Why mod it?

[goldNSX]

The FAQ and Wiki is not a good primary source. Just because they were designed at the same time dosnt mean they were designed for the nsx. Show a good primary source outside prime that proves this and i'll agree.

If you can show me the packet that said the tires were designed for the nsx, i'll agree. As of now, it's just speculation.

You're not asking us to show you the phrase 'designed for the NSX' printed literally in any source? Otherwise you won't believe that they were designed for the NSX?

It's simply rediculous saying the FAQ is not a good source. I don't tell that everything is perfect in the FAQ but it not the 'Daily mirror' or any other junk newspaper. :wink:

There was a booklet about the tires and their development features in every NSX and doing some 'speculations' (as you state) shows clearly that these tires have been designed for the NSX specifically.

There are other things to mention about the Yokos:

- They were not available in L/R or other sizes for any other car.
- Yoko used very soft compound normally not found at that time to maximize performance.
- The H022 tires were marked as Honda by the tire dealers
...

I've ran the 16/17 Yoko H022 tires till september and switched to GS-D3 and have to say that the H022 is still better than most of the brand tires out there in the same size. They just wear a little bit too fast. So I won't say that 15 years outdated the Yoko by performance.

 

[KooLaid]

Oh goodie, an NSX with a big advertisement for a so-called "gentlemen's club". That's really classy...

Ya know, sex sells. And many "gentlemen" would pay the price for that se.... I mean entertainment :biggrin:

 

[stuntman]

No, I stand by what I say. I have looked up that tire, its background, etc... and theirs no proof pointing to all these hopeful claims (making the car 'special') that the tire was designed for the NSX.

If you (or anyone) can prove it, then i'll admit my search wasn't as good. But from what I know, I do not believe they were. And as of now, I stand strongly behind that.

So Ferrari's F1 team is bad because they are sponsored by a cigarette company? Dale Jr. is bad because he is sponsored by an alcohol company? Mark Martin is weird because he's old and sponsored by Viagra? (well maybe).

You get my point. Sponsors are what make racing happen. Yes seamless decided to sponsor Factor X's efforts in Time Attack Racing. If you understood racing, you would understand that...

You're not asking us to show you the phrase 'designed for the NSX' printed literally in any source? Otherwise you won't believe that they were designed for the NSX?

It's simply rediculous saying the FAQ is not a good source. I don't tell that everything is perfect in the FAQ but it not the 'Daily mirror' or any other junk newspaper. :wink:

There was a booklet about the tires and their development features in every NSX and doing some 'speculations' (as you state) shows clearly that these tires have been designed for the NSX specifically.

There are other things to mention about the Yokos:

- They were not available in L/R or other sizes for any other car.
- Yoko used very soft compound normally not found at that time to maximize performance.
- The H022 tires were marked as Honda by the tire dealers
...

I've ran the 16/17 Yoko H022 tires till september and switched to GS-D3 and have to say that the H022 is still better than most of the brand tires out there in the same size. They just wear a little bit too fast. So I won't say that 15 years outdated the Yoko by performance.

I'm not looking for that phrase. Yes the fact that theirs a separate RF, LF, RR, LR order for them is a strong argument that they were designed for the NSX. Does that tire have a specify each corner for ALL tire purchases, regardless of make or model?

That alone is the strongest proof that they were designed for the NSX. If they don't specify each corner for all tire purchases, only for the NSX, I may be happy enough with that as proof.

Damn it, you racers have all the cool shit. i want one.... :frown: And still NOT look like a idiot for having one on the steet. Splitter with supports that is. The canard thing just don't look right even if it is full functional.

You can buy the splitter (cantrel concepts racing splitter http://scienceofspeed.com/products/...NSX/Cantrell_Concepts/carbon_racing_splitter/) it bolts to the factory bumper. All we did was take alumilite, and make a full flat-bottom (cheaper and better than buying the $800 NSX-R undertray) and you don't have to have the flat bottom extend past the cantrel splitter. We had our undertray extend another 2" past cantrel's splitter -thus requiring the supports. If you don't have your undertray stick that far past the splitter (or dont use one atall) you don't need the supports.

