NSX snobbery?

[ilya]

I found it hypocritical in a different sense.
By definition:

The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.

We have two threads, one right above the other. I just finished reading the first about how various people are upset when they are judged by their appearance at dealerships. It is determined and agreed in this thread that this practice is unevolved and those salesman deserved the loss of sale.
What a terrible thing to do to make such judgement calls based on a single piece of information (appearance in this case).


I then open the thread right below it, where an individual asks a question about finding clear lights for their NSX. I then continue to read a myriad of responses judging this person's taste, class, maturity level and ability due to his single inquiry.

I found this display, directly under a thread denouncing very similar behavior from others, hypocritical. It was that thread, in relation to the first half of this one, that I found hypocritical. To denounce an action, then turn around and commit the same on another is hypocritical. We have a thread denouncing the 'snobbery' that goes one at some dealerships, then turn around and commit some 'snobbery' of our own.

Sorry, should have cleared that up.



[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 25 April 2002).]

 

[Jimbo]

55% Tax....

For many people here in the USA...there's a 55% tax as well. It's just not lumped in to one tax however.

It's spread out over a variety of federal, state, city, sales taxes, occupational taxes, death taxes, etc.

No matter how you slice it...it's still income redistribution.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[nsxtasy]

Perhaps the tax discussion could be moved to the Off Topic forum?

In fact, even the "how much should your net worth be" discussion might be moved over as well...

 

[tabasco]

Originally posted by steveny:
Have you ever put a roof on a house on a 90 degree day? Why do you think that roofing should pay less than some other type of work? Just because one does not need a degree to do so does not mean the work should pay less. Especially when you factor in the danger and extreme temperatures. I feel it is more difficult to start and maintain a successful business than to go to college and work for a company. Unless someone has already operated their own business they will never know how difficult running a business can be. When making connections during refrigeration repair the repairman has to heat the joint so hot that it releases a mild form of phosgene gas. What is it worth to breath that in for a few decades, and possible end up a disease from it? Life is what I place a value on. If someone is willing to risk it or cut it short they should be compensated greatly for this.

Wow, you have it all wrong. I'm not devaluing anyone’s life. I worked as the VP of Construction (prior life) for a 170-chain retail grocer (a division of the largest grocery chain in the World). I was responsible for the construction, remodeling and maintenance of these facilities. I dealt with 300+ contractors ranging from roofers to parking lot re-stripers. The ones that drove up in the Benz’s and other luxury cars were the ones I used the least. The roofer that is in work clothes that is covered in tar and drives up in a 10 year old tar-covered PU is usually my choice. This isn't a prejudice based on my culture, it is based on EXPERIENCE. The luxury guy wished he could get in the door, but would usually be the high(er) bid. He would be the guy who would want to take me to lunch and lavish me with gifts. Keep the lunch and gifts, give me the old PU.

I have started 4 businesses in my lifetime and currently operate a very successful one. I need no one to tell me about starting and running a business.

Sorry if somehow I offended you, but the point I was trying to make was you don't show your wealth to a client. You can disagree, that's ok. I take my philosophy to the bank every day.


------------------

• '00 Candy Apple Blue / Black, #264
• My Card
• My NSX

 

[gheba_nsx]

Ilya,
thanks, I got it now!

 

[hejo]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
55% Tax....

For many people here in the USA...there's a 55% tax as well. It's just not lumped in to one tax however.

It's spread out over a variety of federal, state, city, sales taxes, occupational taxes, death taxes, etc.

No matter how you slice it...it's still income redistribution.

-Jim

Amen Jim! I can't believe how much I paid in taxes last year!

I can't complain too much because I'm not doing too bad against formula. It seems to make sense for me. Consider this...

I've saved a minimum 10% of my earnings from when I graduated from college, 20+ years ago. My car payments during the 1st tens years of my career were only about 10% or less than my monthly gross income (less now). Most of my early investments had a predictable value in the future versus short term reward.

Want a real shock figure out how much you've earned thus far in your life and how much you still have. Want to get mad figure out how much you've paid in taxes over the years and compare that to how much you are worth! Then figure out what a 5% tax break would make on your future net worth.

