'92 no start

[Doc308]

Yesterday, I was unable to start my car twice. Although I had total juice, the starter would not engage upon turning the ignition switch. After several attempte, it would start OK. It seems like a loose wire wire to the starter or the clutch no-start switch (?) as the battery is new and all of the ights/bells and whistles work when turning the igtion switch on.

Where are the starter and no-start switches located, so i can check the connections? Any other ideas as to what would cause such an intermittent problem? So far, the car has eventually started after several tries. Once the starter is engaged the car runs fine.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Although I had total juice

I alternate every other day, my juices. :tongue: One day it is orange juice the next day it is tomato juice followed by pineapple juice. Sometimes I mix up the sequence of juices, but one thing is consistent. Juice-n-rum is a great way to start the day. :biggrin:

Where are the starter and no-start switches located

As to the first item, are you asking where the starter is or where the starter switch is? The former is mounted on the engine and the latter is in the dash.....also known as the ignition switch. The “no-start-switch” is located on the clutch pedal assembly.

 

[hlweyl]

First thing I would check for is loose/dirty battery terminal connections. As battery cables age, they tend to "widen" out some.

 

[loNfastNSX]

THINGS TO CHECK

Starter
Main relay
Ground wires
Ignition switch

My 91 would not start and it turned out to be the ground that connects to the fire wall was loose. Once it was tight, no more problems. You may also want to do a search under starting problems, I found many threads on the subject.

Good luck.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Hi Doc,

First thing I would look at is the ground wire to the battery, they are notorious for stretching and making bad contact. Then I would do the ignition key "jiggle". If the dash lights flicker, order an ignition switch. Since multiple attempts of turning the key eventually worked, this sounds very likely.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Doc308]

To narrow things down a bit: the "jiggle test" passed--ie the dash lights don't flicker at all--stay on solidly. All the electrics work perfectly during the no-start condition ( I assume that this means that the battery connections are OK?). When I turn the key, there is just nothing going to the starter--no clicks, no nothin'. I eyeballed the no-start switch and the plunger seems to work smoothly and is in good contact with the clutch pedal. The firewall ground is very tight and the battery terminal connectors are clean and tight. The ignition and starter connectors w/i the fuse boxes are clean and tight also.

Once the car starts, it's is totally fine. I assume this means that the fuses are OK too (?). Once again this is a very infrequent occurence. But something is obviously not allowing juice to the starter. Are there other things to check ? Is there a starter relay in this car? I had a Jag once which did the eact same thing and it was the starter relay gone bad.

 

[Joe Gliksman]

I had this problem intermittently with my 92--suddenly it would be dead, not even a click, and then after several turns of the key, it would start and work for days. In my case, the wire was loose at the starter--finger loose actually--I couldn't believe it started at all. 14mm nut, I think--and fairly easy to get to.

 

[Doc308]

Joe--where do I get at that starter connector nut? Is that the wire which runs directly from the fuse box to the starter and is covered by a rubber cap?

 

[Joe Gliksman]

It has been a while, but I think the answer it yes--seems like there was a rubber cap. I could reach it by just sticking my hand down leaning into the engine bay.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

It is just under one of the large coolant hoses just ahead of the throttle body, but below it. In addition to the large screw terminal there is a push on connector for the selonoid and it is covered with a small rubber boot, It is a push on spade lug and I have had a few that were way too loose fitting, so I squeeze them to tighten them up.

If you can pull the boot back and check the tightness of that connection while you are in there, you may have a loose one.

Good Luck,
LarryB

 

[Doc308]

As always, thank you everyone for the help.

I have one oher question--where is the main relay located and would this have anything to do with a problem like this?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

The main relay controls the fuel system. Mainly fuel pump power. Since your issue is the starter will not turn, I think this is not a likely suspect.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Nsxdemon81]

Where exactly is the ground for the starter that you are talking about?

 

[ffffanman]

I just fixed my intermitant start problem.
It all seemed to start when I cleaned my battery terminals last year.
Turns out that was just a co ink e dink.
The problem was the smaller wire leading to the starter motor has loosened up and wasn't making a good contact from time to time. This is the small wire that has a nice black rubber cover over its female spade. Simply squeezed the spade so it was a little tighter, pushed it on and off the male spade a few times to scratch up the surfaces and tada!!!
Thanks for this thread to motivate me to find and fix the problem.
Thanks to Larry for the location of the smaller selonoid wire.
Trev

 

[NSXTech]

There is also a relay that must close in order for the starter to engage. It is a simple 4 prong relay that closes when the clutch pedal is depressed AND the alarm control unit is nominal. It is located on the right side of the large bracket that supports the cluster of control units behind the glove box.
This relay can be eliminated as a suspect (after you have the eliminated the other items mentioned here by our other friends) by shunting the relay either at the time of failure, if this is possible, or in advance of the failure to see if the failure re-occurs. If this seems to work, restore the correct wiring and make sure the problem comes back. This 'double blind' check is ness (IMO) in all electrical diagnosis in the absance of smoking wires, and especially with intermittant problems.