Their was a huge difference after extending the splitter another 2". It did still benefit greatly just having Cantrel's splitter on there compared to nothing, but the added 2" made even a greater difference. I'm skeptical of the canard's benefit and agree about the looks. -But you gotta test stuff in racing, even if it dosn't always look good...

 

[pvmike]

stuntman,

Here's a press release from Honda corporate: http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2115

Relevant section:

TIRES

The suspension engineers, working in conjunction with Yokohama Tire Company and Bridgestone Tire Company, sought to produce tires that would not only provide excellent traction and handling, but would also allow the driver to "feel" the limits of the tires' performance.

The resulting NSX-specific tires are remarkable, meeting all the high-performance targets the engineers established early in the program.

And many members that have tried 235's in front have reported rubbing. I don't see how you can dispute this.

Would you like a little bit of salt on those words? :tongue:

 

[stuntman]

stuntman,

Here's a press release from Honda corporate: http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=2115

Relevant section:


And many members that have tried 235's in front have reported rubbing. I don't see how you can dispute this.

Would you like a little bit of salt on those words? :tongue:

Very cool. You found something that I can accept. I will officially take back my skepticisms and previous beliefs from my earlier knowledge, and have no regrets doubting it in the first place. Their are so many pieces of information leading to wild claims that with what I knew earlier, found it hard to believe.

That dosn't mean the car will handle like crap or like it wasn't meant to be, if you use different tires, I have not driven on those listed tires and definitley have them on my list now, but I'm confident theirs many tires that exceed those tire's performance.

Yes I can't dispute the fact the tires were designed w/the car, but I think 235s with over a degree of negative camber in the front on 8" wide wheel with greater than 43 offset will be fine and shouldn't rub.

 

[goldNSX]

Yoko tires: Today car manufacturers claim that they do better fitting (for a certain model) tire with a tire producer, thinking they do it better than the tire producer itself. This is with BMW, Mercedes and Porsche AFAIK. As far as the Mercedes specific tires (labelled MO) are concerned they have been tested along with the 'ordinary' tires in the same size/brand/model, the Mercedes specific one was 'tuned' to max life and min road noise BUT it falled far behind the normal tire in wet conditions just because Mercedes put the stress on some criterias and neglected others (wet conditions) instead. Intelligent marketing: Mercedes sells 'their' tires at a higher price and praises them as being perfect for their car model. Crazy, no?

Stuntman, from this point of view I understand your critic but it has been completely different with the NSX.

 

[stuntman]

Stuntman, from this point of view I understand your critic but it has been completely different with the NSX.

At this point I can agree with that. And now want to try those tires...

 

[nsx1]

I'll take a 235/40-17f and 275/35-18r...

...And your front tires will rub, at least some of the time.

They havn't on this car:...

Billy, I'm sure you have your experience with these sizes and the particular setup, but I am very surprised to hear you say that. If your dampers are extra stuff with less travel (like on a track car), they might not rub. But I agree with Ken, 235/40-17 fronts will most likely rub at some point on a car with a street setup.

Oh goodie, an NSX with a big advertisement for a so-called "gentlemen's club". That's really classy...

Ken, that's beneath you. You're better than that.



.

 

[stuntman]

Billy, I'm sure you have your experience with these sizes and the particular setup, but I am very surprised to hear you say that. If your dampers are extra stuff with less travel (like on a track car), they might not rub. But I agree with Ken, 235/40-17 fronts will most likely rub at some point on a car with a street setup.

Yes the dampers are stiffer, and the spring rates are higher on that car. But keep in mind rubbing will happen either:
1- at full lock (not a big deal) -caused by the offset being too low (ex. +45)
2- under compression (a bump) to the outer fender -tire stood up too much (not enough camber to 'tuck' the tire under the fender).
3- under compression - caused by offset being too much (ex. +25)

You have to keep in mind the wheel offset and suspension when talking about rubbing issues -also if it's the fender lip or inner wheel well at full lock.