 

[Carguy!]

Originally posted by tabasco:
I have started 4 businesses in my lifetime and currently operate a very successful one. I need no one to tell me about starting and running a business.

Sorry if somehow I offended you, but the point I was trying to make was you don't show your wealth to a client. You can disagree, that's ok. I take my philosophy to the bank every day.

It is too bad that you are driving to the bank in a '93 Corrola when you have a beautiful NSX in the garage at home!

I believe you are underestimating the value of the service you are providing, if your business is doing that well I don't believe that driving your NSX to work would hurt it in the least. Enjoy what you have!

If you are good at what you do, people will beat your door down with business.

 

[ilya]

The world is full of very immature people and I understand why he does what he does. I've lost count how many times I've felt like the oldest person in the room meeting with people double my age.

There are 101 reasons why he should be able to drive his car wherever he chooses and enjoy it, but none of them matter. The client comes first, and if it will hurt relations for any reason, regardless of how immature or irrational, that is all that matters.

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by Zuerst:
Yea... And if I remeber correctly I say that assume one has NO UNDERSTANDING of the two woman, but I guess you missed it. And assuming a better looking woman would be more of a pain is just being stereotipical and discrminate. Again it's making a first impression that I'm talking about, not a commitment.

You were making a comparison to work and work is a long term commitment. Anyone that has ever been hurt or had their heart ripped out by a less than attractive woman please step up and say so.

 

[Nsxotic]

Sorry to be so exact and personal but this is really scaring me. My formula comes out to well over 400k. If I add my cash, car value, home value and 401k and then subtract what I owe on the car and house, it is indeed far less then 80k. Should I be adding up everything I own like big screen tvs, pool table, furniture, etc......??? Even then I might only pick up between 10 and 15k based on actual resale value. This is very disturbing. I need advice. Hejo, help me!

 

[Jimbo]

Those "smaller" things won't really affect the calculations of your net worth. Televisions, pool tables, radios, clothing, dishes, etc typically have a limited life and shouldn't really be considered an asset.

Of course, if you have a particular antique pool table, or something special, then it's another matter.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by tabasco:
Wow, you have it all wrong. I'm not devaluing anyone’s life. I worked as the VP of Construction (prior life) for a 170-chain retail grocer (a division of the largest grocery chain in the World). I was responsible for the construction, remodeling and maintenance of these facilities. I dealt with 300+ contractors ranging from roofers to parking lot re-stripers. The ones that drove up in the Benz’s and other luxury cars were the ones I used the least. The roofer that is in work clothes that is covered in tar and drives up in a 10 year old tar-covered PU is usually my choice. This isn't a prejudice based on my culture, it is based on EXPERIENCE. The luxury guy wished he could get in the door, but would usually be the high(er) bid. He would be the guy who would want to take me to lunch and lavish me with gifts. Keep the lunch and gifts, give me the old PU.

I have started 4 businesses in my lifetime and currently operate a very successful one. I need no one to tell me about starting and running a business.

Sorry if somehow I offended you, but the point I was trying to make was you don't show your wealth to a client. You can disagree, that's ok. I take my philosophy to the bank every day.

I am not offended in the least bit. I agree with your philosophy not to drive an expensive car to a work site. However what I was trying to convey is that roofing or other trades that are physically demanding or damaging are worth a premium rate to be performed. Working as the VP of Construction for a 170-chain retail grocer is not the same as being the roofer that is in work clothes that is covered in tar and drives up in a 10 year old tar-covered PU. The latter is not as much fun I am sure you would agree. Walking out on the roof every so often to see how things are going is much different than carrying 80lbs bundles of shingles over your shoulder up a 30 foot ladder or breathing in toxic fumes for 8 hours a day.

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by Nsxotic:
Sorry to be so exact and personal but this is really scaring me. My formula comes out to well over 400k. If I add my cash, car value, home value and 401k and then subtract what I owe on the car and house, it is indeed far less then 80k. Should I be adding up everything I own like big screen tvs, pool table, furniture, etc......??? Even then I might only pick up between 10 and 15k based on actual resale value. This is very disturbing. I need advice. Hejo, help me!

