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$12-15/gallon gas
- Thread starter Timpo
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The present cost of oil (and the resulting cost of gasoline) is based not on an actual lack of supply, but on an artificially contrived lack of supply. Iran is actually so far ahead on production that it is renting tankers in which to store the glut.
Beyond that, a lack of appealing alternative investments and the messy global situation has resulted in a run on commodities, further raising the price of oil and supported by speculation alone.
"Peak oil" production drop off will happen, and maybe soon, but it is not happening right now.
Beyond that, a lack of appealing alternative investments and the messy global situation has resulted in a run on commodities, further raising the price of oil and supported by speculation alone.
"Peak oil" production drop off will happen, and maybe soon, but it is not happening right now.
I have no clue on actualities or real-world basis for my response, but I'd think that Gas prices would only go as high as people are willing to pay if there is enough supply. People still drive SUV's and we still drive the sport mobiles. The Oil guys would rather see you driving a gas mobile vs alternative methods if that means they have to cut profit a bit. And on another note a $600 a month lease for a hydrogen powered sedan? huh?
That would be true if we lived in a bubble. The reality is the U.S. is no longer the decider in world wide consumption and is not the majority responsible for increases in demand of crude. There is 25,000 new drivers of automobiles in China every day. The entire industry is shady and nobody, including Exxon, knows what is in store for us definitively in the future.
The fact of the matter is two of our largest exporters, Russia and Mexico, are going to no longer export period within 5-10 years. Saudi will not increase production to make up for it. Other fields are out there but only profitable at higher costs, the end of 'cheap oil' is more or less already here.
We have enough coal to do whatever we want, at the expense of the environment with current technology. Nuclear technology is another feasible solution but the hippies would rather ride bicycles to work, not that I necessarily blame them for that one.
All that being said, there is zero reason for crude to be up $5 today or it to be up $25 in one month of one year. THAT particular activity is NOT proportionally to the supply and demand issues I previously noted.
I love my Honda Insight. :biggrin:
Every day on my way into work, I drive by a place selling heating oil that has their price posted outside. Just a few months ago it was at $2.25. I would think to myself, for every 10 cents that goes up, that would cost another $20 to fill a 200 gallon tank. Yesterday it jumped from $4.20 to $4.50. I simply can't imagine filling an oil tank and paying $900. I had oil heat in a previous home and we went through a tank approx every 6 weeks.
I am SO glad I don't have oil heat any longer, it's extremely common in new england and I'm casually house shopping, if I see a home has oil heat, it's out.
I am SO glad I don't have oil heat any longer, it's extremely common in new england and I'm casually house shopping, if I see a home has oil heat, it's out.
The US govt couldn't allow that to happen, it would paralyze the country. They'd have to step in and subsidize. Nobody would be able to afford to get to work, hell they might lose money driving to work or even taking mass transportation if it's available in their area. It actually cost more for me to take the train, bus or vanpool than drive when I worked in Boston, the only reason I did take mass transportation was because of the parking costs.
I think oil going up is a good thing, That's why I bought a Corolla about 6 months ago. We need a change in people's thoughts not to buy these POS H2's and now gas is > the cost of the car. Also you have to understand if they remove the gas tax it is not going to help anything because it's a suply and demand chart. If supply stays the same and price goes down demanad will go upto price. Also you can see a lot of small traders are short oil, well that is going to drive it up as well. Also if my math is right if oil hits $150 we should be paying about $4.60 a gal for gas and this is not the good stuff.
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And you can't blame the oil companies, either. They are doing what they are supposed to do, upholding their duty to their shareholders. Which means, they will only spend money on projects that meet or exceed their expected ROI. As a result, most oil companies, while forecasting slow production growth, actually are producing less and less barrels each year.
Relief will only come if the Government opens drilling in Alaska and in parts of the west here in the United States.
On the bright side, Becky Quick is hot.
Relief will only come if the Government opens drilling in Alaska and in parts of the west here in the United States.
On the bright side, Becky Quick is hot.
I agree with you. Can't blame the oil company by itself like other have said they are there to make money, you need to blame the market. If we are talking cars, then blame the manufacturers, also blame the consumers. I laugh at ads that say we now get 10-20% better mpg. Looks good on paper right? Well lets see, that truck got you 10mpg, so now you get 11 or 12, wow.