If you have stock suspension, you have a lot of clearance and your ride height is high. You should't rub with a 235 if your offsets are correct.

Yes camber and offset change the handling and dynamics of the car and that has to be taken into consideration as well. So any number of these variables can cause the tire to rub, some more severe than others but as a whole, not the end of the world.

Do 235s rub - yes they can, but if camber, ride height, and offset is correct (regardless if its stock suspension, streetable coilover, or race coilover) you shouldn't have rubbing issues.

215s should be fine in most situations, regardless of mentioned above.

Is rubbing at full-lock a bad thing? - not necessarily, and even if they do with 235s, it dosn't hurt anything, and its not by much either.

215 or 235? -like everything else, that question is hard to answer without taking all else mentioned into consideration. It comes down to what is done to your car, what you plan on using it for, and what your specific goals are. It's not black and white. But saying 235s are too big, will rub, and wont work is a false statement.

$0.02

 

[goldNSX]

At this point I can agree with that. And now want to try those tires...

..if you still can find them. Haven't they been discontinued in the US? In Europe they have.

Interesting point about the S2000 S-02 tires: The rear 225/50/16 was labelled JZ and was completely different from any other tire in that size. It actually was a 245/45/16 but was labelled with 225/50. This tire is sticky as hell but wears out very quickly. This tire was also not available to other cars, of course they could mount them if they get a set at the dealer.
Here's a pic of my nightmare going from S-02JZ to Yoko Advan Sport in the S2000. Please remind it's the SAME SIZE. The car lost ALL of his caracteristics. Another proof that Honda does and did special deals with tyre producers.

 

[KooLaid]

Who cares if it rubs anyways. Generally it's only going to rub at full lock anways or when you're 4 wheeling up some steep driveway or taking your nsx for a WRC run.

 

[BluryNSX]

Wow that is the sweetest Brooklands NSX I've ever seen!.

Thanks

 

[Patricio]

I don't drive anything that looks like anyone else's
I don't live in a cookie cutter McMansion like anyone else's
I don't own a Typical restaurant like anyone else's
I don't build track housing and cookie cutters like most people
I don't earn Typical money like most people
I don't make Typical investments like most people

No car manufacture on earth will waste there time building a car just for me.
Thank god for modifications.
Modify life.

Stock is what the engineers would find most commonly pleasing to the majority. The majority is lame, boring, uncreative, unadventurous seeking to make a Pre-constructed purchase that will fill their downfalls.

Sorry I don't fit into the majority. The good life, good financial decisions, and even good health also don't come with thinking like majority.

"I Support Individuality, I Support Creativity, Therefore I Modify Life." -Me

You could not sell me a stock NSX for 1/2 the value if could not modify it or sell it for profit.

 

[Patricio]

As far as to modify or not to modify & stock wheel and tires go the stock set up tires and suspension pull .89g on the skid pad.

If that number holds any value to you than you better call SOS or Dali asap because its can use a ton help with little effort.

If .89g does not mean anything to you than stock is fine and your stock NSX should please you to the fullest and beyond.

As far as why not buy something Pre-made faster?
I believe the NSX has the most potential overall layout of any car available right now.
factor-x Turbo + Moton - 500lbs = faster and better handling than just about any thing drivable on the street.

plus doesn't depreciate and is cheap as hell to maintain.

After buying and owning the NSX for over a year now no other car sparks me like MY and I Repeat "MY" NSX. I love and appreciate allot of peoples some are faster some are prettier some in better condition. But I love mine because its unique and mine. I searched for a while and finally found a NSX that was previously modified 90% how I would have done it myself and now I'm still modifying it to exactly my taste.

 

[socalx]

.

Also I personally like the sound of the Comptech exhaust, and am skeptical that I will like the OEM one as much. To me it sounds like an NSX, but in reality it's not the sound the original engineers had designed and I accept that as truth.