I will give you 50 bucks for the pool table, 75 if you include the sticks and balls.

 

[nsxtasy]

Hmmm... we seem to be not only going off-topic here, but also incorporating quite a few different subjects into one long conversation:

1. salesman treatment of potential customers
2. ability to test drive a car
3. appearances to clients/customers based on the car you drive
4. appearance of vendors based on the car THEY drive
5. flaunting of wealth or not
6. first impressions to the opposite sex
7. appropriate net worth based on income
8. hypocrisy based on the juxtaposition of posts
9. comparison of tax rates from one country to another
10. proper income level for various trades

Regarding topic number 10

, the amount of income for any particular occupation depends much more on supply and demand than on the amount of effort expended. For example, social workers put in long hours and it's one of the lowest-paid occupations (I'm sure there are others that we can think of). Professional athletes have half the year off and are highly paid.

 

[Lud]

Ken is right this has gone way, way off topic (I am as guilty as anyone else) therefore...

NOTICE!!! This thread will be moved to Off Topic tomorrow morning.

Everyone is welcome to continue it there - I think it has turned out to be quite interesting, but has almost no NSX content. It is so popular that I wanted to give people a little notice before I moved it.

 

[Michigan NSX]

Pride of ownership is often mistaken for "Snobbery" for those who dont have the item in question (now matter how friendly and enthusiastic you may be).

------------------
'91 Black/Black

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Hmmm... we seem to be not only going off-topic here, but also incorporating quite a few different subjects into one long conversation:

Professional athletes have half the year off and are highly paid.

Just to see how far off topic we can really take this - Michael Schumacher is paid somewhere north of $30 million dollars by Ferrari to compete in 16 events of approximately 2 hours each...
Yes, I know, he does a bit more than just show up and drive the actual races but that's a whole 'nother topic and has no place here.

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[DocL]

Originally posted by Lud:
Ken is right this has gone way, way off topic (I am as guilty as anyone else) therefore...

NOTICE!!! This thread will be moved to Off Topic tomorrow morning.

Everyone is welcome to continue it there - I think it has turned out to be quite interesting, but has almost no NSX content. It is so popular that I wanted to give people a little notice before I moved it.

What do you mean Lud?? I see an NSX in almost every Avatar!

 

[Zuerst]

Originally posted by steveny:
You were making a comparison to work and work is a long term commitment. Anyone that has ever been hurt or had their heart ripped out by a less than attractive woman please step up and say so.

Yes it is a comparison, but it is not a direct comparision; it was however an analogy. A woman's appearance is subjective, and base on what you said, I assume you're saying that the only thing matters is a woman's appearance. A less than attractive woman may well break one's heart not by physical appearance, but by lost of compassion and love...etc.

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by Lud:
Ken is right this has gone way, way off topic (I am as guilty as anyone else) therefore...

NOTICE!!! This thread will be moved to Off Topic tomorrow morning.

Everyone is welcome to continue it there - I think it has turned out to be quite interesting, but has almost no NSX content. It is so popular that I wanted to give people a little notice before I moved it.

Boo! Hiss! I say keep this topic (these topics?) well, this thread anyway right here and re-name this section. Then move everything else out of it. Or not. Whatever. We now resume our regular programming...



------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by Zuerst:
Yes it is a comparison, but it is not a direct comparision; it was however an analogy. A woman's appearance is subjective, and base on what you said, I assume you're saying that the only thing matters is a woman's appearance. A less than attractive woman may well break one's heart not by physical appearance, but by lost of compassion and love...etc.

The only thing that anyone has to go on is past experiences. If one were to play the odds, the chances are much greater of having your heart broken by a beautiful woman than the less than attractive one. In your original post you said:

There's also something called "first impression"... And if I have no understanding of 2 women but are force to choose (or have the "power" to choose) I would and probably everyone would choose the better looking one...

Even if I know nothing about these two women that in no way can negate what I do know about women from past experiences. Therefore I would make my decision from my own experiences.