:tongue: This is why I bought my Fit last year, this is also why I rarely drive my SUV anymore and even if I wanted to sell it I wouldn't get squat, so it sits idle for those random emergencies that might come up where I need a truck.
I would think plotting a graph of whosale crude prices vs pump price over the last 10 years might be interresting,does someone have the skills to plot that data for us.It might help us to figure out how much if any comodity speculation and corprate markup/greed accounts for the increase in pump price.
I know the history of the crack spreads. It's actually pretty poor right now for the XOM's etc. of the world. There is no such thing as corporate 'greed' unless they have a monopoly, which is certainly not the case in the oil industry.
With all respect, I think everyone is wrong.
The price of oil has gone from $30 in 2003, to $70 in 2006, to $130 in 2008.
The value of the dollar hasn't dropped 50% in the last 2 years.
The worlds car driving population hasn't doubled in the last 2 years.
Those are not the reasons.
The price of oil has gone from $30 in 2003, to $70 in 2006, to $130 in 2008.
The value of the dollar hasn't dropped 50% in the last 2 years.
The worlds car driving population hasn't doubled in the last 2 years.
Those are not the reasons.
Switzerland is a "cheap" place for gas in Europe... we broke the 7.8$/gallon last week. First time ever: even inflation adjusted it is a all time high... there are a lot of less wealthy places in Europe where they pay 10$/gallon.
And the people complains a lot about it but in the end pay this and drive.
I guess the US people will get used to it, the only way to feel less discomfort is use less thirsty cars, carpooling and most important use public transport.
And the people complains a lot about it but in the end pay this and drive.
I guess the US people will get used to it, the only way to feel less discomfort is use less thirsty cars, carpooling and most important use public transport.
I think if the prices hit $12-$15 / gal in the US, people will start losing their minds. Most lower to middle class people can barely afford gas now! I foresee the crime rate skyrocketing if this actually takes place... home and bank robberies, cars being stolen u name it... this is definitely not good news.
It will also force people to change. It will hurt a lot in the beginning and then the demand will slowly start to decrease. This might take a few years of course. Lets hope these fuel cell cars are the next hybrids. I'm glad there are so many hybrids out there now but its just not enough.
It will also force people to change. It will hurt a lot in the beginning and then the demand will slowly start to decrease. This might take a few years of course. Lets hope these fuel cell cars are the next hybrids. I'm glad there are so many hybrids out there now but its just not enough.
As far as the real purchasing power of the $$... I belive it HAS decreased that much in the past two years. Go to Europe... Everything is 2x's as expensive to an American than it was two years ago. That is devaluation of the REAL PURCHASING POWER of the dollar... Even if here at home it doesn't seem that bad just yet. But give it a couple months. Every imported item will increase in expense from 20-50% on Walmarts shelves. If it cost more $$$'s to purchase them from abroad (it does now) that cost will sure as hell be passed on to the customer. Want proof? Price of milk. Tell me that the dollar hasn't decreased 50% in two years? Its probably more than that.
If its gas mileage you want... hybrids aren't the answer.
And the technology does exist. Were just friggin' ignorant in the states. Take cars in europe for example... VW Lupo TDi? 75mpg.
And that car has been that way for a decade now. Why aren't we importing those things here and telling prius owners their idiots?
We have an old Diesel Ford F150... Damn thing gets like 40mpg on the highway... On a recent episode of Nova on PBS, the looked at the car and where the technology was going. Our mileage has decreased steadily since the 1970's. Thats right... we've gone back in forward progress.
There was a recent article in Car and Driver comparing the prius to the new Audi A3 TDi. Audi was cheaper, better equiped, "faster", got 53 mpg AVERAGE compared to 37 from the prius, more fun to drive, better looking, and had better build quality.
Toyota just has the "hybrid" marketing but their produce sucks when it comes to fuel economy. Oh yea... the TDi was cleaner to the enviorment than the Prius. Go figure. A Diesel.
If its gas mileage you want... hybrids aren't the answer.
And the technology does exist. Were just friggin' ignorant in the states. Take cars in europe for example... VW Lupo TDi? 75mpg.
And that car has been that way for a decade now. Why aren't we importing those things here and telling prius owners their idiots?