I have had a stock, comptech, tubi and ARC exhaust on my nsx. To be completly honest with you the comptech is THE worst sounding exhaust for the nsx period. I would suggest that even the stock exhaust sounds better and if you truly looking for sound in an exhaust to try a taitec gt lightweight, tubi, gt one, gruppe m, or ARC. Each of these exhausts have unique sound characteristics and which you like the most is a matter of personal taste.

However to say you are running comptech becuase you like the sound is as bad as if you had a 91-93 nsx and said that you were running the stock 15-16 inch wheels because you think they look best.

 

[NSXFRIEND]

Hello all,

Having bought my 94 Brooklands Green NSX in May, I'm beginning to appreciate the strengths and weaknesses of the car and myself as a driver. With the exception of an installed-in-1994 Comptech Exhaust and Cold Air intake, my NSX is bone stock. The mod bug never bit me, nor will I ever mod the car.

All that being said, I had the opportunity to participate in a curvy mountain drive with a 2004 Porsche 911 C4s, a 2006 Lotus Exige, and a 8? Ferrari 328. The performance of the stock NSX was closest to the C4s, but it would absolutely walk away from me in curves while the Lotus was untouchable and out of sight (the Ferrari lagged behind somewhat, but still moved along at a nice clip). It was a great day with a bunch of bone stock cars.

I'm not criticizing those that choose to mod their NSX's, I love the fact that we can each choose what we do with our vehicles. I guess my question is this...if you want a car that can rip the track apart, why not go drop the cash for an Exige and be done with it? If you want a car which can walk off from the NSX, there are tons available, why not buy one?

Bottom line...why mod the NSX into something it wasn't engineered to be?

I love my NSX. It was the realization of a lifelong dream and I will hopefully never have to part with it. It's not as fast in curves as the Exige, or a quick on takeoff as the C4s, but it will keep them in sight and catch up if the road is right. Kudos to Honda Motor Company.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am curious if there are other NSX owners which feel the way I do...that Honda had it right from day one?

S

The only mods the NSX needs is Type R-S-Zinardi. In stock form it out-handles every Lamborghini, looks better than every Lotus, 911, Ferrari less F-50 and Enzo. BTW it can also do better with the right driver at the track in stock form than most of the cars less 8 years ago.

 

[MvM]

All that being said, I had the opportunity to participate in a curvy mountain drive with a 2004 Porsche 911 C4s, a 2006 Lotus Exige, and a 8? Ferrari 328. The performance of the stock NSX was closest to the C4s, but it would absolutely walk away from me in curves while the Lotus was untouchable and out of sight (the Ferrari lagged behind somewhat, but still moved along at a nice clip). It was a great day with a bunch of bone stock cars.

I'm not criticizing those that choose to mod their NSX's, I love the fact that we can each choose what we do with our vehicles. I guess my question is this...if you want a car that can rip the track apart, why not go drop the cash for an Exige and be done with it? If you want a car which can walk off from the NSX, there are tons available, why not buy one?

Bottom line...why mod the NSX into something it wasn't engineered to be?

I love my NSX. It was the realization of a lifelong dream and I will hopefully never have to part with it. It's not as fast in curves as the Exige, or a quick on takeoff as the C4s, but it will keep them in sight and catch up if the road is right. Kudos to Honda Motor Company.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, but am curious if there are other NSX owners which feel the way I do...that Honda had it right from day one?

S

Actually, I strongly feel that Honda did in fact ENGINEER the NSX to be better or at least equal in any department than it's direct competition when it was introduced.
After all, that was the whole idea behind the NSX wasn't it? To show the world what Honda was capable off.

However, time has not stood still and neither has the competition. We all know that. At the same time, the original NSX-design is extremely good and has plenty of room for improvement. So, with the right modifications, the NSX is still a very capable car than can keep up with much newer designs without too much trouble.

As a matter of fact, I drove my NSX for more than a year before starting to mod anything. And every modification I have made was thought over for a long time before actually deciding to do it. And also, every modification has been done to improve the car's ability in one way or the other.