As for an analogy: I can leave the key in the ignition to my rusted out 15 year old pick up parked in Brooklyn, and not even shed a drop of sweat. However with the NSX locked up and on the same street I would not even be able to think of anything else.

 

[Zuerst]

Originally posted by steveny:
The only thing that anyone has to go on is past experiences. If one were to play the odds, the chances are much greater of having your heart broken by a beautiful woman than the less than attractive one. In your original post you said:

There's also something called "first impression"... And if I have no understanding of 2 women but are force to choose (or have the "power" to choose) I would and probably everyone would choose the better looking one...

Even if I know nothing about these two women that in no way can negate what I do know about women from past experiences. Therefore I would make my decision from my own experiences.

As for an analogy: I can leave the key in the ignition to my rusted out 15 year old pick up parked in Brooklyn, and not even shed a drop of sweat. However with the NSX locked up and on the same street I would not even be able to think of anything else.

Sure past experinces aid in decision making, you can generalize and stereotype people, but it is also true that everyone human being is different. One's experiment with others have to do in part, and in fact, big part with who you are and how you precieve the relationship.

And maybe I'm stupid, but I don't really understand your analogy and what you're using it to protray. However I do know that you can do what you do with that old rusted truck because it is of little value to you, but the NSX is worth a great deal. Most if not all cars are depreciting properties, human relatoinships on the other hand, are generally the direct opposite. Are you saying that better looking and/or rich women are worth more then less attractive and/or poor women, and that they are inferior?

 

[Hans]

In months of reading posts I couldn't help but get in on this one.

Regarding Ken's post:
>10. proper income level for various trades

At orchestra rehearsal the other day we were calculating the per pitch salary of new Indians pitcher (can't remember who).

We estimated it to be close to $50,000 per pitch! If only I could get paid that much per concert!

 

[hejo]

Originally posted by Nsxotic:
This is very disturbing. I need advice. Hejo, help me!

Hey Todd don't freak too much. You're still relatively young so I suspect your not in too bad of shape and it's also not too late. But you need to pay attention to this very soon. Also I'm not a certified planner so I'm just going to give you some thoughts.

Pay yourself first every month just like you pay bills. Treat yourself as you treat everyone else that you owe money to. Think of it as something you owe yourself because you do.

Second find a financial planner if don't already have one. Ask for referrals from people who are doing okay and that you respect. Check their references, seriously. Read. Sounds simple and it is but you'd be surprised how many people don't continue their education.

Start by doing these and you'll be on your way towards having more financial freedom. I'm sure you planner will also point out other actions you can take as appropriate.

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by Zuerst:
Sure past experinces aid in decision making, you can generalize and stereotype people, but it is also true that everyone human being is different. One's experiment with others have to do in part, and in fact, big part with who you are and how you precieve the relationship.

And maybe I'm stupid, but I don't really understand your analogy and what you're using it to protray. However I do know that you can do what you do with that old rusted truck because it is of little value to you, but the NSX is worth a great deal. Most if not all cars are depreciting properties, human relatoinships on the other hand, are generally the direct opposite. Are you saying that better looking and/or rich women are worth more then less attractive and/or poor women, and that they are inferior?

I do not think you are stupid at all. I enjoy having these types of discussions, I sometimes find out things about myself that I never knew. However this is not the case here today. I think that you took my analogy to the extreme. Yes it was a comparison between the vehicles and women. It was not meant to classify women by any means. It also was not meant to portray me as someone who can not have a meaningful relationship. Here is what I was trying to convey. I would rather spend my time on things that interest me and not chasing beautiful women around. I do not want to spend my time stroking a relationship just to have a beautiful woman to look at. I can state as fact that one will need to spend a lot more time WORKING on a relationship with a beautiful women. I would rather think of a relationship as fun and not work. The current relationship I am in is FUN.

I can leave a less desirable car on the street without worrying that someone will try and take her away. If someone wants your beautiful car and you are not paying attention to it, you just might lose it.

This is just a time saver for me. It allows me to do the things that I want to do and avoid the things I don't. Its like Einstein and his many sets of the same suit. It just saves time. Life is short.