We have an old Diesel Ford F150... Damn thing gets like 40mpg on the highway... On a recent episode of Nova on PBS, the looked at the car and where the technology was going. Our mileage has decreased steadily since the 1970's. Thats right... we've gone back in forward progress.
There was a recent article in Car and Driver comparing the prius to the new Audi A3 TDi. Audi was cheaper, better equiped, "faster", got 53 mpg AVERAGE compared to 37 from the prius, more fun to drive, better looking, and had better build quality.
Toyota just has the "hybrid" marketing but their produce sucks when it comes to fuel economy. Oh yea... the TDi was cleaner to the enviorment than the Prius. Go figure. A Diesel.
I agree. And people don't realize that hybrids have to have their batteries replaced. You're looking at $2-3,000 around 100,000 miles. Add in the timing belt, water pump, and clutch and a hybrid with 100,000 miles is going to cost more the continue driving than it's worth. They're basically going to be throw-away cars, FAR FAR worse on the environment than normal cars.
Again, I agree. 1985 Honda CRX. It was carburated and STILL got better gas mileage than any of our modern hybrids!!!!
this might be a good thing..... otherwise we're going to use up all the oil and not even have anything to lubricate machines when we do finally "convert" :tongue: they say what is left won't even last another 100 years (that's why we're miles out in the oceans pumping!)
i just can't believe our government and auto companies aren't pushing this even harder. we need to develop the technology faster so it can get cheaper faster. and wtf is going on where we can't have any sort of mass transportation. how nice would it be to have a few bullet trains to cut down on people driving and flying everywhere?
yeah, it sucks that we don't have any other options than to pay and have our money go to greedy mofos, but hopefully that will be enough to change things. as much as the price of gas has gone up, so has the popularity of the "green" campaign..... maybe we need gas to go to 10 bucks a gallon just to get something useful out of it.
i just can't believe our government and auto companies aren't pushing this even harder. we need to develop the technology faster so it can get cheaper faster. and wtf is going on where we can't have any sort of mass transportation. how nice would it be to have a few bullet trains to cut down on people driving and flying everywhere?
yeah, it sucks that we don't have any other options than to pay and have our money go to greedy mofos, but hopefully that will be enough to change things. as much as the price of gas has gone up, so has the popularity of the "green" campaign..... maybe we need gas to go to 10 bucks a gallon just to get something useful out of it.
I think there will also be a massive shift towards motorcycles and scooters. It has already started to occur in many areas with nicer weather. So many people live relatively close to work but cannot rely on public transportation (yet). Motorcycles are cheap enough you can buy it in addition to your car and it's hard not to get 50mpg on a motorcycle under decent conditions unless you just look for bikes with lousy fuel mileage.
Several friends of mine have bought scooters [although the aprilia models are a small fortune] that get 100-125mpg and they have twice as much fun going to where they need to. Most only go 40-50mph but last time I checked I was lucky to get up to 50mph on the freeway during rush hour in any big city.
I've been looking at an investment angle for a while but cannot find a particular scooter with increasing sales that isn't part of some big corporation.
Several friends of mine have bought scooters [although the aprilia models are a small fortune] that get 100-125mpg and they have twice as much fun going to where they need to. Most only go 40-50mph but last time I checked I was lucky to get up to 50mph on the freeway during rush hour in any big city.
I've been looking at an investment angle for a while but cannot find a particular scooter with increasing sales that isn't part of some big corporation.
If it were suddenly legal to smoke crack there is always going to be someone who thinks it is a good thing.
Give me a f'n break! You can't blame the oil companies? Exxon annonced record earnings AGAIN for last quarter...profiting over $11.6 billion dollars. "Upholding their duty to shareholders" is half of the problem with this country.
"Give me a f'n break! You can't blame the oil companies? Exxon annonced record earnings AGAIN for last quarter...profiting over $11.6 billion dollars. "Upholding their duty to shareholders" is half of the problem with this country."[/QUOTE]
It (profiting) is also what has transformed us and the rest of the free world from cave dwellers who are happy to have fire, to innovation that allows us to live a quality of life never imagined. What, the communists had it right?
It (profiting) is also what has transformed us and the rest of the free world from cave dwellers who are happy to have fire, to innovation that allows us to live a quality of life never imagined. What, the communists had it right?
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