To shunt the relay-(MAJOR trade secret coming) Unplug the relay and look at its four lugs. You will notice that two are copper and two are brass. On ALL Honda (and some other Japanese brands) relays, the copper contacts are the load, and the brass are the signal (switch). Locate the two cavaties in the relay plug that correspond to the copper lugs, and shunt them with a wire with two connectors into the PLUG. This will not engage the starter, but it will allow the car to start normally regardless of clutch switch, alarm, or relay status (condition)

AS always, if this sounds like more than you should try, DON'T. Call a pro.

PM if you need more detail.
Good Luck
MB

 

[Nsxdemon81]

Just so i understand what it is your suggesting... Are you recommending bypassing the starter relay? If so is this a good idea, because if the relay is there, wouldn't honda put it for a reason? I'm sure taking it out to test isn't a bad idea, but permanently I don't know. Just wondering if it might lead to other problems down the road. On another note, i'm guessing that thin black wire you spoke of is the ground everyone is recommending to be checked? I also found an easy to check if your clutch switch isn't working. If you get to the starter relay behind the dash, it is pretty loud. The glove box does a good job of hiding the noise though. Its very easy to hear it open and close, so if you put your clutch down and you hear nothing its probally the clutch switch.
mike

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Mike,

In the context of NSXTech's post the relay bypass is for diagnostic purposes, not a plan for repair. I think it would be quite unusual(downright not gonna happen)for Mark to offer a hack or bypass as a fix.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Nsxdemon81]

lol ok, read it quick, guess i read it wrong.

 

[NSXTech]

demon, LB is correct, it was a test measure only. To answer your question, it would not cause any mechanical or electrical problems, but it could cause you to drive your car thru the garage wall when you reach in to JUST turn on the ign, but twist too far. (seen it) Or help a theif acquire your car (seen it)
So I guess leaving it bypassed (seen it) is a bad idea.

Good Q to ask, thanx

MB

 

[dukecali]

As in this case, the starter motor 's electrical current is causing a lot of sparks at initial starting. The function of relay is switching the heavy electical current load to starter mototr for ignition. Therfore the ignition switch would be protected.

Just think the relay is the "slave switch" and ignition key is "master switch".

To by bass the starter relay, you are taking risk of damage the ignition switch.

Just my 2 cents worth...

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Actually, in this specific case, this relay is not used to serve the purpose of handling current the ignition switch can not handle, although that is a typical use for them. Note it is called, in the curcuit, a starter "cut" relay. It's pupose is to disconnect the ignition switch "start" lead in the case of either the clutch not being depressed or the security system sensing a break-in, alarm going off.

Take a look at page 23-77 in the online service manual. You will see that the ignition switch lead directly does send current to the selinoid lead once the relay is closed. Remember the selinoid lead is a relatively low current curcuit. It is not the starter feed which can pass as much current as the battery can deliver once engaged. BTW, that lead is direct(unfused) from the battery.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[Doc308]

Well, after checking the starter , battery, solenoid, and ground connections, I had almost a month of no problem. HOWEVER, yesterday I got the same damn no-start scenerio twice.

New q's--how do I get at the starter relay behind the glove box. Do I need to totally remove the box--and if so, how do I remove it? Where exactly is the relay and how do I identify it? A previous post indicated that it was to the right whereas the diagram in the service manual highlights it on the left. I'm thinking of having this tested somewhere as another step in trying to resolve this issue. Any other ideas would be helpful.

By the way, the syptom was exactly the same as reported before--ie turn the key--no juice to the starter, but with all of the other electrics being perfectly fine.

 

[Doc308]

Any thoughts out there on my most recent Q's ? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Joe Gliksman]

Assume you already checked the wires at the starter? When I had the same problem exactly as you describe, it was a loose wire at the starter.

 

[NSXTech]

The glove box should come out. If you knew exactly where it was, and had long double jointed fingers, you could access the relay by removing only the hush panel.
Remove the black screws you see around the front edge of the box, including the one in the middle of the striker. Pull it out slowly- there are two connectors to unplug as you go.
The relay is on the right side of the bracket containing all the control units. It is small, black, with a brown shrouded plug containing four wires.

PM me if you would like help once you access it.
MB