So, it comes down to this.
- With the right modification that Lotus would NOT have been 'untouchable' -- That Porsche C4S would NOT 'absolutely have walked away in curves'.
- And that Ferrari would not just have lagged behind 'somewhat' but a lot, lot more.

That is what a little of the right modifications can do for you :smile: In my humble opinion that is of course :biggrin:

 

[nsxpilot]

I've had my car for about 12 years now. I guess I'll have until I can't drive anymore. I was leery of the "slippery slope" of modifying my car for a few years but now am only limited by my budget. It's a challenge to make a change to a well engineered vehicle without some sort of negative compromise and as mentioned elsewhere, modding is a very personal/subjective concept. The NSX had one area of complaint with me.....it was a bit "appliance like". A little too soft, a little to quiet etc. That said, it was easy to remedy. My goal is to always improve performance without sacrificing livability and creature comfort. I dieted about 100lbs away (from the car that is). Headers, intake and chip gave it extra punch and attitude. Sport suspension made a really nice improvement in cornering, withut too much of a ride quality sacrifice. The sound system was marginal in 1993 and pretty bad by today's standards, so that's getting fixed. I know it will never be done completely and I love looking at other's efforts. One loves a given vehicle for how it makes you feel. The NSX was and is a masterpiece of design and execution!

 

[91 X]

why mod it??? why not???

I bought mine bone stock and couldn't "mod" it quick enough...don't get me wrong, I love the fact that it was stock, but those old school rims and ride height had to go asap...then add a Taitec and tint and ....well you be the judge.


before:redface:

after..

 

[KooLaid]

Well mods are like a coin flip sometimes. Either you do a mod and it does enhance the vehicle or you do the mod and it actually hurts the vehicle or a combination of the two.

Like my coilover and swaybar dilemma. I did well known mods.... I kinda don't like them. So now I'm spending bigger bucks trying to get the feel I want in a trial and error sort of way.

For suspension, oem was for me was good. But not good enough. But instead of trying to get the little bit extra to make it "good enough", I tried to go for great and I ended up with.... sorta ok, trying to work my way back up to good, then to good enough.

As for stereo, oem sucks.

 

[Synthesis]

why mod it??? why not???

I bought mine bone stock and couldn't "mod" it quick enough...don't get me wrong, I love the fact that it was stock, but those old school rims and ride height had to go asap...then add a Taitec and tint and ....well you be the judge.


before:redface:

after..

nuff said :biggrin:
(nice car, btw )

 

[kenjiMR]

I enjoy mine everyday thanks for givign up such a wonderful car Kenji... when you coming back to teach me how to drive her better

Whenever! You never call! I'm in town about every month. I already gone to the track here on the east coast too. (NHIS & Lime Rock)

 

[TURBO2GO]

Drops like the stone it's painted to match:biggrin:

Yeah... if it was Blue it would fly like a fairy.

 

[WingZ]

Yeah... if it was Blue it would fly like a fairy.

Says the fruit wearing silver under wear:biggrin:

Hell, I'm even wearing silverstone underwear right now. I made it out of the extra leather I had leftover. It's perforated so it ventilates well. :biggrin:

Becareful what you type:biggrin:

 

[TURBO2GO]

I guess my question is this...if you want a car that can rip the track apart, why not go drop the cash for an Exige and be done with it? If you want a car which can walk off from the NSX, there are tons available, why not buy one?

Bottom line...why mod the NSX into something it wasn't engineered to be?

Because an exige is uncomfortable, a Z06 is unreliable, a 911 is dime a dozen, a Ferrari is a money pit, Aston is a depreciating pig, Maseratis are ugly, and anything truly better is 3X the price.

I took a new 2005 NSX and with an awesome exhaust, a supercharger and a few R parts turned it into what is to me a real super car. Only it's reliable, it doesn't depreciate, it looks awesome, and its ultra rare.

I know what you are saying but besides the R8 tell me what other car I could have that could have all of this.

A stock NSX is nice but a well-modded NSX is fantastic.