tire generally do not increase contact patch as much as say 50 series tire or higher profile slick. Just saying
huh? What does the profile have to do with the contact patch?
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This! Dave you want to differentiate the product from the oem which is 9" while giving buyers what they want. The contact patch size is a function of tire pressure but the shape of it widens as the tread footprint widens this giving more lateral grip. After having 10.5" wheels I can tell you I still want wider and I have 11" on my other car with 305 tires and I still want wider. The 10" is conservative and reasonable for those not as adventurous IMO and that's what I have seen NSXers like the best over time. You have a valid argument with good points Dave but this is a cast wheel built mostly for looks IMO so the penalty isn't bad for an extra 1/2" width and the opportunity to run a 285 tire or even just a wide 265. Tire width is actually a little misleading bc different makes and models fit differently in the same width anyways.
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I buy wheels for the looks. If I wanted performance I wouldn't buy a + sized non-forged replica wheel to put on my NSX. I would buy a ZR1 and call it a day. Lets be real. Smaller lighter wheels will always perform better. We have Wide body Kits with non functional spoilers oversized wheels stretched to the max on a slammed car with rotors that could stop a mack truck in an all aluminum car. Its all about the look. (With the exception of a select few)
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I think one of my points has been made - if making aftermarket wheels - why only go 1/2" wider, seems pointless.
Also I think the +30 is a little aggressive, but if you make the pad thicker and drill the bolt holes more shallow, you'll be able to machine them easily.
I think the logic of subtracting offset to make up for wheel width is flawed since the offset places the tire in the same effective spot regardless of wheel width (within reason) - going by the placement of the outer lip is a mistake.
Probably best to post a poll - but my logic predicts that the real buyers with money ( I mean the people who spend money on wheels frequently - read "wheel whores") will want wider rear wheels - heck, there is even a part of me that would be tempted to add an option of hellaflush fitment (i.e. 17x9 / 18x11) just for fun...
Like I said - if you want 9.5 rears then 7.5 fronts will match better.
Also I think the +30 is a little aggressive, but if you make the pad thicker and drill the bolt holes more shallow, you'll be able to machine them easily.
I think the logic of subtracting offset to make up for wheel width is flawed since the offset places the tire in the same effective spot regardless of wheel width (within reason) - going by the placement of the outer lip is a mistake.
Probably best to post a poll - but my logic predicts that the real buyers with money ( I mean the people who spend money on wheels frequently - read "wheel whores") will want wider rear wheels - heck, there is even a part of me that would be tempted to add an option of hellaflush fitment (i.e. 17x9 / 18x11) just for fun...
Like I said - if you want 9.5 rears then 7.5 fronts will match better.
I haven't said they won't be forged. It depends on price. Ultimately I will get a list of buyers together that are willing TO PAY, and post a poll they can participate in. It is only fair that the guys willing to put down money get their vote counted over someone who has an opinion but would never actually buy.
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